Summoner/White mage GAH!

[Aushi]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

Thank you Freedan.

Im a new/returning player at 26 blm right now and have been dabating with myself over wether to go smn/blm like i wanted or obey the SMN guides all over the internets. Luckily, i found this and now im not gonna' cop out.

FREEEEDOM!!!!1!


Also, I really don't understand all the personel attacks being thrown at the /blm in here. Try /grow-up

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

been dabating with myself over wether to go smn/blm like i wanted or obey the SMN guides all over the internets. Luckily, i found this and now im not gonna' cop out.

Go for it--outside of parties. No one would care if you're SMN/BLM as long as you're soloing.

* * *

Had a Lv.66-ish SMN in Colibri party who had avatar out melee'ing and doing (mostly) Blood Pact: Rage in party the other night. He and his avatars togather marginally to out damage the DRG's Wyvern (7% vs. 6%? lol), but lost out to the damage output of a PLD on mostly defensive gear, big time. That's a PLD who was nearly Flashed a quarter of the time, BTW, with the resulting terrible melee accuracy.

Later on, someone reminded him that a SMN/WHM can Cure. Then, he actually became useful. Would've been better if he also used support BP's more often, but at least he pulled his own weight.

How much more damage do you supposed a SMN/BLM can do compared to SMN/WHM at that level?

* * *

Be different? Sure, why not.

Be ineffective? Get out of my party.

[emeraldpearl]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

i am a lvl 31 SMN 15 WHM and yes i feel the stress of having to cure when you really want to summon, but in all fairness its tough shit. If you wish to solo then yes nuke what ever you want but when it comes down to it from 1-75 your pretty much a sub/main healer for parties. if you dont like that then you should change jobs because your in for one hell of a ride if you carry on the way you are.

[Silent Howler]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

I'm currently 24 SMN, and have been asked if I could main heal, but all it took was something like "well I don't have Cure II yet so that might be a problem" and they always responded reasonably. I've never had to actually play as main healer yet. Backup healer, yes, but that's something I can handle.

Just make it clear that even though you can heal (because you have an MP pool) doesn't mean you will be effective enough.

[Rain_Blade]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

Thank you Freedan.

Im a new/returning player at 26 blm right now and have been dabating with myself over wether to go smn/blm like i wanted or obey the SMN guides all over the internets. Luckily, i found this and now im not gonna' cop out.

FREEEEDOM!!!!1!


Also, I really don't understand all the personel attacks being thrown at the /blm in here. Try /grow-up

The thread is dead. On another note, when you actually think about, no job subs blm over whm in a party except the White Mage itself. The reason people ~would like~ Red Mage, Bard, Summoner, and Black Mage (sometimes Corsair too) with White Mage sub is because they can backup the main healer. The same rules apply to tanks usually. People ~would like~ a war with a nin sub to backup tank (plus people like dual wield anyhow). People ~would like~ to have some of the melee jobs with war sub to backup tank. It's pretty much a battle between FUN and NEEDS FOR OTHERS.

Also...weren't you the person who bumped another dead thread that was about a guy who wanted to release his frustration a bit by telling us about a guy on his server named Fearkiller? Anyway, you have all the information you need on these posts + informative FFXI websites.

[Aushi]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

The thread is dead. On another note, when you actually think about, no job subs blm over whm in a party except the White Mage itself. The reason people ~would like~ Red Mage, Bard, Summoner, and Black Mage (sometimes Corsair too) with White Mage sub is because they can backup the main healer. The same rules apply to tanks usually. People ~would like~ a war with a nin sub to backup tank (plus people like dual wield anyhow). People ~would like~ to have some of the melee jobs with war sub to backup tank. It's pretty much a battle between FUN and NEEDS FOR OTHERS.

Also...weren't you the person who bumped another dead thread that was about a guy who wanted to release his frustration a bit by telling us about a guy on his server named Fearkiller? Anyway, you have all the information you need on these posts + informative FFXI websites.

Actually, I don't think this thread was dead, i mean there's hardly any info on these forums about smn subs besides whm so we should talk about it. Also, I feel like I had something to contribute to this discussion as a future smn facing this same dilemma.

And yeah that was me, but re-read the last 5 posts before mine in that thread....i think it was pretty funny and worth a giggle from the forum's browsers. that has nothing to do with this though?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

I'm currently 24 SMN, and have been asked if I could main heal, but all it took was something like "well I don't have Cure II yet so that might be a problem" and they always responded reasonably.

So generous of them, but you're still sub-par: Cure II is WHM11, and you should have it as soon as you hit SMN22/WHM11. Definitely should have it, by the time you are SMN24/WHM.

Also, I feel like I had something to contribute to this discussion as a future smn facing this same dilemma.

SMN/BLM is not a useful contribution, as far as I can tell...

Not that you can't use /BLM if you really want to, just please do not arrive in party like that.

Edit:

On another note, when you actually think about, no job subs blm over whm in a party except the White Mage itself. The reason people ~would like~ Red Mage

Actually, RDMs get a lot of benefit out of /BLM; Sleepga, Escape, Elemental Seal are all very handy at times, and Conserve MP is good. (My own preference/default is RDM/WHM, but RDM/BLM can be the better choice given a competent tank and WHM, especially at a dangerous camp.)

