How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

[Vyuru]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

I completely agree. This is, sadly, why games like WoW are beating FFXI. When you force strangers to work together, it ends in tears.

I don't think that's entirely true, I agree with Karinya's post, and I'd also like to add that certain big chain electronic stores such as Best Buy do not even carry FFXI at all, while they have like 5 racks of WoW games/expansions.

I wonder what he/she would do in a PT if someone else all of a sudden "d/c'ed"...
... and wait to see if they are coming back.

Actually I'm a bit curious too, Omgwtfbbqkitten, what do you do when faced with a fake DC'er?

[DakAttack]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

It's impossible to really tell unelss they've made their plans public, but I'll always have an awesome excuse just incase anybody asks.

[Renaissance 2K]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

What exactly does a fake disconnect accomplish?

You don't fool anyone by red-dotting. You don't fool anyone by not coming back. Unless the wiring in your home was threaded by Thomas Edison himself, you don't blow fuses or screw up your router on a daily basis. This suspicious is all-but-confirmed if you are a support job or a tank. I think I've seen a run-of-the-mill melee disconnect once in my climb from 60-75. I feel like I go through three support jobs per party, however.

Many of them don't even have the decency to give the party a chance. They wait until everyone uses the Runic Portal and disappears.

Or, what about the BRD that didn't like how I was overwriting her half-leveled Baraera spells with my Pantaloon-boosted fully-leveled Barwatera spell for Cursed Sphere? Four rounds of that, and without saying a word, she disappeared and never came back.

People remember these things. The funny thing about FFXI these days is that there are usually hundreds of people seeking at 75 for merits and like six seeking in any other level range. It's quite ridiculous. If you're dedicated to leveling, you're going to see a lot of the same names in the search box. If you invite the same person twice and they disconnect twice, you're going to be very reluctant to invite them again. Screw over enough people and your instant invites may suddenly become a bit more sparse.

It's just avoiding confrontation. You're not fooling anybody, and the people who do their job properly have better memories than the drones that just race to 75 and take no prisoners along the way.

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

Prime example........

Last night was in a party that started out tremendously well in Caedarva... and then, well... yeah.

Setup: NIN loldrg (ate meat kabobs, had thf sub) DRK MNK SMN RDM.

I asked the pt leader what happened to the person they had before and they said it was a RDM that dc'ed and never came back. (rofl!!!) So I ran my happy azz over to Caedarva becuz I was 13k tnl for 70 and thought I'd just deal w/the pt and any problems it had just to get my level.

Got there, joined up, starts out, everyone is afk for 10mins. Fine, no big deal, they were waiting on a replacement. PT starts up, we immediately start getting ADDS from flys and the occasional Imp that pops up in camp. Np, I'm a RDM, very adept at keeping sleep/grav/bind up. We swing it. Time passes, we're getting ok xp and after 30 mins I find we made 2.5k. Hey np, you know I need LV70 and this pt is here and workin it, fine I'll stay.

Well I inform the pt about resituating camp to keep from getting adds and maybe tossing in a SC for me and the SMN. They comply much to my surprise. We start doing way better. After an hour passes we made 7k the last hour. I was impressed. This goes on for another hour, I get my level, I'm happier than a pig in mud. However, a little after I level, SMN has to go he's got SKY or something. Cool. Well, he goes, we wait around for 15mins looking for more, when a very cool BRD pops that I pt'ed with on a previous night. She's good. We get here, life looks promising again.

Now, we're in phase two of this pt. And when the BRD gets there, the MNK needs to go. lolz Well, ok, so we let him go we wait around for a replacement, 10 mins pass, we find a THF. Fine. NIN can use some hate cuz all those melee kept pulling it off from time to time.

We get the THF, we start, no one discussess a skillchain but just jumps right into killing and we do this for 2 full chains.

Now, I the THF job. I have absolutely nothing against it. But, this particular THF was LV 70 and was not keeping TA on the NIN on a consistent basis, if ever at all. In fact, he was going off the DRG several times and causing me to dump out too much Curing.

Well, it was after the THF joined that we start to have our first round of death since I had been there for over 2 1/2 hours. lol Granted, after we all appreciatively asked the THF if he could keep TA+(insert your ws of choice here) on the NIN to help w/healing since I'm by myself, he says ok NP and we continue.

