as it seems mithra is the best race for any melee type

[Atma]

Yeah... Melee types will wear thier RSE for about.. 4 levels, if they ever even wear it at all. The thing about RSE - It's great, as long as you don't ever actually get hit.

[Socrates]

mithra defense <call1> i base my talk on my experience so far. i have lv 36drk, lv 31war, lv 30thf.

firstly, hardly anyone wears RSE for a long period unless you're poor or playing elvaan mage.

by hisdon's lv, mithras should have 4-5acc over elvaan, this is a like a sniper's ring without -10def. given the same gear, elvaan will NEVER hit more accurately than mithra.

but same applies to str. mithra with same gear will NEVER hit for as much as elvaan.

then again, elvaan will never critical as much as mithra (this is much more noticible). one extra critical could easily put mithra on par with elvaan in DPS.

but then again, elvaan have better HP, vit and general battle toughness, they tend to be better tankers and die less.

bottom line is:
elvaan and mithra both are good melee races, both shines in various ways. I like playing mithra cuz I enjoy playing a female heroine. It reminds me of playing tomb raider. but someone else might equally like playing elvaan because they want to be wickedly strong and steadfast. It's all in taste, to me there is no clear cut winner.

[Feday]

elvaan rse pants are the best a dragoon can use for many lvls. I am having a hard time finding something to upgrade to around lvl 40.

[Hisdon]

Originally posted by Socrates
mithra defense <call1> i base my talk on my experience so far. i have lv 36drk, lv 31war, lv 30thf.

firstly, hardly anyone wears RSE for a long period unless you're poor or playing elvaan mage.

by hisdon's lv, mithras should have 4-5acc over elvaan, this is a like a sniper's ring without -10def. given the same gear, elvaan will NEVER hit more accurately than mithra.

but same applies to str. mithra with same gear will NEVER hit for as much as elvaan.

then again, elvaan will never critical as much as mithra (this is much more noticible). one extra critical could easily put mithra on par with elvaan in DPS.

but then again, elvaan have better HP, vit and general battle toughness, they tend to be better tankers and die less.

bottom line is:
elvaan and mithra both are good melee races, both shines in various ways. I like playing mithra cuz I enjoy playing a female heroine. It reminds me of playing tomb raider. but someone else might equally like playing elvaan because they want to be wickedly strong and steadfast. It's all in taste, to me there is no clear cut winner.

+10 Life Belt
+10 my soon to have SNiper's Rings (why god why did you make them so much?! D;/)
+2 Ryl Squire Mufflers
+4 DEX

you miss the point that most people don't have this gear, and yes, I do hit more than Mithras, why? Very few people around my lvl have Sniper's Rings for one, which gives me 5 accuracy over a Mithra already. Plus the additional +14 accuracy, and the fact most people use +2 DEX rings cause they are only 15-20k...I hit a lot more than you think...

[albert lee]

why the hell do people think dex>all... lol

[Socrates]

Hisdon>>

re-read my post. people think i attack elves for some reason. i simply want equality.

but if you want to bring up equipment, i'm just gonna say you underestimate people. just because you play mithra does not automatically make you poor. i don't know how you ever got that in your mind :angel:

[Frarinalga]

I'd rather be a really tall person with a tree trunk for a neck that walks weird than an ugly looking furry cat with a hunch that probably has 5 stds :p

[Socrates]

lol, now if everyone was like you, we'd all be skinny lanky giraffes that run like a chicken.

[Atma]

Originally posted by Hisdon



you miss the point that most people don't have this gear, and yes, I do hit more than Mithras, why

You miss the point that your equipment, however good it is, is completely and totally unrelated to the that fact that simple math says that mithra hit more often. Sure, YOU may hit more often then the average mithra, but you DON'T hit more often then an equally equipped mithra. Nor does your average elvaan hit more often then your average mithra.

[riceburner4540]

exactly, you say that you hit more often than a mithra because of your superior equipment, right? so what happens when a mithra uses that exact same equipment? imo, both are equally good at their melee jobs...however i tend to favor mithra cuz they're somewhat rare on my server

[Rico]

Elvaan Melee> ALL


Taru Taru > Mithra

:mad:

It's one thing having the equip to be good but it also takes the right person to play. I don't care who the hell you are if your the best race I really care less. But aslo I will am provoke when I need to or keep my hate on me that's all that matters. I keep my hate perectfly with my war I don't see what all these ppl bitch about - -''

ph34r teh elv@@ns 0f dOoM!!

