Enfeebling colibri 61-66 ?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Enfeebling colibri 61-66 ?

This is more or less the whole crux of the /DD vs. /NIN debate, when done properly /DD comes out ahead not only in XP/hr, but in damage taken, simply because things are not alive long enough to TP more than twice, and generally only one of those will be a Pecking Flurry.

That's what I've been reading, but since my LS cannot put up one of those 'proper' /DD frontline parties, I don't have a parse to show me the damage taken for that setup. (We have like two extremely strong DDs, and bunch of good-but-not-full-endgame-geared ones. lol. No RDM with 2 tick Auto-Refresh, either, though I assume that's not a requirement)

As BRD, I've been in a few JP majority parties where things do die so fast that I think it may be possibly true (or at least the damage/min is not that much greater), but you know the JP players--all /NIN frontline, all the time. (Plus, they prefer Mamool Ja over Greater Colibri.) So, I remain skeptical, but open to the idea.

Which is why I ask for actual numbers (from people who had working /DD parties).

you aren't going to plow through things with 72 SAM/NINs, and 73 THFs, etc.

Well, that wasn't the plan. Getting the LS member's SAM to 75 was the the plan. heh. (Which we did earlier tonight.)

For the record I do also usually 2box my g/f's WHM to haste myself and toss out extra cures when I plan on asking for Refresh(Rune Chopper) and fulltiming Hasso, though the last 2 pickup RDMs have told me that they were fine on MP and it was unecessary.

I'd prefer no outside party help; most people do not have a two-box WHM option. I'd like to see a parse of only six people, if possible. (Well, only interested in "damage taken / minute", to be honest.)

Edit: I should have also pointed out that I'm assuming the healer is in fact being worked down to the bottom of their MP pool often, but really they should be. Like I said, everyone needs to be on board to go all-out.

I actually dislike this; much rather the main healer sit on 300+ MP (unless Convert is up) at all times, just in case things go wrong. Maybe I'm just overly cautious.

[Zoltar]

Re: Enfeebling colibri 61-66 ?

15 seconds is a massive exaggeration to start, lol, especially at that level. Again, if you were killing that fast you would not see broken chains, and I'd need to see some photographic proof of a 60ish party hitting chain 200.

Please tell me how long you think it takes to kill one of these mobs @ 62 (because I think 62 is the best starting point for them)

In a conventional party, you're correct. In a melee burn, the mobs are usually dead in 15-20 seconds. Anyone else have an opinion on this?

Colibri attack fast as hell and strip shadows like no other. Elegy is enough to slow them down while you SC the hell outta them when possible.

[Callisto]

Re: Enfeebling colibri 61-66 ?

That's what I've been reading, but since my LS cannot put up one of those 'proper' /DD frontline parties, I don't have a parse to show me the damage taken for that setup. (We have like two extremely strong DDs, and bunch of good-but-not-full-endgame-geared ones. lol. No RDM with 2 tick Auto-Refresh, either, though I assume that's not a requirement)

As BRD, I've been in a few JP majority parties where things do die so fast that I think it may be possibly true (or at least the damage/min is not that much greater), but you know the JP players--all /NIN frontline, all the time. (Plus, they prefer Mamool Ja over Greater Colibri.) So, I remain skeptical, but open to the idea.

Which is why I ask for actual numbers (from people who had working /DD parties).

I will try to get some if I can get a proper LS party together soon, I just moved to kParser recently, before I was using DirectParse and not tracking defensive stats. And for the record we've also successfully pulled it off at MMJSP, the setup being COR/WAR BRD/NIN WHM/SCH WAR/SAM SAM/WAR DRK/SAM, bringing in a shade over 30k/hr(per ExpWatch, I'm personally skeptical on the accuracy of that plugin, but that's what I got from it). Though like I said it involves all 6 people, we tried it a couple weeks later with only one member being different(a weaker SAM who had just hit 74 and was /NIN playing a more conservative style) and it went pretty poorly.

I'd prefer no outside party help; most people do not have a two-box WHM option. I'd like to see a parse of only six people, if possible. (Well, only interested in "damage taken / minute", to be honest.)

Yeah I understand that, like I said it's not really something that's needed, the only time I really do it is when I feel like using Rune Chopper, simply so I can ask the RDM for only Refresh instead of both Refresh and Haste. For actual curing most times the RDM would beat me to curing myself anyways and I would be overcuring to the point that it wasn't really necessary.

I actually dislike this; much rather the main healer sit on 300+ MP (unless Convert is up) at all times, just in case things go wrong. Maybe I'm just overly cautious.

You most definitely are, bear in mind that if everyone is going full-tilt, there's a pretty limited amount of mobs that can even be alive at one time to even cause some sort of emergency scenario. As a healer I expect to use every last drop relatively often, and rest for a minute or so between Haste cycles.

[Havelock]

Re: Enfeebling colibri 61-66 ?

In a conventional party, you're correct. In a melee burn, the mobs are usually dead in 15-20 seconds. Anyone else have an opinion on this?

More like 45 seconds in my experience. (This was @61 the other night.) Depends on a lot of things, but I'm assuming average players, average gear, probably without a BRD...which describes my static and most pickup groups I find.

Mobs can stay alive long enough to dish out several pecking flurries, enough to put the PLD in danger. Thus my original question: I want to enfeeble these suckers, but I was concerned about the spell mimicry. In my last party, I made sure to Slow each mob, and I definitely think it helped. I didn't try Dia since I'm not at 64 yet for Erase.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Enfeebling colibri 61-66 ?

