Common mobs with odd properties

[Callisto]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

I can't confirm if Buffalos DA, never payed that close attention to it.

And no, neither of those mobs have MP outside of the few NM ones.

[Armando]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

Hm. Well, it looks like I might be able to survive a run-in with the lower level Buffalos to check. But first I need to collect more Def and Evasion numbers from higher level Goobbues so I can figure out why their Evasion is differing slightly from the formulas.

Thanks for confirming Goobbues and Manticores. I didn't think so, but I've never had a job with Aspir so I'm never 100% sure for odd mobs like those. That'll make things easier.

Taking a closer look at the formulas for mob stats, they actually use the same formulas we do (barring HP obviously) except that their formulas don't change at 61+. And with that in mind, I can confirm that their stats are being calculated with their sub at full main job level.

[Kafeen]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

Everything in the game has a job and sub, even if it doesn't have the spells for its job learned or S-E doesn't tell them to use its JAs on occasion. In most cases, mobs have the same sub as their main (thus why I list Ahrimans, Ghosts, and Hecteyes as unusual.) This does have an effect - although the mob wouldn't gain any new traits, it DOES affect its stats. A WAR/WAR mob is going to have more STR and VIT than a WAR/BLM mob.

Sorry but I still don't buy this. Mobs are not players, there is no reason for them to be given jobs similar to a player. Its makes much more sence for mobs stats to be based on their race rather than their stats being based on ther job based on their race. Its just adding another layer of complexity where one isn't needed. If mobs aren't going to use jobs abilities of jobs then why provide the job?

Ahriman
Indeed WAR/BLM mobs.

Yet they have high MDEF. Neither WAR or BLM provides any bonus to magic defence. Magic defence boosts are only given to WHM and RDM, but if they had these jobs then surely they'd cast cure.

both Crabs and Beetles are PLD/PLD mobs

Yet neither has any kind of magic. Yes, they have MP and high defence but these could just as easily be ramily / family traits rather than job traits.

WAR/WAR mob is going to have more STR and VIT than a WAR/BLM

A mobs strength doesn't have to be related to its job. An Elvaan naturally has more STR than a Tarutaru with the same job, level, equipment, merits, etc.

Some mobs have higher attack, some have higher defence, some are more evasive, some are magic users. This is down to balencing, it does't mean that they're WARs, PLDs, THFs, BLMs.

No mobs use ANY job ability assosiated any of the jobs in FFXI with the exception of some beastmen, for example Dynamis mobs which will use the 2 hour abilities of their jobs and a few NMs but even in the case of the NMs they're usually specially triggered rather than common abilties. Some mobs may have similar equvelant techniques such a beetle's defence boost move but also have other unique abilities unlike they're so called job equivalents such as beetles's evasion boost, something a PLD doesn't get.

[Mhurron]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

Sorry but I still don't buy this. Mobs are not players, there is no reason for them to be given jobs similar to a player. Its makes much more sence for mobs stats to be based on their race rather than their stats being based on ther job based on their race. Its just adding another layer of complexity where one isn't needed. If mobs aren't going to use jobs abilities of jobs then why provide the job?

If they didn't SE would have to have created 2 systems, one for players and one for mobs instead of just creating and testing one system and adding mob specific rules and exceptions as needed.

The current system takes into account Job, Subjob and race when calculating stats. It does this for both players and mobs. Using this system across the board reduces complexity, not adds to it.

[Armando]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

Sorry but I still don't buy this. Mobs are not players, there is no reason for them to be given jobs similar to a player. Its makes much more sence for mobs stats to be based on their race rather than their stats being based on ther job based on their race. Its just adding another layer of complexity where one isn't needed. If mobs aren't going to use jobs abilities of jobs then why provide the job?

How is it complex to assign a job to a mob and let the formulas take care of the rest? That aside, I NEVER SAID MOB STATS DON'T VARY ACCORDING TO MOB FAMILY. Crabs and Beetles are both PLD/PLD mobs, but Beetles have higher VIT, much like a Galka PLD has higher VIT than an Elvaan PLD.

Yet they have high MDEF. Neither WAR or BLM provides any bonus to magic defence. Magic defence boosts are only given to WHM and RDM, but if they had these jobs then surely they'd cast cure.

They do not have Magic Defense Bonus. They have a certain amount of Magic Damage Taken -X%, which as discussed above, is not the same thing. And Magic Damage Taken -X% is not a job trait. Again, I never said mob families don't have their own quirks. It's just that few do. This thread is about those mobs that are odd.

Yet neither has any kind of magic. Yes, they have MP and high defence but these could just as easily be ramily / family traits rather than job traits.

Oh, come on. You're telling me it's a coincidence that Crabs and Beetles have +10 Defense from 10-29, but then at 30 they get an extra 12 (Defense Bonus II), and then at 50 they get an extra 13 on top of that (Defense Bonus III)? Besides, a caster mob does not have to have spells. Tell me something, when a RDM reaches Lv.41, does it already have Refresh on its spell list? No, he/she needs to learn it first. S-E can easily choose to have a caster mob with no spells just like they can give WHM mobs Banish III.

No mobs use ANY job ability assosiated any of the jobs in FFXI with the exception of some beastmen, for example Dynamis mobs which will use the 2 hour abilities of their jobs and a few NMs but even in the case of the NMs they're usually specially triggered rather than common abilties.

Pankration disagrees with you, and Mandragora are not Beastmen. Or are you going to tell me they're not MNKs now? And your theory has another huge, gaping hole: Beastmen don't use any of their JAs except some NMs. Therefore there's no reason why any other mob can't be a WAR mob that doesn't use its JAs either.

The formulas do not lie. That's all that matters.

