TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

[Malacite]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

EDIT: Apparently, crack can be smoked. My mistake, carry on.

They found a way YM. They're that fucked up.

[Armando]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

Let's try to stay on topic though. The thread isn't for discussing how the dev team has disappointed you with content you weren't going to do anyways =P

Also, to avoid further requests: those of you that want to see the doujin cover that was being requested when the thread got started, just google "Nippon Practice." It's dead easy to find. Just look for Chun Li doing obscene things.

[Malacite]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

<.< I happen to know which one that was, you dirty punk :3

That avatar you have know looks like something out of Wind Waker. And for the record I actually did have every intention of attempting a Mythic (still do) since it doesn't require massive sums of gil like a relic.

[Vevau]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

It is worth mentioning that DRK gets a B- in Great Axe and can wield a lot of the heftiest Great Axes in the game and so should take this on board until they get a decent damaging WS in the form of Vorpal Scythe at 49.

Thank you for make my levelling of WAR and DRK so much easier! We Elvaan need all the accuracy we can get and by whatever means are necessary.

[Armando]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

It is worth mentioning that DRK gets a B- in Great Axe and can wield a lot of the hefitest Great Axes in the game and so should take this on board until they get a decent damaging WS in the form of Vorpal Scythe at 49.

This is most certainly true. A DRK is better off using Shield Break for a loooooong time. The only reason I didn't mention it is that the thread is WAR-focused and it's very hard to keep three two-handed weapons levelled up at the same time, but thanks for bringing it up.

We Elvaan need all the accuracy we can get and by whatever means are necessary.

That's false, base stats don't matter for anything except HP/MP. But you're welcome either way.

[Malacite]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

In the case of 2 handers, DEX to Acc is now on a 4:3 ratio so the "accuracy problems" we Elvaan supposedly have are pretty moot now.


In fact, they never even existed. It only appears that way because it takes so damn long to swing a scythe. So please stop perpetuating the lie.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

Responding stuff in OP instead of intervening pages; apologies in advance for the necro bump.

How to be an awesome WAR:

1) Use Shield Break

You MUST use a Great Axe and start fights with Shield Break, until at least Level 55. Even if you're /NIN. The reason is simple: Shield Break's Evasion Down (-40 Evasion) beats anything any other WS has to offer. It borders on broken. Giving the mob -40 Evasion is like giving everyone in your party +40 Accuracy. Since every 2 Acc you gain (or every 2 Evasion the mob loses) increases your hit rate by 1%, Shield Break will make everyone's hit rate jump up by 20% (e.g. if you were hitting 60% of the time, now you'll hit 80% of the time. That's actually a 33% improvement!)

Two questions.

1. Synched to Lv.28, I was getting 83.00% hit rate on WAR/NIN (pizza). Targets were mostly Yhoator Mandragora, with small number of Goblin Smithy and Goblin Pathfinder mixed in. (Marinara Pizza: Atk+20%, Acc+10%, HP+20.)

At bit higher at SAM33, fighting mostly Sand Beetle with no dispeller for its evasion buff, I managed 85% hit rate (pizza again) with Hasso full-time. I'd imagine that number would improve a bit with a dispeller. SAM36 fighting Siege Bats was 86.84% (pizza, but Seigan full time--jamming on the Third Eye macro).

Given that ~85% or even higher accuracy starting at ~Lv.28 seems often attainable for jobs using two-handed weapons, is Shield Break really so absolutely dominate all the way to Lv.55? Or is it more situational now, limited to parties with predominately one-handed weapon users on meat or evasive/IT++ targets? (I see plenty of people using sushi Lv.30+ now.)

FYI, The difference between Shield Break damage and Sturm Wind with my set up was ~50 vs. ~140 average at Lv.28. I needed the damage spikes to tank--the RNG on sushi was getting 87.6% ranged hit rate and pumping out 200+ damage barrages on mostly piercing weak targets--so elected to use Sturmwind after a few tries with Shield Break.