Please tell me how long you think it takes to kill one of these mobs @ 62 (because I think 62 is the best starting point for them)

In a conventional party, you're correct. In a melee burn, the mobs are usually dead in 15-20 seconds. Anyone else have an opinion on this?

Just no. lol. Get a parser. You'll see.

Even at merit levels, not all parties can kill in 20 seconds. In fact, the vast majority of the merit parties I've been in could not.

Colibri attack fast as hell and strip shadows like no other. Elegy is enough to slow them down while you SC the hell outta them when possible.

Intentional SC in melee burn while fighting a mob family known for resetting TP? You serious?

And for the record we've also successfully pulled it off at MMJSP, the setup being COR/WAR BRD/NIN WHM/SCH WAR/SAM SAM/WAR DRK/SAM, bringing in a shade over 30k/hr(per ExpWatch, I'm personally skeptical on the accuracy of that plugin, but that's what I got from it).

ExpWatch is junk for discussing sustained, average exp/hour over the course of a two to three hour period; pretty sure its number is just a moving average or weighted moving average with a small time window.

I look forward to numbers from an actual parse. heh.

You most definitely are, bear in mind that if everyone is going full-tilt, there's a pretty limited amount of mobs that can even be alive at one time to even cause some sort of emergency scenario. As a healer I expect to use every last drop relatively often, and rest for a minute or so between Haste cycles.

I get the concept, but multiple links when you run dry and Convert is down is just too dangerous. (A somewhat funny alternative scenario is when Convert is up but the RDM is at 200 HP from cure dumping.) Nothing kills the exp/hour faster than a KO or a wipe.

[Zoltar]

Re: Enfeebling colibri 61-66 ?

Just no. lol. Get a parser. You'll see.

Intentional SC in melee burn while fighting a mob family known for resetting TP? You serious?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Feather Tickle is a TP-based move from Colibri, correct? If you kill it fast enough only 1 of your DD's will get hit with it. I see DRGs using penta thrust on these guys all the time and others doing self-SC's. Why the heck not?

[Callisto]

Re: Enfeebling colibri 61-66 ?

Intentional SC in melee burn while fighting a mob family known for resetting TP? You serious?

Not to mention a mob family known for resisting the living bejesus out of magic/SC damage. Havelok had a much closer estimate with 45~ seconds.

[Mezlo]

Re: Enfeebling colibri 61-66 ?

agreed, ~45 secs

[Firewind]

Re: Enfeebling colibri 61-66 ?

I actually dislike this; much rather the main healer sit on 300+ MP (unless Convert is up) at all times, just in case things go wrong. Maybe I'm just overly cautious.

I don't think I've ever been allowed to have more than 200+ MP on my WHM. Pick up groups tend to get whiny if the WHM actually dares to ask to rest for a minute to get a chunk of MP back when Sublimation still needs building up. Usually I have to pretend to go AFK just to be able to get a bit of a pool back.

If the party has a BRD and COR who actually know what they're doing though...Wow that is fun and it lets me show off what a WHM/SCH can really do when able to go full tilt with the rest of the group.

Intentional SC in melee burn while fighting a mob family known for resetting TP? You serious

Wouldn't they also reflect back the MB damage and be fed a ton of TP by a bunch of multi hit weapon skills all hitting at once?

[Armando]

Re: Enfeebling colibri 61-66 ?

Wouldn't they also reflect back the MB damage and be fed a ton of TP by a bunch of multi hit weapon skills all hitting at once?

Short answer: No.

Full answer: WS only give TP to the mob on the swings that give the user back full TP, so they only give 1 hit's worth of TP, 2 if dual wielding or using H2H. If the first hit(s) misses the WS feeds 0 TP even if other hits landed.

But yeah SC'ing Colibri is like meleeing slimes. Possible but not very effective. They're so resistant to magic in general that I can barely stick Shield Break unless they land threnodies and Ninjutsu on the fuckers.

[Firewind]

Re: Enfeebling colibri 61-66 ?

*nods* As you can see I play jobs that don't feed tons of TP to the mob (WHM, COR) or jobs that simply laugh at most TP moves for whatever reason (WHM: Stoneskin, Flash, Barspells. PLD: Flash, Shield Bash, Sentinel) so I wasn't too sure.Thanks for clearing it up.

[Armando]

Re: Enfeebling colibri 61-66 ?

No prob. I can see how you'd think otherwise, considering BLU spells give TP on a hit-by-hit basis.

[Firewind]

Re: Enfeebling colibri 61-66 ?

Yeah one of my main duoing partners was a BLU main (BLU/NIN and WHM/NIN is a very fun duo against Imps btw) which is why I made that assumption

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Enfeebling colibri 61-66 ?

Was the 45 second figure from parsing, or from eyeballing? I still find it a bit hard to believe fights at Lv.61 won't last over a minute.

* * *

If you kill it fast enough only 1 of your DD's will get hit with it.

To SC, though, need two DDs at 100%.

Say, two SC people are at 80% TP, and one of them got TP erased. Does his SC partner wait until 180%? If you answer yes, then it's not a WS spam party.

Nevermind that the Colibri resist magic damage (MDB trait, to start with), but it's silly to even suggest orchestrating SC as a mean to kill faster when you start off with the assumption of "melee burn on colibri".

[Laynton]

Re: Enfeebling colibri 61-66 ?

agreed its not worth waisting the mp. they go down to fast and if your solo healing youll need the mp for heals, hastes, refresh, and na spells