RDM vs. BRD post 55 (i hope we win)

[Weezingpipes]

Don't whine about not getting invites. People don't like it when they've been used to 2-3 hours LFP when you've gotten a free ride.

No shit haha.

[kisada]

Originally posted by Weezingpipes
Don't whine about not getting invites. People don't like it when they've been used to 2-3 hours LFP when you've gotten a free ride.

No shit haha.

Preach on.

[Kiyosuki]

Well I know that Red Mages ability to keep mp going I think edges out Bard's mp regaining ability just a tiny bit.

But Bard's have songs to enchance pretty much everything so that more than makes up for it.

I don't think Red Mages are better than Brd's because like so many said, they're purpose is so different. Red Mages are masters of status and stratgetic magic, who can do a little bit of Blm and Whm to make a party's backline flow better, which naturally makes the whole pt flow better.

Bard's are just pure status enhancement, they can't MB or do a bit of everything plus some unique abilities. But they're enhancing makes your party go much faster.

I don't see the argument though since both of these classes get pt invites that make everyone else envious.

[Moggymog]

The argument, nay the landslide, was a bard's importance over the Red Mage to a party as a whole. Besides that, we all know that both classes are different, played different and add something different to a party in some way. It's just that you'll find more people playing Red Mage and see more Bards being taken over Red Mages.

What I noticed that I could for a long, long time is the ability to keep the WHM's MP up, something a Bard really can't do at all. After all, it should be every RDM's job to make sure the WHM has as much MP as it can since we can convert. But its hard to do that for some creatures like those Infernal Weapons at Ro'Meave. :dead:

[Kiyosuki]

It really is just a question of availability.

Red Mages and Bard's are both really sought after jobs, but Bards tend to be more rare and harder to find than a Red Mage, so when one finds a Bard available they usually jump at the chance of getting such a hard to find class.

I'm sure if the roles were reveresed, and Red Mage was the more rare of the two it'd be different.

[Moggymog]

Not true at all.

In many cases, I do find Bards more available than Red mages at 73-74, a lot more bards. And they will always get parties over the red mages. I even have a 73 Bard friend and he'd be invited to a party first and then me second.

I was even told last night to not waste MP on enfeebles. I can see why a Paladin might like a red mage so much, but everyone one else will tell you "Bard." And that's just the way it is, availability or not.

[fuoco]

at the rate how IT mobs in terrigan resisted my enfeebles, i figure that if there are 4 members or more members in pt who use mp (whm, blm, pld, drk) i should just keep dia2(sticks 100%) on the said mob and save mp on refresh and the occasional dispell. it was a full time job keeping everyone, including myself, happy and refreshed so the role of the enfeebler (para, slow) is of lesser importance.

and yes pld and the casting-happy drk love a rdm more than brd

[COWTIPPA]

I Luv RDM and all but this job is getting stupid. My enfeeb skill would be maxed out at my level but spells like Para, blind, slow, and gravity etc would never stick. Most of the time the only way it stick is if I had to keep casting it until it sticks. which mean I just blew away like 15-25% of my MP. But thats not what piss me off the most. What really gets me mad is that when blind, Para stick to the mob you can't even tell its active...no difference at all. I watch many fights after para, blind sticks to the mob and looked over the whole log after battle...their is like no difference..para might of got the mob to not attack once or twice...and blinded 4 get it...waste of MP unless the mob is easy or below. As a RDM we are the master of Enfeeb...but what is the point of Enfeeb when it doesn't make that much of a difference or even any difference at all. I know a lot of RDM must know what I am talking about. The truth is that I feel we are not needed anymore unless someone wants refresh or mob needs to be dispeled. (NOTE BARD's mages ballad is as good as refresh with good WHM or BLM know how to spend their MP)

Last thing I wanna say is our job is to refresh and Enfeeb right? (right) ^^ but how many of you notice WHM always cast Dia para, slwo etc and BLM cast bio, poison, blind, etc so what is left for us to enfeeb..lol (the ANSWER IS NOTHING!!!!!!) so my job is just to dispel and refresh. I know some of you are going to say that RDM can do some melee as well. WRONG!!! WRONG!! WRONG !! WRONG!!! we do like no DMG if most 5DMG per hit and 6-10dmg from Enblizzard, Enfire etc. But don't forget we miss 90% of the time..what I'm trying to say is as I get higher level I find myself useless. Bard has way more thing they can do for the party even thou they can't MB. But our MB doesn't do any DMG more time resist and take only 50-100 DMG when I wasted like over 100MP for a cast. (what a rip off!)

