Hey, Mods-- sticky THIS!!!

[Gman]

At last I got to the end of this thread, so I can give my 2 cents. (I'm generally not one to read 2 or 3 posts in a 40 post thread, then claim to know what I'm saying )

Here's my theory on where these gimp combos are coming from...

Maybe this has been discussed before, but it seems to be missing from this thread entirely so I'll say my piece and you guys can make up your own minds.

This game is called Final Fantasy XI. With the FF name, comes certain expectations from its players, as well as a pre-determined idea of what jobs are best. I think most of the gimpy combos are coming directly grom Final Fantasy Tactics-ville...

Just the other day on Gamefaqs (a place you don't have to think too much :p ) some guy who had obviously played previous FF games, but CLEARLY not done any research on FFXI asked about a job combo. Now, anyone who has been to Gamefaqs knows that it's the land of the stupid flames, so you can imagine the responses. Anyway, the guy says how would a NIN/SMN work out?

Now, before you go flaming that combo (which I almost did), put yourself in his shoes. You know NOTHING about how the party system works in FFXI, and even less about the abilities/stats, etc of the Jobs and Subjobs in FFXI. Lets assume this guy is thinking FF Tactics. Lets face it... Ninja was a "1337" job in that game. It was the epitomy of damage dealing, speed, and finesse. As far as magic goes, Summoner has traditionally been quite powerful in FF history. In FFT, you could pretty much make any Main/Secondary work because of equips and support abilities (which were interchangeable, unlike FFXI). Is it not relatively reasonable for this guy to just simply "combine" 2 of the most powerful jobs in FF history, and conclude that they may work well together? We all know they won't, and with a little research and experience, this newbie will know it too.

Lets take this a step further and assume that he has been waiting 2 years to play this game online with his friends, and he has really been looking forward to this combo. Is anything anyone says here ~really~ going to convince him that it sucks? He will likely have to find out for himself, and then his dreams will be crushed. ) Oh well... at least he knows now. Can you imagine finding out that not only is his dream combo not going to work, but Ninja and Summoner are the 2 most gimped jobs in the game in comparison to previous FF installments. Think about it... you start playing ninja only to find out that you are supposed to be an overpriced tank, as opposed to a fierce Katana swinging damage dealer. Just when you get over that shock, you find out that you start Summoner with a whopping 1 summon, which sucks ass, then even when you do get the good summons, all you are is a party buff character and backup healer??? WHAT THE FUCK??? Expectations are what it's all about, my friends...

What I am offering is in no way an excuse for any gimp subjobs. All I am attempting to discuss is what may lead new players to pick these "gimp" combos. It's a matter of not being educated otherwise. It's a matter of going from "king of the world" in regards to previous FF games, to being humbled in a whole new environment where people will chew you up and spit you out for even thinking about being a gimp combo.

******************************************

Back on topic, Sheila's post comes across as very elitist, very bitchy, and very condescending. It comes off more like "do what I say because I'm 100% right", rather than "this may work better for you due to the ~group~ concept. You can choose whatever combo you want, but group leaders tend to look for efficient combos first". Which version would you warm to if you were thinking about picking a gimpy combo? Maybe it was needed because of the amount of people asking about this and that combo, but I have already offered my theory as to why they are so out to lunch on that. Bottom line, a sticky is really not needed. Not that I care though...

Sorry this was so long... I got to rambling...again.

[supertle]

Actually... I'm extremely intelligent, and neither confused nor crazy, and I've got test scores (albeit old test scores) to prove it! Not that I use that as an excuse to go on huge ego trips... I just have the power of common sense.

That's simply your opinion. I see otherwise but i 'll try harder and not impede on your fun and rights to post on this board. Why does every post you make portray you more of a ......

That sticky post is neutral as far as i see. It does not attack gimp jobs nor discourage them. Don't nitpick Sheila's post on her wordings. Don't take them to the extreme. If you read and read into it very deeply, of course you can come out with different interpretations then what it's aim to be. So stop being an arse like this original poster and take it at face value. It's SOUND ADVICE she's offering and a suggestion not to keep on arguing on this message forum. Why don't everyone read sheila's original post again before posting.

[Gman]

supertle...

I know you didn't just call me an arse. If you did, well, then I'm rubber and you're glue... you know the rest.

Name calling... hmm, how primative... fuckin butthole. :p

[supertle]

reading my post again and i can understand how it seem like how i just contrue you as an arse gman, no it wasn't meant specifically at you, let me make it clearer, the only arse so far in this thread as far as i see it is the original poster,

[Ipwnzuall!!!111]

"That's simply your opinion. I see otherwise but i 'll try harder and not impede on your fun and rights to post on this board. Why does every post you make portray you more of a ......"

And in the end, this all comes down to exactly this: failure to understand the difference between opinion and fact. It's a sixth grade skill people... get with it. That statement reads as a fact, and it is a fact. It's not an opinion, because I don't think it... I know it, to the furthest degree that anyone can know anything at least. Sheila's post was filled with opinions passed off like they were facts, and (no offense to her) that really gets under my skin.
I don't see how you could possibly construe it as being a neutral post when it is clearly biased in every way towards people who try anything other than cookie-cutter combos, but from the way some of you respond to my posts, I shouldn't be surprised, because it's obvious that some of you (who shall be un-named) lack reading comprehension skills. Anyways... enough of that.

So, let's do this: I'm going to start a thread in each main job forum, and ask people which subjobs they consider to "work". Combos that recieve a certain number of votes will end up in a final thread, which will state that these combos are considered acceptable to people on this board. Does that not sound reasonable? At the very least it can't be worse than the post that started this mess.