He does none of it. He's suddenly throwing his WS after someone else uses something to try to SC w/them. Now, I am getting furious at this point because this guy is compromising what we had previously and not trying to really pay attention to anything we're saying. The leader was JP and spoke english and he kept throwing out those little evil monsterous looking emoticons because he was so irritated lol.

Well, we keep on going, now we're starting to get adds alot and w/2 flies, 1 spamming aoe alot, we eventually start getting death on a more regular basis. Twice the NIN had to change to WHM by going back to town and coming out to get us, because no one would accept a Raise 1. haha Well, that's when the NIN decided to leave and gets us another NIN and now this new NIN starts to require alot of curing to keep him alive suddenly. For reason he's taking alot of damage, I check his gear and he is built for DD..... LOL he had no evade equipment at all. He was LV70 however. At this point I was done lol.

I figure, well, maybe someone else can make sense of this pt. I got LV 70 so I accomplished what I wanted and the party was certainly not fun anymore, so I asked a 68 LV RDM who was within everyone else's level and left once he arrived. Because the Imps were spamming Silence a few times, I gave the BRD the rest of my echo drops and she was grateful.

Now, normally if a party really suxx0r bad I won't invite someone in my place. But, I was just frustrated by this point and figured maybe a fresh face should offer some assistance.

So yeah, there's ur typical pt scenario.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

Actually I'm a bit curious too, Omgwtfbbqkitten, what do you do when faced with a fake DC'er?

I think there is a distinction that if you stage a d/c because you had an event and knew it was coming, you came to a PT to just leech a little EXP and leave. I've seen people do this to camp HNMs ot just get a Dynamis buffer (cap your dame EXP, you don't need merits right away). It just begs the question why you LFPed to begin with

I've also seen people break PT because they have a static, which I consider doing the same thing. Why EXP with PTs if you have a static? There's no rule that says a static has to have everyone at the same level.

I've looked people up after they did this and railed them for it. But I think these instances are totally different from d/cing out of frustration. If you don't come back for a good, long time, who's to say you fake d/ced save for somone who's totally jaded? Internet connection could have gone down, power could have gone you, personal emergency or something of that nature.

A few month back, I was suffering from a form of seizures where I'd go into a daze (in addition to memory loss and loss of emotional control) and be incable of doing a lot of things, even play games. Video games weren't always the trigger, it could happen anywhere for me at anytime until I had the right medication.

I think I'm entitled to spare a party my life story and take care of myself first. There were instances where I fake d/ced due to that.

You don't fool anyone by red-dotting. You don't fool anyone by not coming back. Unless the wiring in your home was threaded by Thomas Edison himself, you don't blow fuses or screw up your router on a daily basis. This suspicious is all-but-confirmed if you are a support job or a tank.

Prime example of "jaded."

Might apply to me, but its not fair to sterotype others. In any event, no NIN, PLD, WHM, BRD, COR or RDM owes you EXP just because they exist at your level. Think I like being badgered to PT when I'm not seeking?

And is it any less fair to invite a BLM to main heal? People do this, they get invited to play a way they do not wish to. I'll concede a RDM should not main heal if they don't want to, but when you seek without mentioning that fact, its misleading. But if someone gets invited to play what they view as against their true role, they've every right to leave, inflexible though they may be.

[Eohmer]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

I think there is a distinction that if you stage a d/c because you had an event and knew it was coming, you came to a PT to just leech a little EXP and leave. I've seen people do this to camp HNMs ot just get a Dynamis buffer (cap your dame EXP, you don't need merits right away). It just begs the question why you LFPed to begin with

Regardless of the situation, it's still rude to do that without a word to the party.

I've had people say, "Guys, I'm really sick right now, so if I DC, then that's why."
Some others would say, "We have a major storm coming through, so if I DC, the power went out."
At one point, *I* told my party that invited me that I had a crappy router at the time, so if I DC, I wasn't bother going to try and come back only to DC again, they understood, and we went on to party for a while. I did after a while, but I know they weren't going to make them wait to wonder if I was coming back. They knew. That's it.

They may be lying or not, who knows, but atleast they were considerate enough to tell us they might unexpectedly leave. That's when we take the opportunity to invite a replacement, instead of sitting on our hands doing nothing wondering... "Hmm, are they coming back? Let's give them 10 more minutes."

