Summoner Subjob

[Altruist]

The point I was trying to make is that the summoner sub job only offers marginal benifits for major decrimants in party ability. The auto-refresh is a minor aid, more mp helps but using mp management will eliminate this need. If you have a dark staff you regen more than enough while your medding. Having a few extra cures is always greater than extra mp and a few summons.

BTW at 62 your amout to fight in onzozo, silence and paralyze like hell, after that crawlers and darters, tons of poison, after that kuftal with paralyze again. Bone PT, tons of statuses again. Hell, having dispel as a blm is a good idea if you fight weapons in ro'maev.

Sure you can use it, but I would never do it, and I would never choose a blm/smn, or ask if they have another sj.

[almighty_boof]

What I find HILARIOUS is that a month or two ago I was defending BLM/SUM and a few people in here who were bashing me before are now sticking up for it! I'm glad you guys see the light, however, you should pick a choice! XD BLM/SUM RULE!

[FFXITsukasa]

I agree. And now that you can get Summons and a lower level you can get you avatars up to level and use their special skills to great advantages. I have White Mage as my sub and I hardly ever Cure or despell in battle unless in dire straights. My job is Black Mage and that job involves weakening the enemy and damaging them with spells. White Mage is kinda just an added bonus to take stress away after battle. My job is Black Mage THEN White Mage. When its BLM/SMN my job is still to weaken and damage and use my Summons to support my party when need. (Ex Pulling, Healing Light, Spring Water, Blink, etc.)

[evilution]

you mean BLM/SUM rule at setting in jeuno LFG.

[Altruist]

How do you dispell as a blm/whm? Many rdm would like to know.

[Mystic Fury]

what a lot of people fail to realize, i think, is that people create characters to fit a certain role. a BLM/SMN plays a certain role in the pt then a BLM/WHM. when you invite a BLM, its important that you look at the sub, not just expect that they have a whm sub. if your pt needs a blm with a whm sub, the blm/smn wont be invited. but if the pt already has a whm and a rdm, i think it would be more helpful to have a blm/smn. people create characters to offer different roles for a party, and not all people should be expected to have the same sub. it doesnt really make sense. right now i am a BLM/RDM at lvl 34, i also have a SMN/RDM at lvl 20. once i hit lvl 50 with my blm, i think i might switch to the smn sub, because thats the role that i want to play in the party. i dont want to be a blm who heals sometimes. if i did, i would stick with my rdm sub. i want to be a blm with support summon abilities. and it will work, i just shouldnt be invited to a party expecting to do something else. when people see a blm/smn, they should see that they are offering a certain role to the pt, and if they dont need them, they dont have to invite them, but you shouldnt bash someone and say that smn isnt as effective because of the lack of healing.

[irecinius]

I have a kind of static pt.. usually we all hunt together... and its this layout... PLD,RNG,SAM,RDM,WHM,BLM (me)

I do little to NONE Healing whatsoever... thank god Toramas are over.. so just ocasional Poison from Crawlers and Flys.. since Pld is the only one getting poisoned... i can pretty much SUB whatever is fine.. Subbing SMN on thoses kind of pts can be helpfull...

Garuda Blink, Fenrir Erase and Evasion down(this is great), Shiva Freeze Armor, Leviatan Gravity

[Xarndelius]

Whm sub is fun and very useful in my opinion. As a BLM/WHM your able to fill more pt roles then a BLM/SMN.

I've noticed, higher the lvl, slimmer the pickings. The BLM/WHM is simply the best combo for a blm, i believe. Its nice to know that as long as the tank does his job, and i'm not stupid, I can handle myself. With Cures, nukes, etc.

The WHM sub just gives soo many spells that the few useful bloodpacts you get just wouldn't add up.

Honestly, I think Summoner is a good sub job for one job, White Mage. I mean..when is the last time you've seen a WHM nuke? They get Warp from our job, thats about it. With Summoner they are gaining MP while standing, and can carry around more beneficial spells for the pt then a blm sub. The only reason they sub blm is for the mp and Conserve MP.

Anyways just my opinion. I couldn't do /smn, just so narrow, and well I like /whm!

[AtraposBLM]

There have been a few instances where having /smn would've been nice...but those ended well before lv60. Basically, the only time /smn is cool is from lv50 to lv60 (and its only debatably *on par* with whm...most would agree it's not even as good as whm...so that would be nice). That's when having auto-refresh and blinkga could be nice...but after 60, you exp on things you really want to have status cures on (Torama ;

Even after then...helping a whm out by poisona'ing the pld, barwatering the party, etc. really makes you stand out as a blm. It also helps spend the time between bursts...lol

[evilution]

SMN is even less desireable after 70 or 72 when errant + dark staff + your last clear mind trait means you can regen MP like a madman.