[Icemage]

I'm surprised the mods haven't already locked this thread. There are dozens of threads exactly like it which have come and gone, and come and gone... and come and gone yet again.

For what its worth, I do think Shiela's post is a bit inflammatory, and while factually correct, it could certainly be worded in a manner which would ruffle fewer feathers.

However, I also don't think that complaining about it is going to make things any better. Removing it as a sticky will invite more pointless threads (like this one), not fewer.

I would suggest that the people who want it removed due to its tone spend some of their writing efforts in writing a replacement for it and submit it to the moderators - if you think you can do better than Sheila's post, by all means, be our guests. I know I, for one, don't have enough experience and knowledge to write a better account, and this after playing both retail and in beta (PS2), but perhaps someone else can. *shrugs*


Icemage

[neighbortaru]

you know, what is the point of continuing this mess? you seem to be convinced that you are right and shiela's post is wrong. other's do not agree with you. they've (we've) explained why they don't agree with you. what are you trying to do now, beat them over the head with spam until they agree with you?

here's a myth and fact for you:

Myth - You are right and Shiela is wrong.

Fact - You are not right.

[Trell]

You know what? I don't think it's worth anyone's time to repeat to you again and again why you are wrong and shouldn't make such a big deal of this, so just suit yourself and enjoy being offended. However, stop alluding to people's lack of reading comprehension or logic. You're not going to convince anyone. Just stop spamming.

[neighbortaru]

btw, there's a nifty option with the forum to ignore ppl.

[Trell]

You read my mind...

[Ipwnzuall!!!111]

Well, you people can say that you've explained it all you want, but the only real truth is that you haven't.
(to clarify: explaining entails you to comprehend what you're saying, and likewise to comprehend what I am saying, but it would be good if you could go a step further and analyze what you're saying, then evaluate it. If you did that, you would inevitably see why what I've said is unmistakably true, and what you are saying is opinionative jibberish.)

Yes, I'm right and you're wrong, and the fact that many of you insist on being wrong together doesn't make you anything more than a united front of wrong people.

I've offered my unbiased and logical perspective of the situation, and you all have provided no factual evidence at all. Sheila's post is untrue. Therefore= not fact. At this point I really don't believe that some of you can't understand it, but rather that you don't want to accept it, either because you're too proud to consider that you're wrong, or you've taken a position and would sooner go down with your ship than admit the error of your ways. Either way, it's clear that logic won't sway you. I don't know why it would, since the said few can't even use it in the first place, let alone understand it.

"So, let's do this: I'm going to start a thread in each main job forum, and ask people which subjobs they consider to "work". Combos that recieve a certain number of votes will end up in a final thread, which will state that these combos are considered acceptable to people on this board. Does that not sound reasonable? At the very least it can't be worse than the post that started this mess."

Since some of you seemed to miss it the first time, there it is again.

[neighbortaru]

sigh. i know i'm gonna regret this...

you said:

Fifthly, I don't know where in their asses people are pulling out this idea that I expect them to invite gimp combos and treat them just like any other player.

what does this say? gimp combos != any other player.

Shiela says:

To be better at your job, you must pick a suitable support job.

hmm, why does this sound familar? gimp combos != any other player

you said:

I'm not suggesting that I would invite a WHM/WAR to a PT, but lets face it-- if there are no good healers around, you either have to settle for a bad WHM or no PT at all.

hmm, so a WHM/WAR is a bad WHM.

Shiela says:

To be better at your job, you must pick a suitable support job.

what does this say again?

Now let's look at the other statement of shiela's:

Not everything works and it does matter.

I believe this to be a true statement. My experiences have confirmed this for me. It's a bit harder to verify this as fact, but the converse is not.

If you assert that this statement is false, then "everything works and it doesn't matter" would be your conclusion. This can be disproved by the following situation: PLD/THF with no other provokers in a PT and an assorted number of nukers & high damage dealers in Quifm. This will not work. You will all die to that IT pugil.

Thus, there is nothing wrong with the statement "Not everything works and it does matter."

These are the only 2 statements that Shelia asserted are facts. These are right. The above statements explain why I think they are right.

btw, you have not proven, in any of your posts, that Shelia's statements are wrong so I can't see why you are right.

[supertle]

Yes, I'm right and you're wrong, and the fact that many of you insist on being wrong together doesn't make you anything more than a united front of wrong people.

you should reeavaluate your intelligence, and among many many more things, the smartest person in the world sometimes have no logic or common sense, there's just something quite odd about you

like i said earlier a few times, each post you make, you put yourself in more and more of a bad light,

yes everyone in this thread is the mass crowd of idiots that this world consist of, you know it all, we can't read and understand,
do yourself the biggest favor, don't mind us little people that fails to comprehend your ultimate universal truth,

[TBoTB]

ive read and said my peace on this topic already but their are still those who wont leave the others way of playing alone. but thats not the big issue to my understanding from this topic more so than a users perspective on a topic a mod made who made it as fact from their perspective. There fore along with some idea i saw up top about posting in each job fourm, after all nessisary abilities, pros, cons, etc are considerd for each job/sub combination in each fourm i will make a info topic about it. i will also slightly modify Sheila's message so that those who are opposed to her words can atleast understand them.

If you would have anything to contribute to the cause please look forward to my topics in each job fourms and give BOTH pros and cons off ANY job combination pertaining to that main job. To help you understand more you can use a PARTY vs ALL OTHER format were as you make a section in your post that pertains to making the best out of that pt with that job combination. I hope that you all can contribute without flaming and such. please if you disagree with another poster in those threads explain to the best of your ability why you do so, otherwise such unessisary contributions will be deleted.

With all that said i will close this topic and any subsequent topics dealing with Party correct vs "GIMPED" jobs/subs combinations.