[Andorhall]

Sorry Rico Galka > Elvaan!

[Rico]

OMG :O

Wild Rabbit > Galka


:sweat:

[Uchiha Sasuke]

Galka whm is a little awkward, but benediction would help him out a lot, since all the hate goes to the whm after that move, the galka would be able to stand it for a bit, unlike the taru.

Umm... no. It doesnt matter if your galka, youll still get the crap stomped out of you. Even if it did let you last an extra 2-3 hits, big deal thats a 2 hr ability...

Galka whm is not a smart combo, a taru has a ton more benefits compared to it.

[Talisien]

I don't know if this will help anyone, nor am I that familiar with mid/high level race comparisons when it comes to melee damage, but with that said, I do have an opinion on this race issue. Coming from years and years (and more years) or EQ, and parsing data, and comparing numbers to the nth degree, I can say this with the utmost certainty -- I'd rather hit 90% of the time for 10 damage a hit, than hit 10% of the time for 100 damage a hit.

The fact of the matter is in level up PTs all you want is constant damage from melees. Renkeis can add tremendous damage spikes, but *over time* (we're talking over large amounts of time, say hours and hours of melee data) the one that hits the most, does the most damage. Why is this? Because the damage disparity between an Elvaan and a Mithra is not large enough to offset the BASE damage that both do, before Strength is taken into account. For example, both Elvaan and Mithra use the same sword, with exact same equipment, same level. For our purposes let's say the Elf has +10 str over the Mithra, the Mithra, +10 dex. Let's say each hits, on average, for a base (irregardless of strength, which is sort of hard to figure out, but wer'e making up #s so who cares) for 100 damage. Now the Elf, with +10 str, will hit for about 20% more damage, or 120 damage. The Mithra, with +10 dex, will hit let's say 20% more (on average) than the Elf. Crunch the numbers. Over the course of 100 swings:

Elf -- Hits 50x, for 6000 dmg.
Mithra -- Hits 62x, for 6200.

Over 10,000 swings:

Elf (5,000 hits) - 600,000 dmg
Mithar (6,250 hits) - 625,000 dmg

etc.

The point is as the base damage widens (in other words, as the weapons get better and your base str increases) the simple matter of *hitting* with your weapon will do more damage than any str increase will *increase* that same hit's damage.

Let's sum up though. This argument is an argument against focusing on str as a prime stat for damage dealers, not against Elves in general. Getting back to the race discussion, something must always be remembered: Races are NOT created equal in FFXI. Some races are just going to be better at certain things than others, like Taru will always be the best BLMs and Galka the best damage absorbers. Period! Now please, and it needs to be said because of a lot of people don't seem to remember, this is pure potential, and realizing that potential is the job of the player, not the character.

As for the discussion at hand, Elvaan v. Mithra for melee damage dealing, I'd still say the scales are well balanced. In regards to *just* Dark Knight, with one of its main damage dealing abilities based on max HP, Elvaan and Mithra should both do supremely well. Mithra will hit more of course, but the Elvaan can make up that gap with judicious use of Soul Eater, and a focus on Dex gear. When it comes to a more "pure" damage dealing class, like a Thief or Warrior, again the equality shows b/c even though a Mithra will deal more dmg, the Elvaan with his higher vit and defense and HP will take a lot more hits effectively.

There is a reason why Elvaans are always told not to be Thieves--Thieves don't have any extra abilities to make up for their damage, if they can't hit, they can't deal damage. Dark Knights are not the same, they have other abilities to aid in dealing damage, so the Elvaan's other strong attributes come into play.

End result, final statement -- Any race, played moderately well, with the "best" subjob for the PT, will be able to maximize the PT's efficiency and xp gain. Stated differently, race (except in the rare cases of Taru tanks and Galka mages) will almost NEVER negatively affect your xp gain, regardless of job chosen. You might think it's the race, but it's not -- it's the gear, it's the player, it's the subjob, it's the level, it's the tactics. Race, even though not inherently equal in this game, does not play such a defining factor as to limit the PT in any meaningful way.

-Talisaen
totetote Taru^2
Future Bard..
31 Rdm, 12 Whm, 10 Blm, 13 War, 10 Monk, 1 Thf, 1 Brd