In any case, I don't see two-handers getting full use out of Shield Break in the Pizza Age. Plus, what kind of resist rate and effect duration are we talking about in typical exp parties?


2. What does /NIN have to do with using Shield Break? Or is that just saying should use Great Axe no matter which SJ in use? I think you mean the second case, but just want to be sure.

[Armando]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

Given that ~85% or even higher accuracy starting at ~Lv.28 seems often attainable for jobs using two-handed weapons, is Shield Break really so absolutely dominate all the way to Lv.55? Or is it more situational now, limited to parties with predominately one-handed weapon users on meat or evasive/IT++ targets? (I see plenty of people using sushi Lv.30+ now.)

I would still lean towards Shield Break if your hit rate or anyone else's in the party isn't close to capping. The lower WS damage will be made up for in part by WS'ing more often. But besides that there's also the fact that landing Acid Bolts is actually viable in the low-mid levels, and Shield Break makes it easier to do that. You do bring up an interesting point with the pizza though, it's been so long since I level a DD job that I haven't seen pizza in action yet. Worst case scenario, if the entire party is parsing high Acc (would be feasable with a BRD or COR) then Armor Break could be used instead.

It's a bit odd that your Shield Break would average at almost 1/3 of your Sturmwind, since Sturmwind is only 2 hits and as far as I know, it doesn't crit. Maybe Sturmwind gets a cRatio bonus. Were those averages pulled from a parse?

Plus, what kind of resist rate and effect duration are we talking about in typical exp parties?

It's been a while, but I'm fairly sure you can get Shield Break to stick for around 1 minute consistently in EXP. Giving exact numbers is hard though since there's no way to tell if you got a full resist other than waiting a long time, and it's also possible for the mob to die before Shield Break wears, and it's not like parsers track that kind of thing.

As for /NIN, I'm just emphasizing that Great Axe is the better weapon. People have this weird thing where they think that if they're /NIN, they have to Dual Wield, or are better off Dual Wielding.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

I would still lean towards Shield Break if your hit rate or anyone else's in the party isn't close to capping. The lower WS damage will be made up for in part by WS'ing more often. But besides that there's also the fact that landing Acid Bolts is actually viable in the low-mid levels, and Shield Break makes it easier to do that.

That particular party had a RNG with acid bolt, I think, and he certainly didn't need any my help landing those bolts. (Plus, I didn't have time to search for my R.Acc gear... Was a semi-LS party at late night desperate for tank, and I hadn't used WAR in forever--didn't even remember WAR can use crossbow.)

How close to capping are we talking about here? 90%? 85%? 80%?

It's a bit odd that your Shield Break would average at almost 1/3 of your Sturmwind, since Sturmwind is only 2 hits and as far as I know, it doesn't crit. Maybe Sturmwind gets a cRatio bonus. Were those averages pulled from a parse?

It seemed odd to me as well. The Sturmwind number was pulled from parser; 147 was the exact average. I started up the parser late, so only caught one Shield Break; it's number was 52, but that seemed right at normal range from eyeballing/memory compared to the previous few, not that I did enough of that WS to be statistically valid, I'm sure.

It's been a while, but I'm fairly sure you can get Shield Break to stick for around 1 minute consistently in EXP.

If it lasts that long, it may be more worthwhile. However, WAR/NIN has so few tools for tanking, though, I'm not sure if I would give up Sturmwind even for an one minute evasion down effect. (If I'm (co-)tanking, that is.)

Any info on the resist rate? I assume it can be completely resisted, but does it also have partial resist, and in what form?

[Armando]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

That particular party had a RNG with acid bolt, I think, and he certainly didn't need any my help landing those bolts. (Plus, I didn't have time to search for my R.Acc gear... Was a semi-LS party at late night desperate for tank, and I hadn't used WAR in forever--didn't even remember WAR can use crossbow.)

How close to capping are we talking about here? 90%? 85%? 80%?