[Rain_Blade]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

Actually, I don't think this thread was dead, i mean there's hardly any info on these forums about smn subs besides whm so we should talk about it. Also, I feel like I had something to contribute to this discussion as a future smn facing this same dilemma.

And yeah that was me, but re-read the last 5 posts before mine in that thread....i think it was pretty funny and worth a giggle from the forum's browsers. that has nothing to do with this though?

It's been talked about in countless threads. Also, the thread is dead. The post before yours was on June 9. After that, your post is today of August 24. If a thread hasn't been posted in for over a month, then it's already considered done away with. The things have been discussed. No one else was interested in saying anything else. If you had made a new topic about something similar as to why is it such a big deal for you to such blm then it wouldn't have been a problem to answer. The pages had enough information for you.

For the other thread you bumped, you're right. It doesn't have anything to do with this. It has something to do with you. Meaning, you bumped 2 dead threads. Why am I saying all this? To save people from repeating the same things over and over again when there is already something to read in the thread that has the same thing.

Actually, RDMs get a lot of benefit out of /BLM; Sleepga, Escape, Elemental Seal are all very handy at times, and Conserve MP is good. (My own preference/default is RDM/WHM, but RDM/BLM can be the better choice given a competent tank and WHM, especially at a dangerous camp.)

Oh yeah you're right. X_X /em double slaps self.

[Silent Howler]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

So generous of them, but you're still sub-par: Cure II is WHM11, and you should have it as soon as you hit SMN22/WHM11. Definitely should have it, by the time you are SMN24/WHM.

lol, well I obviously meant that for when I was below lvl 22. Afterwards you have to come up with new excusses.

[Taskmage]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

Let's not harass people about bumping old threads so long as they're making meaningful discourse. Not to get onto anyone in particular, but lately if someone makes a thread about something that's already been discussed it's "search function noob" whereas if someone searches for a thread on what they want to talk about and posts in it it's "zomg necro." So long as it's not stupid and useless like that "lol no comment" bump, let's just let it go ...

I think everything's pretty much been covered regarding how bad blm sub is .. For anyone that doesn't have native elemental magic skill, the damage and accuracy of your nukes is going to be absolute crap after about level 20. And even if it wasn't, you're still not doing yourself any favors by spending your mp on nukes instead of avatar perpetuation. Let's say you spend 18 mp on Aero and it does 50 damage. That 18 mp could've paid for 18 seconds of Fenrir perpetuation, during which he could've swung at the enemy 4 times for 15 damage a shot. I'm just pulling numbers out of the air here, but you must see my point: you're just trading damage for damage, and as you level up you can expect your nukes to become worse and worse in terms of mp-damage ratio. And you WILL be running out of mp, so it is a choice in terms of how you spend your mana. You can't make full use of both.

[HairdewX]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

I honestly don't mind main as a SMN. My MP pool is extremely large (Taru ftw!)and my hMP is pretty high.

The avatars can also be a big help when it comes to healing.

Carbuncle's healing ward's + Cure II or III can offer a rather large heal everytime the bloodpact timer is up, and at less aggro because Carby takes part of the aggro.

Leviathan's Spring Water is very nice, especially when fighting mobs that do AOE attacks. You can even combine it with a curaga, if the pt gets too low and you are feeling daring Lev heals for more than your curaga, so he should gain the aggro before you do. Now if he dies and the tanks can't get it back... :D

[Nuriko]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

The only thing I could think of as helping from /BLM is Aspir ... but by then your level is high enough that using a sub-only skill is REALLY going to hurt, and you're probably using more MP than you'll gain.

[Silent Howler]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

Quoting older post to show just how useful Blm sub is...

Oh yes I did try blm sub for smn at level 60. I subbed blm because I was warping to my home point and I forgot to change subs. You know how useful that sub was? Well let's just say it was damn lucky that there was a whm and a rdm in the party with me. Blm sub did maybe 30 damage on a magic burst. that's pathetic. I could melee harder with the staff.

[Omniblast]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

Wow. I really don't know what to say, except maybe sorry, I must have been pissed those few days.

Back to the topic at hand. There isn't much to contribue to this thread anymore. There are guides out there that teach you to solo, and even if you do solo, you'll end up subbing... guess what... whm. (actually nin is a good sub vs. imps at 75, but vs. bomb type mobs, whm is a lot better.)

We tried. All of us experienced summoners tried to help. We really did.

I hope that by level 75, you would have learned how to play your job, how to work together with your linkshell and parties. And that somehow you find acceptance and peace in your little world.

[Aushi]

Re: Summoner/White mage GAH!

I think the problem is that many players instinctively equate that Mage = Healer and only melees are DD. Almost all the melee classes are DD with the exception of a few tanks. BLM and SMN are supposed to be DD so why not sub a job that would help the main job achieve this goal? People should invite WHM if they need a healer not a DD like DRK or BLM or SMN. Unless though that specific SMN wants to go /whm and is trying to achieve that goal in parties.