Game Balance and User Frustration

[Malacite]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Now take all those aspects and tack on some decent melee ability and we'd have a real bread-winner on our hands.

But alas, no. The days of Red Wizard glory were short lived, never to be seen again.


FF1 FTW

[Gobo]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

What really did it was Dispel. For years, Dispel gave a lot of Cumulative Enmity (CE). Coupled with Sleep, Sleep II and Cures, RDM had little trouble capping CE in a short period of time. AF hat and relic body allowed for Fast Cast to be capped, so recasting shadows was a breeze and could be easily supplemented with Haste for recast. Add in Stoneskin, Phalanx, max -spell interupt and access to a good deal of -Physical damage taken, -magic damage taken and +Magic Defense bonus gear and you have a wall.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Also they could achieve an interrupt build that guaranteed successful casting regardless of damage taken. I don't know if other classes can pull that off and also manage to tank, but Red Mage could.

[Squiggs]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Because RDM could pull it off without engaging

Ah. I never even thought about that aspect of it.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Because RDM could pull it off without engaging, or at least that was my understanding. RDM's enfeebles were numerous and had enough enmity building that they could really just cycle those to keep hate.

[Squiggs]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I was always curious about how and why a RDM would tank, and it got nerfed before I was high enough level to see it. Was it done with just high enmity enfeebles (or what used to be) and time? And damage mitigation was stoneskin, phalanx, and shadows? And why do it with an RDM as opposed to PLD or NIN?

[cidbahamut]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I'm really sad I missed the RDM tanking era. It seemed like it would have been a lot of fun, and as you said the shortage of tanks is a very real concern on anything that's tough enough to need something other than DDs bouncing hate around like a game of hot potato.

For real though, I probably would have been terrible at it but I was so looking forward to giving it a try before they nerfed enfeeble enmity all to hell.

[Taskmage]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Taking the rdm whining in another direction, I'd be happy if we got to tank again. Yeah, it was pretty wrong that we could do as well as pld and nin with less support, but it's not like we were brokenly invincible at it or anything. Imo they could have taken us down a notch in that role without completely destroying it. Again, was having three viable tank jobs so bad for the game?

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

He was my hero.

"Disappointing" does not sufficiently describe watching him fall like that.

[Malacite]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

If I had Chant du Cygne, I'm convinced I would probably wreck stuff. The question is how to muster the drive to go get it...

Just do it. I strongly recommend going for Almace over the WoE version, as I find those weapons to be a waste of time for all that NM camping you have to do - but that's still an option if you want Chant bad enough. The difference just having some of these WS makes is ridiculous - the point where even the WoE version is comparable or better than owning a Relic weapon.


Briareus is actually pretty damned easy and can be solo'd by some jobs without much difficulty. Sobek is harder, but with all the AF3 he drops it's not hard to get people to tag along. The hard part is getting his KI's which will likely come down to cleaving crabs.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I'm saying this because, the RDM forum in particular, seems to have this thing going on in it where the real issue is that people just don't want to have to get gear. Hyrist, in particular, always struck me as a reasonable individual who seemed like he had ideas and knew what he was talking about. This was back when I was a poster on Allakhazam. In the end, he turns out to be nothing more than a lazy fraud who apparently couldn't gear himself to save his life.

This was a pretty unpleasant realization.

Back when I was RDM nooblet I spent a lot of time reading through what Hyrist posted on Alla. I gathered that RDM melee was a bit taboo but Hyrist always appeared very level-headed and seemed to know what he was doing. It gave me hope and he even gave me a few pointers for mid level melee gearing.

Fast forward about two years and we get the official forums and everyone seems to have gone over the top. It's like the focus has shifted from pushing RDM's melee performance as far as it can go to trying to poke HNMs for the sheer audacity of it.

Then again, maybe I'm just becoming jaded because I've hit the level cap and seen how powerful RDM's mage side is and have come to thoroughly enjoy it.

Either way, whining about not wanting to get gear is pretty dumb when that's the primary factor when it comes to performance in anything, but especially meleeing.

I tried nuking in a dinner jacket and some elemental staves once. It was terrible. Why would meleeing be any different?

[Ketaru]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Did Evisceration yesterday for 3722 damage...granted, it was a colibri type mob and it was probably a Quadruple Attack proc...but bah, let me gloat about something.

Been getting a lot of advice from this guy who is a THF. Next time there's a Cuchulain's Belt on the AH, I'm gonna be all over it.

If I had Chant du Cygne, I'm convinced I would probably wreck stuff. The question is how to muster the drive to go get it...

In case that was at all ambiguous, I am not referring to anyone who frequents this forum, as we seem to all be capable of holding civil discussions whenever the topic comes up.

I just spent the last hour going through the Official Forums because I wanted to see if there was any discussion I could take part in. There were a few things I almost wanted to make comments on, but in the end, it didn't seem like it was worth my time.

Honestly, if you ask me, I'm beginning to think the job is probably where it ought to be at the moment. But if I had to complain about anything, it's that the gear availability took a dive after Abyssea. Really, why can't the job use Loki's Kaftan? Even if the RDM of FFXI is not the RDM of former FF games, the one thing that RDM did have going for it prior to Abyssea was gear availability.

I'm saying this because, the RDM forum in particular, seems to have this thing going on in it where the real issue is that people just don't want to have to get gear. Hyrist, in particular, always struck me as a reasonable individual who seemed like he had ideas and knew what he was talking about. This was back when I was a poster on Allakhazam. In the end, he turns out to be nothing more than a lazy fraud who apparently couldn't gear himself to save his life. A poster on another forum described him:

"Last time I saw him on Midgard before he (mercifully) buggered off - he was running around campaign in the nice combo of AF1 hat and is it jaridah body as his awesome melee set."