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

I think there is a distinction that if you stage a d/c because you had an event and knew it was coming, you came to a PT to just leech a little EXP and leave.

[...]

But I think these instances are totally different from d/cing out of frustration.

If you say so, but how exactly do your party member tell the difference? One is d/c, make them wait; the other is also d/c, make them wait...

A few month back, I was suffering from a form of seizures where I'd go into a daze (in addition to memory loss and loss of emotional control) and be incable of doing a lot of things, even play games. Video games weren't always the trigger, it could happen anywhere for me at anytime until I had the right medication.

I think I'm entitled to spare a party my life story and take care of myself first. There were instances where I fake d/ced due to that.

Sorry to hear about your health problem. =/

Still, isn't there something in auto-translator that says "I don't feel well."? S-E obviously considers one's health to be a legitimate issue, and you should be able to leave party for that reason. (Or any reason, really, as long as it's reasonable.)

[Renaissance 2K]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

care of myself first. There were instances where I fake d/ced due to that.
Prime example of "jaded."
Might apply to me, but its not fair to sterotype others. In any event, no NIN, PLD, WHM, BRD, COR or RDM owes you EXP just because they exist at your level. Think I like being badgered to PT when I'm not seeking?
And is it any less fair to invite a BLM to main heal? People do this, they get invited to play a way they do not wish to. I'll concede a RDM should not main heal if they don't want to, but when you seek without mentioning that fact, its misleading. But if someone gets invited to play what they view as against their true role, they've every right to leave, inflexible though they may be.

Doing it once is one thing. Doing it multiple times and expecting to get away with it is something else entirely. I'm saying from my own personal experience that the number of support jobs that disconnected and never came back was exponentially superior to the number of melees that disconnected and never came back. I'm not saying all support jobs do. Hell, I'm a support job and I don't do that.

I've also had a number of RDMs and BRDs that have tried to melee Heraldic Imps in Caedarva Mire through all the Deafening Tantara spam. I'm not saying all of them do it.

During my second Dynamis ever, a storm rolled through my humble suburban town and knocked out power from 8:00pm to 2:00am. It happens. (By the way, if you've ever wanted to add a sauna onto your house, I suggest ripping down some power lines in the middle of a summer heat wave. It's much less expensive.)

During one of my first experience parties in Aht Urghan, my then-five-year-old sister was bouncing a basketball in our family room where my wireless router lives. The ball escaped from her, bounced off the router and knocked off one of its antennae, and then my sister proceeded to rip the DC Adapter out of the wall trying to retrieve her ball. I disconnected, naturally. It happens.

When I finally entered Caedarva Mire range, we invited a RDM to our party. The name of this RDM escapes me. We all used the Runic Portal, and the RDM disconnected without ever coming back. It happens.

After gaining a level, I put my flag up once again and tried to get a party. The setup was similar to the one I had the day before. The leader (different from the previous one) invited the same RDM. We all used the Runic Portal, and the RDM disconnected without ever coming back. Uhhh...

The next day, I sat seeking for a while and decided to see who was in my level range. I see the same RDM, one level higher than he was the day before. I sent him a /tell. "So, something up with your connection? You seem to be disconnecting a lot lately..." No response. Ten minutes later, I was still seeking, and he was in Caedarva Mire. Uhhh...

Again, I'm not saying all high-demand jobs do this, and those that do certainly aren't so obvious about it, but it happens, and not everyone is so innocent about it. Someone in my Garrison linkshell recently made a post on our linkshell website complaining about people leaving early without giving any advance notice. A significant portion of these departures occur immediately after obtaining item, or - in the case that was referenced in this post - immediately after a run that doesn't go so well (not going so well being defined as, for example, somebody mistaking Wave 3 for Wave 4 and failing to pull a mob away from the alliance... 'twas messy). Half of these people are camping an NM or in an EXP party a few minutes after saying "sorry gtg rl stuff". Yes, I'm sure some of those people have real-life things to attend to, but the assumption that it's okay to waste everyone else's (be it 5 people in an EXP party or 17 people in an alliance) time so you can make a clean escape is extremely selfish. Some of these disconnects are also way, way too convenient for their own good. If you were doing Dynamis and one of your RDMs said "sorry my grandma just died gtg" after winning the lot on a Duelist's Chapeau, would you expect to ever see them again?