Not that I've done the math, but I'd say anything higher than 85%. If you had a RNG for Acid Bolts and you were tanking then odds are you really were better off with Sturmwind after all.

Any info on the resist rate? I assume it can be completely resisted, but does it also have partial resist, and in what form?

Partial resists lower the duration. If I remember correctly the unresisted duration is 3 minutes, so even if you get a partial resist, odds are it'll stick a reasonable amount of time. What really sucks is when it gets resisted outright.

Out of curiosity how much of your total damage comes from normal hits and how much comes from WS?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

Out of curiosity how much of your total damage comes from normal hits and how much comes from WS?

9321 melee, 3306 WS.

[Armando]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

I see. I asked 'cuz, hate issues aside, how big of an impact the Shield Break VS Sturmwind choice has on your overall damage depends on how much of it is coming from normal hits and how much comes from WS. In this case your performance wouldn't be affected as much as if your damage was split 50-50. I think that kind of 3:1 split is pretty common at low levels, when WS don't chop off as much of an EXP mob's HP.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

Hmm. 3:1 ratio isn't always normal at lower levels, I think, at least not for all jobs. The ratio vary quite a bit from job to job, party to party, and player to player, IMO. Also, 50:50 split would be pretty unusual at any level, IMO; the closest I've seen lately is a SAM/NIN doing about 3:2 at Lv.62.

Double Thrust, Sturmwind, THF SA Fast Blade/Combo are probably the top tier DD WS's at Lv.30 and below. (Well, THF aside, one would need decent accuracy to get those big numbers, but I think it's established now that ~85% hit rate is a possible and realistic scenario.)

Going over some of parses, combing out the physical DD's output:

Lv.66
DRK/NIN: 31638/9794
DRK/SAM: 37400/5333
SAM/WAR: 47941/10640

Lv.62
RNG/NIN: 43410(r)/25639(ws)
WAR/NIN: 16797/6542
THF/NIN: 27456/13313
SAM/NIN: 31418/20772

Lv.28
WAR/NIN: 9321/3306
WAR/NIN: 8641/2657
RNG/NIN: 9283(r)/1681(m)/2559(ws)

Lv.66
WAR/NIN: 43245/25130
BLU/NIN: 25300(m)/25504(s)/5936(ws)

Lv.30 (only caught 11 fights)
MNK/WAR: 3913/560
SAM/WAR: 4364/2116 (was tanking, too.)
SAM/DNC: 2171/69 (may have to call him healer more than DD)

Lv.38
MNK/WAR: 11246/2726
SAM/DRG: 13111(m)/1706(a)/4927(ws)
SAM/WAR: 7282/2628 (he was tanking)

Lv.36
WAR/NIN: 11419/2870
NIN/WAR: 5313/1172
SAM/DRG: 14066(m)/1502(a)/5640(ws)
DRK/THF: 10961/5141

Lv.36 (short party)
NIN/WAR: 2387/411
SAM/DRG: 6460(m)/399(r)/684(a)/2627(ws)
DRK/THF: 2378(m)/240(r)/832(ws)/217(s) (replacement for DRG)
BST/NIN: 2393/483
DRG/???: 1932(m)/465(a)/396(ws) (left party)
Wyvern: 923/381

[Malacite]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

The only job that has any business using Sturmwind over Shield Break is DRK, and that's only every 6 minutes.

[Celeal]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

IMHO, at the right timing, WAR/THF with SA + Sturmwind once or twice in every exp. chain in between exp. chain was useful to secure chain #5... at least that was common before ToAU was introduced.

Between level 45 ~ 59, Shield Break or Armor Break suits well when Berserk or Aggressor is inactive, unless the party's melee is really in trouble and need the Break WS.

After level 60+, WAR/SAM should have no problem to insert Full/Shield/Armor Break in between Raging Rush(s). When Berserk or Aggressor is not ready, Mediate + Full Break, and then add a Raging Rush is handy.