I don't think anybody on that particular forum realizes that gear requirements were always much more harsh on damage dealers in order to perform.

And now there's this:

Person who challenged me at the parse told me not to bother till I had a 'decent' WS set, bro. And 'decent' in their definition is 90% best gear pieces available to their job. So that's gonna be a while, especially when I play maybe 2-3 hours a day max and I've more important pieces/jobs to work on.

You wanna help that parse come along quicker, volunteer to help me get the gear. Otherwise, you're just as much at the mercy of my playability as I am.

Whining about being unable to get gear never got anybody anywhere in this game.

Whatever though, I believe I was always somebody who at least tried. I slaved for weeks to do Assaults to get Pahluwan gear. I got the Dusk Haste pieces when they were still expensive crap. I made sure to ask questions and got stuff like Foragers Mantle to hold myself to the same standards as other meleers. I steamrolled through CoP because I really wanted Rajas Ring and I really, really, REALLY wanted Hollow Earring. I did a lot of Campaign, but I never wanted to be seen as that guy who didn't gear swap.

So if there was any disappoint on my part, it was that there was so little new gear to shoot for when there used to be so much. They can push the job in the direction of an Enhancer/Enfeebler. But to the end of lowering gear availability, I honestly do not approve.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

IANA (I Am Not Armando), but . . .

Your ring choice in your TP set depends whether you have an even or odd number of DEX without that ring. If it's even, Ulthalam's (though I personally would rather have chosen Balrahn's, but whatever); otherwise, Iota.

Your WS set choices are a lot less clean-cut, especially since Evisceration is a critical weapon-skill, and we don't know what your basic critical hit rate would be with it, or how relatively effective it would be to boost it, for that matter (since that depends on a variety of things, such as critical damage bonuses as well as your pDIF depending on what you're fighting). My judgement call, however, would be to keep Goliard for the Hands (one more effective point of Accuracy, and some Attack to make up for the loss in the DEX mod), maybe Jupiter's Ring over Iota's (double the DEX mod, only 1-2 less points of effective Accuracy), Cuchulain's Mantle for the Back, and Anguinus Belt for the Waist. Of course, a lot of this is assuming that you're not capping Accuracy on whatever you're Eviscerating.

ADD: Concerning Iota Ring vs. Jupiter's Ring (vs. Ulthalam's), Armando's told me that you're probably better off simply using Sniper's or some similar higher-Accuracy Ring in that slot.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Somebody set up the Armando Signal.

[Ketaru]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Alright, so since we've essentially turned this into a thread about meleeing on RDM, I've got gear questions. Somebody asked in LS what is the best WS back piece for Evisceration these days. Somebody answered Vigilance Mantle +1. But that is from the point for a THF or DNC, so now I'm wondering how much Accuracy I should keep or can I risk going for other attributes. So far, gear sets...and questions about what gear I should use go something like this, along with the relevant attributes.

Main: Twilight Knife
Sub: Khanda +2 (OAT 2-4) or Chimeric Fleuret. I basically switch depending on whether I'm fighting common mobs or NMs.
Ammo: Demonry Core

TP Set

Head: Zelus Tiara Haste+8%
Neck: Ziel Charm Acc+12
Ear1: Hollow Earring DEX+2 Acc+2 Enspell Damage+3
Ear2: Moonshade Earring Acc+4 Regain+1 (sorry, no Suppanomimi. I picked Beastly Earring. I was young, and naive, and didn't have /NIN leveled back then...)
Body: Goliard Saio Haste+4%
Hands: Dusk Gloves Haste+3% Att+5
Ring1: Jupiter's Ring DEX+6 or Ulthalam's Ring Acc+4 Att+4 or Iota Ring Acc+3 DEX+3?
Ring2: Rajas Ring STR+5 DEX+5
Back: Atheling Mantle Att+20 DA+3
Waist: Goading Belt Haste+5% Store TP+5
Legs: Calmecac Trousers Haste+3% DA+2 Triple Attack+2 Acc-8
Feet: Dusk Ledelsens+1 Haste+3% Att+3

Evisceration Set

Head: Issen Hachimaki Acc+12 Dagger+5 Conserve TP+5
Neck: Soil Gorget fTP multiplier+0.1 +Acc
Ear1: Hollow Earring DEX+2 Acc+2
Ear2: Brutal Earring DA+5 Store TP+1
Body: Antares Harness DEX+8 Acc+8
Hands: Goliard Cuffs Acc+4 Att+4 or Warlock's Gloves+1 DEX+6?
Ring1: Iota Ring Acc+3 DEX+3 or Jupiter's Ring DEX+6?
Ring2: Rajas Ring STR+5 DEX+5
Back: Atheling Mantle Att+20 DA+3 or Vigilance Mantle+1 STR+5 DEX+5 or Cuchulain's Mantle Acc+5 STR+4 DEX+4?
Waist: Soil Belt fTP multipler +0.1 +Acc (are the WS belts and necks worth it for crit WSs? I think maybe Anguinus Belt Acc+15 Att+15 DA+1 would be better...if I could get it)
Legs: Tumbler Trunks DEX+5 Att+18
Feet: Rager Ledelsens Acc+10 Att+12

I'm guessing all my questions will amount to "It depends" because that's just how it is in this game. But in the general sense, those are my current issues with what I'm considering using.