Am I jaded? Yea, I am. It's this sort of behavior that makes meriting such a chore, and the behavior is going to propagate further if people continue to think that they're getting away with it.

I'm extremely sorry to hear about your own personal health issues, however. That's obviously a very private matter that I wouldn't expect anyone to have to discuss with their party leader to accept an invite.

"Hey, wanna party?"
"Sure, but I should warn you... I have seizures, so if I stop responding for a few minutes, it means I'm passed out by my computer and may have been taken to the hospital."
"...Oh sorry, the leader invited somebody else."
"But your name is yellow. Aren't you the leader?"
"... ... ... BABABOOEY BABABOOEY HOWARD STERN'S PENIS BABABOOEY BABABOOEY!"
";_;"

If one of those impatient support jobs were leveling DRG or PUP or some other less-than-mainstream job, how would they feel if their tank or Refresh or healer decided to disconnect at regular intervals? Think of everyone else's perspective.

[Akashimo]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

But isn't reasonable outside the vocabulary of ToAU parties?

[Kholdstare]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

I don't think that's entirely true, I agree with Karinya's post, and I'd also like to add that certain big chain electronic stores such as Best Buy do not even carry FFXI at all, while they have like 5 racks of WoW games/expansions.

While I do concede that WoW gets a lot more "press" so to speak, I have heard many complaints about FFXI "forcing people to party." I've had people I know quit FFXI for WoW because "FFXI is just too restrictive." and WoW gives them more freedom.

Yes, comparing FFXI and WoW is like apples and oranges, but WoW's orange makes FFXI's apple look like garbage in the eyes of a lot of people. When exping in FFXI must be done a certain way or you won't get any exp at all, (see: Need 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 support, 3 DD, usually including a BLM. Also, if you are any job that uses a two-handed weapon, or a job with a 1-handed weapon that does not sub NIN, we do not want you.") and WoW and similar games say "You can EXP any way you want, any time you want, without fear of ridicule," it's kinda difficult to resist the allure of that.

And to say that WoW is full of high level n00bs is the biggest example of the pot calling the kettle black that I have seen in a long while. If FFXI's party system prevents high-level n00bs, then being inept, ignorant, arrogant, and flatout stupid is, apparently, not the proper definition of the term "n00b."

But isn't reasonable outside the vocabulary of ToAU parties?

I sometimes think that the only term that IS in their vocabulary is "expendable."

[Murphie]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

I don't think any amount of rational discussion on this side of the issue is going to convince BBQ otherwise. Look at all of the unanswered questions, counterpoints, etc.

May as well call this one.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

I don't think any amount of rational discussion on this side of the issue is going to convince BBQ otherwise. Look at all of the unanswered questions, counterpoints, etc.

May as well call this one.

Oh yes, because I'm supposed to spend my day replying to every post in the thread. You may have that kind of time on your hands, but not all of us do.

Was it rude? Yes.

Is it my right to leave when I choose? Yes, unless you are paying for my account and my rent and my bills you can't tell me WTF to do.

You sure seemed to think it was OK for any random player or PT to waltz into a BST's camp and bring their EXP to a screeching halt. I believe the rationale was that the BST didn't own the zone. The BST could have been there first and it is rude to crash somone's camp. Yet fake d/c is a horrendous evil that cannot be forgiven because... it can (sometimes) bring a PT's EXP to a screeching halt, correct?

If you say that a BST isn't entitled to an EXP camp because no one is entitled to EXP, you must also concede you are not obligated to stay in an EXP PT as no one is entitled to EXP, regardless of job class. To say otherwise is to contradict yourself.

I'll try to find a way to bow out more politely from now on, but I owe nothing to a PT if they aren't going to play to their level. And I think it would be underhanded to ask someone to take my place if I felt that way about a PT.

[Murphie]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

Yawn. Nice attempt at distraction there, however. I don't know what I'm talking about because I have too many posts, or something. Well, whatever, BBQ.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

I'll try to find a way to bow out more politely from now on

That's all I wanted to hear. ^_^

[BurningPanther]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

EDIT: Yarg. Why can't you delete your own posts?