How come JP don't like to pt with me?

[Jenifa]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

I can teach some of you some manners

rofl

I have no problems with JP PT's - thanks for the offer, but i'll have to pass!!

[Nazo]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

Why does everyone seem to think that JP players not wanting to party with them is some big anti-NA conspiracy?
Japan is a very group oriented society, a lot of emphasis is placed on establish harmony in a group (seriously I've been on road trips with Japanese where they've spent 30 mins debating who should go in what car for the best conversation dynamics on the way). Being with people they can't communicate with makes them uncomfortable; something I've seen a lot in mixed parties I've been in is the Japanese members commenting to each other how difficult they find English. A lot of Japanese I've met are quite embarassed by their poor English ability. {English} {Too Weak} in autotranslate would come out as English language, and could be an expression of their language skills, not their evaluation of our playing skills.

Having said that, I find there is a difference between Western and Japanese parties. Of course, there are good and bad players on all sides, where I find JP parties have the edge is their ability to function as a group and FFXI is very much a group oriented game. The fact that we are here discussing things on a forum shows a level of interest in the game above that of the average player so a lot of the complaints against western players probably don't apply to many people here but I've met a lot of rude, selfish NA / EU players who weren't willing to adapt their play style to suit the group they were with, conversely I can't remember ever having been in a JP party in which anyone really stood out as bad.

[Murphie]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

The fact that we are here discussing things on a forum shows a level of interest in the game above that of the average player so a lot of the complaints against western players probably don't apply to many people here

You make a really good point here, and it's something I wish more people would keep in mind when they get all up in arms about a comment someone makes about players they've met. Of course, I also wish that people wouldn't generalize and say "All the NA players I've played with lately have been terrible" or "All of the JP's I have invited recently have been snobs".

I think it's pretty safe to say that most of the folks who come here regularly are a cut above your average player. We care about doing our best in every situation, and our presence here shows that (it also shows that we are chatty - or maybe that's just me). So when someone says something negative about some folks they have grouped with, try to keep in mind that these people are generally talking about your average player. Not your above average player that cares about keeping up to date on strategies and etiquette.

Or something. Maybe I'm just rambling here.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

(1) You're UK. How long have you been playing the EU client?

(2) This game is about 4 years old starting out in Japan, give or take a few months.

(3) NA players have been playing for at least a year longer than any EU Client player, barring any import players.

This should answer your questions. The JP players have played this (Collectively and figuratively) far longer than most NA players and definitely longer than all but ten or fifteen EU importers.

On aQuarium, our leader is JP. A few members are European players that have a good grasp on the japanese language. They're not Japanese living abroad in Europe. They're European players. I'm the third "NA" player in this "Japanese" LS.

Erm... {Congratulations}?

No - I don't really have any questions. I've been playing since day one of the European release. I don't think you get the point though...

Race doesn't matter where skill is concerned. It did at first, when we were all newbies in the Dunes. As we started to understand more and more, those gaps closed, and our own personal traits took over.

The qualities listed - don't 'fly' with good players, not just the JP's. And to assume that I'd put up with it, would be a mistake on your part.

The world is at the same level of skill now. There are good players and bad players. And you know what.. they're just players - because race doesn't matter a damn anymore. There are good players, and bad players - of all races.

And yes.. I'm British. You do know though.. that doesn't make one iota of difference to my ability to play this game. And saying - You're UK, how long have you been playing this? reinforces the stupity of it all.

Good gamers, bad gamers - end of story.

[Mysza]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

Oh that old Euro/US and Japanese drama again.

Let me write history of FFXI as I see it:

I play FFXI since US release, and I remember that for first few weeks or maybe month JP were very helpful and somehow curious about us newcomers. Then it started to change, my first party in VD had pleasure to get this comment from JP: "English no thanks you are not optimal". He meant that we all don't have subjobs and our xp/hour is low maybe 500/hour while they JP doing awesome 2000/hour xp.