I dont even worry about my MP any more it refils so quickly.

[riceburner4540]

let me apologize in advance for the extremely long post.

i still stand firm on my opinion of blm/whm > blm/smn. as i've said before, i haven't had mp problems (i might, if i subbed smn and used aerial armor...). i never make the group wait for my mp, i'm usually up and running 10 seconds into the battle, and i do my job well. why should i sub summoner then? to give me mp i won't use when i could have potentially useful spells, such as bar spells and cures, sneak and invisible? granted, i'll probably never use the cures but its nice to know that they're there.

with a smn (not SUM) sub, you'll gain a few points of int and a larger mp pool with auto-refresh. nice...but if you have no problems with your mp pool or regenerating mp as a blm/whm, what reason do you need to use smn? blood pacts? the only remotely useful one is aerial armor...you'll save your tank from getting hit twice cuz lets face it, the other members won't be getting hit. nice...but it cost you 92 mp...you could've casted stone III for a potential 340 damage. it might be useful on mobs with dangerous AE attacks, but through the 50s, you'll fight mostly crabs. those 2 hits would cost a white mage a mere cure III or at most a cure III and cure II (46-70 mp, tops). all other blood pacts' duration is far too short to warrant the time and mp cost used to activate.

there's only one situation i can think of that would warrant a smn subjob...and the only situation i would even consider doing so. if i'm killing anything that requires dangerous pulls, subbing smn and using carbuncle to pull is fairly safe and reliable. if you want to be the strongest damage dealer, a blm/smn would beat out any other blm/mage given equal equipment, but the damage difference is 3, maybe 5 points per spell. is that really worth giving up all those utility spells? also, as a blm/smn, you'd better start carrying lots of silent oils and prism powders...

edit: addressing a few points other posters brought up

Garuda Blink, Fenrir Erase and Evasion down(this is great), Shiva Freeze Armor, Leviatan Gravity

why use leviathan's gravity when you have a rdm in party? freeze armor doesn't warrant the 63 mp cost as well as summoning cost simply because the 2-3 damage per hit the spikes deal to the monster is nothing...i can cast a stone spell for more damage. the paralyze effect of ice spikes will be worthless also, since if you have a rdm worth his salt, he'll keep paralyze on the mob. as far as fenrir's abilities go, the evasion down is probably the only nice one, if you can get fenrir and make the ability stick. and also, the rdm's dispel is superior to fenrir's (single target, much safer)

When its BLM/SMN my job is still to weaken and damage and use my Summons to support my party when need. (Ex Pulling, Healing Light, Spring Water, Blink, etc.)

time spent pulling is time you don't get to use for restoring mp. i would only sub smn to pull only if we're not leveling (doing coffer keys or something) and the pulls are risky and dangerous. i assume you mean healing ruby...by the time you actually get that ability off, your tank would be dead. for healing use /whm, /smn doesn't get spring water, and i've already discussed how aerial armor isn't quite worth the mp cost (for blm).

I have White Mage as my sub and I hardly ever Cure or despell

the whm sub isn't merely for curing. sneak/invis, bar spells, -na spells, etc... are a great asset to the party, much more than blinkga will ever be. also, how the hell do you dispel with a whm sub?

what a lot of people fail to realize, i think, is that people create characters to fit a certain role. a BLM/SMN plays a certain role in the pt then a BLM/WHM.

nope, i think the roles are pretty much the same. as a black mage, your primary job is to land your elemental enfeebles, nuke, sleep adds, escape, etc. the sub merely adds flexibility. with a whm sub, you are far more flexible than smn job.

[AtraposBLM]

riceburner

[MidgardPlas]

Well said riceburner.

[Lakario]

I personally believe that the cons of not being able to enfeeble or heal are far too great for a blm/smn; however, whm/smn is a very nice combo past 50. You have great mp and you can auto-refresh. BLM sub for whm is the typical setup but doesn't add all that much. The white mage shouldn't be casting black magic spells so why even sub it?

[riceburner4540]

aside from a bit of an mp boost (which a smn sub also does, but better), blm's conserve mp trait is pretty nice also. although it is a powerful trait, its not something to rely on, but its effects are noticeable, just not consistent. smn's auto-refresh is very consistent. having a blm sub provides you with a few useful spells, like sleep in case of an add, warp, escape, tractor. usually the rdm can take care of this if something happened to the rdm but rdms don't always sub blm. or what if the rdm is incapacitated and the blm is dead? what if you don't have a blm and instead of a rdm, you have a brd? there are many situations when having /blm is better than /smn but all in all, i think whm/smn and whm/blm are fairly equal.