I know I sound angry and I am seeking help ^^ but lets be real RDM needs to be improved. We might be able to do a little of everything but we suck at everything. We're not even average on melee or magic...we're below average! Also Efeeb is pointless, all the other mages can honestly enfeeb as good as us. (not better but as good or even)...if you don't think so you're just lying to yourself.

The only thing we have going for ourself as RDM is the pipming RDM gear!! WOOT! (playa for life)

Over all what I'm trying to say is Bard will get PT b4 RDM cuz other mage can do what we do so we're not needed. With a smart BLM or WHM you wont need refresh. Mages ballad II is good enough.

BUT I WILL BE A RDM till THE DAY I DIE.


LS ** DeadlyAllinace **

[Arli]

I'll have to echo Apple's sentiments in that I really hate seeing posts like this. If anything, a BRD and RDM are the perfect complementary couple for a PT. I'd kick out a DPS class before choosing between a BRD and a RDM. Both classes, while they share MP regen and dispelling abilities, are fundamentally different and should be respected for their roles. The whole, this class gets teams easier than others is entirely preposterous.

Team composition is based on what the PT leader determines to be needed, and I have met very, very few PT leaders I credit with good sense. This whole debate is apples and oranges.

RDM enfeeblement skills are pretty much our trademark, just as PT buffing is for BRD. Both are important. At level 60+, the RDM with AF enhancements will be the only caster who manages to stick their enfeebles. If the PT doesn't seem to grasp the importance of having Paralysis, Slow, Gravity or Blind stick and stay on an IT mob, then they need to go back to Valkrum and "relearn" their basics. The fact that we can contribute to MBs and can cast Dia II as well as Bio II (yes I know they don't stack, but we have the capacity for casting either) only add to our repertoire. Of course if these are unimportant, then obviously the team isn't fighting anything challenging.

Some teams love their BRDs, others adore their RDMs - the best teams make room for both. I love my refresh, but I love it even more when I have Mage's Ballad I & II with it. We're equally important, and do our best when teamed together. That's my 2 cents.

[fuoco]

i don't hate this thread because discussion about our class from this "negative angle" lets me know, by feedback, how other rdm think about the weaknesses and strengths of our class.

i won''t deny this chance to let myself be more informed.

[COWTIPPA]

Arli this post isn't about having a perfect PT...its about who gets the last spot between a RDM or a BARD in a PT. of course we all want RDM and a bard in the same PT..but this thread is about if their is only one spot left who will people pick. But I understand everything u are saying that a bard and RDM make a killer PT. However thats not what the post is about.

I think Fuoco is right. its always good to hear feed back from other players. This tread isn't a fight between bard and RDM its more of everyone 2cent on what they think of RDM and BARD. I luv reading post on my class and how other RDM feel about it. From what I have read I think 90% of the RDM feel the same way. we need to be improved a little.

Its just kinda funny I been playing RPG since Intellivision and Atari 2600. From what I remeber from NES RDM was a killer class. They were advance class and very powerful mages. But Square has made RDM into a joke. ( I miss the old school RDM ) I wish square would make us RDM back into the mages we 1st were in FFI. I know its not fair but I think they really sould beef us RDM up a little on melee and INT.

[Deodorant]

But Square has made RDM into a joke.

Best post ever

80% of the people I know won't even bother going to exp without either a bard or an rdm. A joke? I don't think so!

[Arli]

Cowtippa, I really don't think RDMs need beefing up, but I do think we need some more specialization after level 50. We have a respectable amount of power and capacity, especially considered to the original version of the RDM in FFXI, I just want something more to look forward to as I move further into my 60s. The only things I have to look forward to are more poweful nukes (which are nice), but aren't role defining. Refresh, Convert and Dispel are great, but as the enfeeblement masters, I really don't like being defined by just these abilities, especially since BRDs are very capable dispellers and MP regenerators.I'm sure they're not too thrilled about it either, but they do have some incredible melee buffs and get some remarkable songs at 70+. We remain virtually unchanged for the duration of our careers after our AF.

Dia II is WHM castable and Bio II is BLM castable, and Gravity doesn't have a noticable increase in decreasing enemy evasion from the first time i've been able to cast it (Maybe Apple Pie can prove me wrong). We have the highest enfeeblement magic of all the classes, but we really don't have anything we can truly call our *own* outside of Gravity and Phalanx.

[Apple Pie]

I wish this thread had better title, not someting like "vs"

[Kiyosuki]

Maybe advanced spells like a Dispel II?

Or maybe Enthunder II, Enaero II etc. Make it so its not too much more effective but it can be cast on other characters?

Would a Mighty Guard like spell work in this game if it were tweaked at all?

What about like...Float, reduce the effect of AOE's.

I can't remember too many classic FF spells at the moment. But there has to be a lot they can use to fit Red Mage's playing style as far as uniqe spells go.