Summoner/White mage GAH!

[HairdewX]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

I just think it's hilarious how adamant some people are in trying to get people to conform to what is "acceptable" and "un-acceptable". Perhaps a reflection of society?

It is a game, after all...

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

Changing One's play style just because of the Many, is nothing short of a cop-out.

Cop-out? No. Compromise? Yes.

Compromise is not always a bad thing. If you join a 3-on-3 pick-up basketball game, and 5 people want to play half court while you want to play full court, it is not a "cop-out" to agree to a half court game.

[Akashimo]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

I just think it's hilarious how adamant some people are in trying to get people to conform to what is "acceptable" and "un-acceptable". Perhaps a reflection of society?

It is a game, after all...

Makes me think of this quote

My game will be completely unfair.

There was another one from that episode along the lines of, "Humans show their true nature when playing a game" or something to that meaning.

[Omniblast]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

And IfritnoItazura, I turn down every pt offer I get on my SMN/NIN. If you are on Hades, I'll show you what an Insane SMN/NIN can do. Trust me, I wish my DRK can do 1/4th what my SMN/NIN can do and survive.

Rofl the only reason your getting invited because they want you to sub /whm so you can main heal because there's no other whm around! rofl!!!!

[Akashimo]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

Rofl the only reason your getting invited because they want you to sub /whm so you can main heal because there's no other whm around! rofl!!!!

Really, was that tone called for?

[Omniblast]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

Really, was that tone called for?

Yeah it was a bit over the top, but honestly, is this thread is just too much.
I have to find some humor here. After all, you can't spell slaughter without laughter! hahaha~~!

[HairdewX]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

I have found some humor in that a single person that simply does not want to conform to mob rule can cause a considerable amount of stress for others

[Shirai]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

I truely wonder reading a couple of replies..

Hasn't the true discussion ended 7 pages ago?

[HairdewX]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

I truely wonder reading a couple of replies..

Hasn't the true discussion ended 7 pages ago?

The true discussion didn't start until page 2

[Mhurron]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

The true discussion didn't start until page 2

Since this is page 8 and the 'discussion' ended pretty much when it started, that would be 7 pages ago.

[Omniblast]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

Page 8? it's page 4 for me., wth is going on with the paging system?

[HairdewX]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

Since this is page 8 and the 'discussion' ended pretty much when it started, that would be 7 pages ago.

That depends on what you think the 8 pages worth of discussion is actually about.

[Celeal]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

The party has actualy said that if i summon, i will be kicked. They wanted me to be a healer even though they had a perfectly capable white mage.

If this is really true, I would leave the party faster than the party leader press the kick button. However, whenever I party with SMN in exp. parties, or any other jobs, I expect the party member understand his role and know what he is doing.

I may sound harsh, but how am I suppost to work with SMN/BLM as a team if the SMN/BLM does not even know his role and what he is doing?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

Changing One's play style just because of the Many, is nothing short of a cop-out.

I guess I failed to convey yet again that you're free to solo as you see fit.

Could this be the root of all the hostility? SMNs that have reached "End Game" as a healer, I ask you, when you first read about SMN adv jobs, what did you think SMN was?

WHM44 here. I happen to like main healing, among other things. SMN is not so much an "adv" job as an "Extra Job"--i.e. unlockable. What do I think it is? It's a hybrid job mixing support role and DD when used correctly, and can take on the healer role with /WHM.

If you're actually interested in my opinion of SMN:

What I REALLY think of SMN

Note that Jobs aren't very distinctive from one another at lower levels; many melee jobs especially suffer from that. That's why a "Suggested Lv." is given for each Job--how far to take a Job in order to get a feel for how it would be like later on.

The "Minimal Support Job(s)" are just the subjob(s) needed to reach the suggested levels; if taking the job to 75, likely others would be needed. (The major support job for each is listed under "Main Support Job(s)", and they are needed for exp'ing and/or end game.)

SMN ((Summoner))
Suggested Lv: 25
Role(s): Support, Healer, Damage Dealer, Solo'er.
Minimal Support Job(s): /WHM
Main Support Job(s): /WHM
Description:
Summoner is difficult to get a handle on. It (slowly) gains many useful support Blood Pacts as it levels, but it does not have any Refresh like capability. Its Avatars can open/close any skillchain, but generally not for great deal of damage. It can also Magic Burst for respectable damage, but not at all levels. It has a huge MP pool for healing, but is capped at Cure III from /WHM. It's a good addition for a balanced party with everything already, though it's usually brought in as a main healer. It can solo ably on Bomb and Worm type of monsters outside of parties for experience points.