[Ziero]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

Sorry but I still don't buy this. Mobs are not players, there is no reason for them to be given jobs similar to a player. Its makes much more sence for mobs stats to be based on their race rather than their stats being based on ther job based on their race. Its just adding another layer of complexity where one isn't needed. If mobs aren't going to use jobs abilities of jobs then why provide the job?
Yet they have high MDEF. Neither WAR or BLM provides any bonus to magic defence. Magic defence boosts are only given to WHM and RDM, but if they had these jobs then surely they'd cast cure.
Yet neither has any kind of magic. Yes, they have MP and high defence but these could just as easily be ramily / family traits rather than job traits.
A mobs strength doesn't have to be related to its job. An Elvaan naturally has more STR than a Tarutaru with the same job, level, equipment, merits, etc.
Some mobs have higher attack, some have higher defence, some are more evasive, some are magic users. This is down to balencing, it does't mean that they're WARs, PLDs, THFs, BLMs.
No mobs use ANY job ability assosiated any of the jobs in FFXI with the exception of some beastmen, for example Dynamis mobs which will use the 2 hour abilities of their jobs and a few NMs but even in the case of the NMs they're usually specially triggered rather than common abilties. Some mobs may have similar equvelant techniques such a beetle's defence boost move but also have other unique abilities unlike they're so called job equivalents such as beetles's evasion boost, something a PLD doesn't get.

The very fact that Pankration mobs not only have jobs when their images are captured, but are limited in the amount of jobs they can be given, disproves everything you just said.

And though they don't use the job abilities...because it wouldn't make sense for normal mobs to have timed abilities...they do have the job traits and base stat growth...which is how their jobs are being mathmatically deduced.

[Callisto]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

Sorry but I still don't buy this. Mobs are not players, there is no reason for them to be given jobs similar to a player. Its makes much more sence for mobs stats to be based on their race rather than their stats being based on ther job based on their race. Its just adding another layer of complexity where one isn't needed. If mobs aren't going to use jobs abilities of jobs then why provide the job?

Except...this has been well, documented, with, y'know, actual math. Mob traits are based both on their race and their jobs, and this has had the hell tested out of it. Using the Studio Ghoblin info players have for a long time now been able to accurately predict the VIT, AGI, Defense, and Evasion of monsters. Do some research, or better yet, some testing before you denounce it.

Yet they have high MDEF. Neither WAR or BLM provides any bonus to magic defence. Magic defence boosts are only given to WHM and RDM, but if they had these jobs then surely they'd cast cure.

Many races have a straight % magic damage multiplier, some is in their favor, some take more, but it is easily shown with math.

No mobs use ANY job ability assosiated any of the jobs in FFXI with the exception of some beastmen, for example Dynamis mobs which will use the 2 hour abilities of their jobs and a few NMs but even in the case of the NMs they're usually specially triggered rather than common abilties. Some mobs may have similar equvelant techniques such a beetle's defence boost move but also have other unique abilities unlike they're so called job equivalents such as beetles's evasion boost, something a PLD doesn't get.

Normal Orc DRGs use Jump as well, and it's not a TP move of theirs.

Really, do some research and contribute before talking out of your ass about stuff that many people have put lots of time and effort into figuring out.

[Ziero]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

Normal Orc DRGs use Jump as well, and it's not a TP move of theirs.

I thought it was a normal TP move.

[Armando]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

Ok, Abyss Worm soul plate is BLM, and Lesser Manticore soul plate is WAR. Pankration has yet to lie to me.

I thought it was a normal TP move.

I'll confirm in a minute or two, but I believe it's not a TP move.

[Callisto]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

I believe they can just use it stand-alone. I've seen them do Jump > Aerial Wheel quite a few times.

Armando: Go snag a Kirin Soul Plate, I'm curious lol...

[Armando]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

It's a TP move.

Armando: Go snag a Kirin Soul Plate, I'm curious lol...

I'm only on ZM4, and I'm not dying for you =P

EDIT: Seems to be their TP move of choice, for that matter. It's done it 3 times in a row already.
EDIT2: Also interesting, although it's a TP move, they don't have to "ready" the attack. So it's kind of like a Dancer JA in that respect.

[Mhurron]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

I'm not dying for you

If not for him, do it for the science. Information wants to be free!

[Armando]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

I'll get back to you after I have Sky access ;P

Now to get Uppercut'd by Old Goobbues in Teh Tree.

[Callisto]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

EDIT2: Also interesting, although it's a TP move, they don't have to "ready" the attack. So it's kind of like a Dancer JA in that respect.

Aha. That would be why I didn't believe it was a TP move. How did you discern that it was for sure?
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Add: I'm fighting Kirin a few times tomorrow night. I've never even looked at Pankration but maybe I'll try to get a plate from him, though I doubt I'd be able to land it. :/

[Armando]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

Pankration is pretty simple to "get into." The only advice I'll give you is to look up all the conversions from Imperial Currency to the "Jettons" you need to purchase the Soultrapper (2 Jettons,) stack of Soul Plates (2 Jettons,) and turn Soul Plates into Soul Reflectors (1 Jetton + 1 Ice Crystal.) At first I kept going back from the AH to The Pit bringing single Imperial Bronze Pieces (1 Jetton each, 1k at Midgard) without realizing that a 2.3k Imperial Mythril Piece would get me 30 Jettons, or that an Imperial Gold Piece (9k) would get me 300 Jettons.

As for Jump:
1) Pull Orc with Flash, keep Stoneskin/Phalanx up. After waiting a long time and getting no response, become impatient and move on to step 2.
2) Quickly bring down the Orcish Impaler to <25% HP. Note how much TP you gave it in the process. Cast Dia until it has 100 TP. Notice how it reacts immediately with Jump.
3) Give it 100 TP again, notice how it uses Jump again the instant the 10th Dia lands.