Few weeks after that "Brady's Guide to suckage in FFXI" came out, and game was infested with WAR/WHM using great swords and polearms. No wonder JP did not want to party with us, they just finished education of their own, last tanking BLM/WAR and were all busy with Genki 1, AF quests and grinding to 75.

Then We had orgasms when party killed Goblin Smithy that gave 220xp without chain. Well survivors at least , as nobody cared about dead bodies of WHM and BLM. At this time JP were discovering world of endless chaining of VT's for massive xp / hour.

I remember my first party in jungles, it was silent place with few goblins and all of us happy pulling mandragoras. Then 2 weeks later our mighty WAR/WHM army came out of Qfim and hell of endless Goblin trains started. I blamed dumb players for it, but Japanese blamed all us gajin invaders. It's when Japanese understood that helping us zergs will make everything just worse as we progress to next holy "JP Onry" area. At least after jungles all our WAR/WHM were busy begging for PLD quest in Sandoria, but this time it took ages because no JP wanted to help them anymore. It's when we discovered that DRK/WAR can tank only one mob before he need to be replaced.

After few more weeks first of our invincible Dragoons hit brick wall called papyrus and Genki 1. I think at this point first "JP ONRY" comments emerged, our friends started to be feed up with constant begging for help, gil, demanding to party with gimps and all that usual things that are duty of high level players.

Then playerbase discovered RMT, or rather RMT business discovered us. Begging for gil, help and gimped gear suddenly ended. All overfarmed areas like Batalia became empty in matter of few weeks. Whining about "how long it takes to farm" were replaced with whining about "how big is inflation in FFXI". Every single NA player started to wear "standard" hauby, those rich used uber SH, WHM without Vermy was gimp. At this point JP blamed us for all RMT forgetting that they had RMT websites long before IGE offered first gil and that some of HNMLS leaders were selling gil for nice profit. At this point I remember all Japanese had "JP Onry" in comments, all but their DRK and DRG, that was their riot agains us gajins and RMT'ers.

Well it is totally not our fault that JP are raciest scumbags and do not wat to join our party at every request we have.

Ps. For those that cannot read my Engrish ramblings: It was my try on sarcasm.

[ikkleste]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

I've heard that question so many times. Sometimes even in shout at whitegate. Japanese people are actually really friendly people. They're not racist, it's just that english speakers have really bad manners and no respect sometimes. So let me help you get into some japanese pts and hopefully, I can teach some of you some manners and give EN players a good name because I'm tired of the bad sterotype we get.

#1. I see this more and more often, and it royally pisses me off when I'm a pt leader as well. DO NOT REPLACE YOURSELF. You might think you're doing the pt leader a favor by replacing yourself and leaving as soon as your replacement comes to reduce downtime, but this is NOT TRUE. Here's the reason why. The party you were in might already be exhausted from however many hours you have partied. When someone new is invited, the party is obligated to gain a reasonable amount of xp before breaking. This is to make his (the replacements) trip to where ever you were lvling worth it. How would you feel if you went to cape terrigan and the pt lasted for 1000 exp? If you were to get a replacement, ASK THE PT LEADER FIRST. PT leaders HATE it when you dont tell them before you invite a replacement. I can't emphasize how much hate. Because when the replacement comes, but the pt was going to break anyways, you get to leave without any hassle, while it is up to the pt leader to be the bearer of bad news to tell your replacement that the pt is breaking. Always ask pt leader if it is ok to replace if needed. Then it should be up to the pt leaders job to find out if the rest of the party had enough time to continue exping with a replacement. I've had tanks replace themselves with drks without saying a word until the replacement came. If you are party leader, then replacing yourself is out of the question. The leader abandoning his own party? That shows extremely bad leadership.

#2. Give at least a 30 minute warning before you leave. Not just a, {Have stuff to do}{see you again!} /ma "Warp" <me>. This is just common respect and at the same time gives the pt leader some time to decide whether to break pt or to find a replacement.