A long, rewarding growth curve and a diverse set of abilities makes SMN ideal for players looking for a challenge. Lv.25 is recommended; at that level, its ability includes tier II elemental magic BP's (Lv.10), Aerial Armor (Lv.25) buff, Lunar Cry (Lv.21) debuff, the ability to open and close all Lv.2 skillchain, and Cure II from /WHM (Lv.22). Those are just the tip of a SMN's eventual power, but already cover all the basics with examples of useful buff, debuff, healing, skillchain, and Magic Burst.

Since a SMN is overwhelmingly dependent on its Avatar, getting as many Avatar as possible before partying is a good idea. Certainly all the Celestial Avatars (Ifrit, Shiva, Garuda, Titan, Ramuh, and Leviathan) should be obtained, and Fenrir is highly recommend. Equipment wise, it's hMP/MP gear, and elemental staves (Lv.51) to save on perpetuation cost. Soloing SMN should obtain the HQ Light Staff, Apollo's Staff, and enmity reduction gear as soon as possible.

Oh, I've taught a few SMN's to skillchain before I unlocked the job myself. I don't believe SMN's role is "cure bot only", and in fact demand they be more useful than that.

If the SMN was defined as /WHM only, why not go play WHM main? Wouldn't that make more sense!?

Again, it's just about efficiency. Same reason PLD go with /WAR for most levels, same reason BRD's tend to use /WHM for most situations. And again, solo as you please, just don't deny /WHM is good is, and it is what new SMN's should have ready for use.

And IfritnoItazura, I turn down every pt offer I get on my SMN/NIN.

Good.

If you are on Hades, I'll show you what an Insane SMN/NIN can do.

Oh, I think I can guess. Utusemi is more reliable than Blink, so you don't get hit much on carby/Fenrir re-summon. But, you'd have no Stoneskin, bar- spells, or Shell to mitigate bomb explosion/Goblin bomb toss, or worm's Stonega spells.

You'd also spend a little more money on consumables (Prism Powder and Silent Oil, for starters), and have a little less MP buffer. Likely, you'd also believe Utsusemi is terrific because you'd lose enmity for every shadow consumed. (While true, it's not much enmity.)

Did I leave out anything major? (BTW, I've duo'ed with a BST friend on WHM/NIN before--pretty sure I understand the basics of /NIN.)

[Freedan]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

IfritnoItazura

Nope, the main reason why I'm subing NIN for Dual-Wield, Utsusemi is just an extra bonus.

SMN gets access to very nice +evasion gears

Bastokan Dagger +2 acc/+2evasion
Republic Dagger +2 acc/+3evasion
Compound Eye Circlet +5
Scentless Armlets +5
Martial Slacks +3
Air Solea +4
Mythril Earring +1x2 +6
Jack-o'-Lantern +10 acc/+10evasion

My other equipment that are "odd" on a mage job

Spike Neclace +3 str/+3dex
Courage Ring x2 +4 str
I'll switch to Hume Male RSE (+3 str/+3 dex) gloves depending on how much the mob is hitting me. Same goes for the Mythril Earrings +1, I'll switch to Beetle Earrings +1 if the mob isn't hitting me much.

Reason why I don't use Astrals is that I rather have th HP and +4 str.

with /nin I don't need powder, Tonko does the job just fine and I can use it at level 18 SMN, compared to level 50 with Invis. You can use Uts at level 24, Blink at level 38.
You'll have to be level 66 to use Reraise, only 60 for reraise hairpin.

I've read all the guides for SMN, and I chuck them out the window. I'm making this up as I go because playing an unpopular job combination means that there aren't any guides I can follow.

You can't make a /NIN or any other combination and follow the path/gear of a /WHM, it just won't work.

My tactics:

Uts goes up
Summons Garuda
/Assult
/pet "Claw" <bt>
I join with daggers, yes daggers, swinging
If I lose 2 shadows, recast Uts
The mob is normally dead before it gets pass my second set of Shadows.

If the mob isn't dead when I have 100 tp and BP is up, I can SC with Garuda using Gust Slash.

As a new player, I soloed Rank 2-3 Dragon fight as a Great Sword War/Thf when others told me that it was "impossible". To most of you its just Rank 2-3 dragon fight, yawn. Do the fight solo and tell me how it feels.

Trail Blazing your own path is much more rewarding than simply following some one else path.

(Excitment) (Yes, please)