#3. Stop travelling ahead of the other members. For example, if I were to lvl in CN, and I invited you. Don't go to CN immediately. In fact, don't even leave jeuno for the sake of getting to CN faster until prompted by the pt leader. So what if you got to CN faster? You still need the rest of your pt before you begin. If you don't wait in jeuno, you're waiting in CN. Besides, if the whole pt travels together, any complications would be easier to resolve. If you aggro, your pt can help you kill it. On the other hand if you went solo and are far ahead of your pt, then got aggro, then the pt will have to find you a raise, wait for weakness, etc. Point is, going ahead of your pt doesn't make anything faster, but only increases chances of complications to happen.

#4. Don't question where the pt leader wants you to go. You might have gotten awesome xp in CN before, but never tried altepa. Don't argue with him to go to CN and just listen to him to go to altepa. He might have a particular party setup that works better with altepa and not as well in CN or vice versa. I've had so many people, especially at lower lvls, challenge where I wanted to xp even though they've never been to the places I recommend. Besides, he's the pt leader, not you, just listen to him. And one side note: Please please please don't spam {party}{camp}{where?} before the pt even started. When the leader is ready, he will tell you. Only exception to this is if he's taking an exceptionally long time to decide, but generally that will rarely ever happen.

#5. Stop leaving the party 20 minutes into fighting. Look, when you join a party, it's almost like a contract to stay for at least 1 and a half hour. In fact, if you can't stay for any longer than 2 hours, I'd advise you tell the pt leader that. It takes time to assemble a pt, to travel, then finally to xp. It really puts unecissary work on the pt leader to replace and what not.

These are the main things that come to mind right now. I'll add on to this if I think of anything else. Japanese honestly aren't racist people. In fact, they kind of envy american culture and music. It just so happens that mannerism is much more important in japan, and almost non existent in the states that give EN such a bad name. I'll admit, EN manners have improved a lot during the past year (at least during lvls 70-75). However, there are much much more improvement that we could make. I've had so many parties even in the 50-65 range that had manners comparable to what you find in valkurm dunes.

1) I've had party leaders get upset with me when trying to leave without finding a replacement (even when i give plenty of notice). While i'm with you and belive party leaders should find replacments, some people disagree.

2) No argument there, infact i'd say this is the most important of your points, communication. Let the party know when you are going, and then you've got time to discuss if a replacement is needed and who is organising it (and following that point 1 becomes moot)

3) Quite often it's simply a matter of convenience to do this... if i'm farming outside of CN, it's hardly productive to head to jeuno, just so we can all ride out there on our chocos together. Different people have different habits now, many HP in hometowns these days and then Outpost warp to whereever they are heading, it doesn't make sense to warp to quifm, run to jeuno so you can all hop a tele-altep together, when I can head straight there.

4) Personally upon reciveing an invite the first thing i do is ask where we're planning to go. Some places i just don't like exping in. I'm fine with a leader having a plan and wanting to head to wherever, but i would ask that they communicate it to the rest of us. and while i wouldn't spam {camp}{where?} i'd certainly ask and quite like an answer. WHile i'm trusting my nights partying to this leader, he needs to communicate to give me faith in him, i'm already blindly trusting him to put together a good party (most parties i get in i couldn't tell the leader from adam before we get started), theres no need for him to keep me in the dark over our camp.

5) I quite agree with this and would always let a pt leader know if i had less than an hour and a half t o play, if he wants he can find someone else. I tend to give warnings at 1hr and 30 and 15 mns before i have to leave. Additional to this i'd say that the leader needs to listen to his party when they tell them these things. Theres been times when i've been perfectly clear for 2hrs that i'm leaving at midnight only to have people give me guilt trips when i tell them it's time for me to leave. "i only need 400 exp" then "i only need 500 exp" once the first has dinged... It's not fair to ask people to stay when they've been perfectly clear about when they need to go.


Over all while a lot of these ideas you've posted represent the JP way of partying and we need to respect that, they also need to respect that sometimes there are other ways and sometimes other people will want to use these other ways. As soon as you are invited this is no longer a JP party and becomes an international party, and compremises should be made (from both sides) if points of contension come up. It shouldn't be about "if you get in a JP party here are their traditions, please follow them to make JP happier about westerners" it should be about compremising and communicating. Not only would that make JP/NA/EU relations smoother, but also improve 90% of all parties.

[JeanRC]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

Bad news for all of you is 90% jp at least play reasonable enough to get decent exp.
90% of english dont play reasonable enough to get decent exp.

End of story

[Murphie]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

Bad news for all of you is 90% jp at least play reasonable enough to get decent exp.
90% of english dont play reasonable enough to get decent exp.

End of story

And how exactly did you come to that conclusion?

[Raydeus]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

Bad news for all of you is 90% jp at least play reasonable enough to get decent exp.
90% of english dont play reasonable enough to get decent exp.

End of story

Bad news for you too, around 99% of all statistics are wrong.










(just kidding )

[Spinnthrift]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

Bad news for all of you is 90% jp at least play reasonable enough to get decent exp.
90% of english dont play reasonable enough to get decent exp.

End of story

You are aware that the first LS to kill AV - wasn't a Japanese one right?

Wake up and smell the coffee. Really. Make it a strong coffee.

[JeanRC]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

And how exactly did you come to that conclusion?

from 3 year of experience in ffxi.

It may not be 90% but certainly the ratio is as bad as it is.

Double Post Edited:

You are aware that the first LS to kill AV - wasn't a Japanese one right?

Wake up and smell the coffee. Really. Make it a strong coffee.

I dont know and dont really care beside i doubt you have anything to prove what you said since there are so many servers in ffxi.

[neighbortaru]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

Warning:
Do not go down the JP is better than EN is better than JP road. Locked threads ahead.

Double Post Edited:
actually Spinthrift is correct, the first LS to kill AV was Apathy on Remora. there's a thread on this board too.

[JeanRC]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

Warning:
Do not go down the JP is better than EN is better than JP road. Locked threads ahead.

Double Post Edited:
actually Spinthrift is correct, the first LS to kill AV was Apathy on Remora. there's a thread on this board too.

Its hard to prove all this since not everyone will go tell others they killed so and so HNM. I am not going to go into detals about how people get to know whichever LS on whichever server kill whichever HNM first since my kind of thinking of that is bad lol.

Also i dont care about who is better too. But i just try to invite whoever that can do their job well or pt with whoever that can do their job well be it english or japanese or whatever race or country you are from.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

Google is your friend.

With a monster of such notoriety as Absolute Virtue - it drew a crowd.. a big enough crowd to draw GM's as well cheering them on - as it had *never* been killed before. That is literally the level we are at now...

Everyone is on equal footing now. There are no huge bridges that leave us behind. There is now only one comparison which people should be making. Good gamers vs bad gamers. EoS.

[JeanRC]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

Google is your friend.

With a monster of such notoriety as Absolute Virtue - it drew a crowd.. a big enough crowd to draw GM's as well cheering them on - as it had *never* been killed before. That is literally the level we are at now...

Everyone is on equal footing now. There are no huge bridges that leave us behind. There is now only one comparison which people should be making. Good gamers vs bad gamers. EoS.

To what i see in ffxi, usually are the english who will go around telling people or putting pt comment or bazaar comment saying they killed so and so HNM or made video out of it or the crowd telling his friends to come watch it etc that make the big crowd. I never seen any japanese telling people they are killing so and so hnm or killed it etc but only english do it. So even if some japanese LS killed it first , i wount be surpise that they dont make a fuse out of it and everyone knowing it. Blah. I gonna stop since this gonna turn bad again