How come JP don't like to pt with me?

[Rinaminori]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

There is now only one comparison which people should be making. Good gamers vs bad gamers. EoS.

This could not be more true in my opinion.

[Tivul]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

I'd like to make a comment about those saying RMT is NA's fault...

From experiences in other games and such, I'm pretty sure less than half of those who sell gold/gil/plat/whatevercurrency aren't NA. Just coming from WoW, it's mostly chinese players who do it. I've recieved in-game mail giving me website URLs and I've been sent tells. And you could always tell it was a farming guild because all it consisted of was level 60 female rogues .

To add to that, if any of you guys follow gaming news, you'll notice NCsoft cracked down on two Korean players I believe it was who were selling gold. They actually had a huge fine (over 1 million I wanna say) and a prison sentence. So I don't think that JP players can complain about us ruining the economy of gaming.

To the main point of this thread, I think that all the points I would've liked to have made have already been stated . It's all an individual thing and how good you are is determined by how well you play, not the majority of the NA/JP in-game populace. And the rules of etiquette listed should go for all parties (blah blah, repeating what everyone else has already said )

[Draco Dagon]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

Bad news for all of you is 90% jp at least play reasonable enough to get decent exp.
90% of english dont play reasonable enough to get decent exp.

End of story

from 3 year of experience in ffxi.

It may not be 90% but certainly the ratio is as bad as it is.

Double Post Edited:


I dont know and dont really care beside i doubt you have anything to prove what you said since there are so many servers in ffxi.

I don't give a damn if you had a million years of experience. Statistics are just that, statistics, and people who rely on them-rely on outdated data. They should be taken with a grain of salt, and besides all of that-I doubt you've had a character on every server, each one leveled to 75, and played with English, European, AND Japanese players... all at the same time.

As others have stated, it's not JP v. NA v. EU, it's rather good players vs. bad players.

[Bishop]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

Warning:
Do not go down the JP is better than EN is better than JP road. Locked threads ahead.

Double Post Edited:
actually Spinthrift is correct, the first LS to kill AV was Apathy on Remora. there's a thread on this board too.

Sadly, that was not what this thread was intended for. It was only intended as a small guide to proper party etiquette in helping people get invites, and hopefully repeat invites from JP pts. Not saying JP are any better than EN, but it's just a guide IF you wanted to pt with JP.

rofl

I have no problems with JP PT's - thanks for the offer, but i'll have to pass!!

You quoted me horribly out of context. But if you dont have any problems, then dont read this thread. Simple as that.

1) I've had party leaders get upset with me when trying to leave without finding a replacement (even when i give plenty of notice). While i'm with you and belive party leaders should find replacments, some people disagree.

There will always be people that go against the flow. I'm certain that in most parties, they wouldn't appreciate you finding a replacement without notice.

3) Quite often it's simply a matter of convenience to do this... if i'm farming outside of CN, it's hardly productive to head to jeuno, just so we can all ride out there on our chocos together. Different people have different habits now, many HP in hometowns these days and then Outpost warp to whereever they are heading, it doesn't make sense to warp to quifm, run to jeuno so you can all hop a tele-altep together, when I can head straight there.

Of course there are exceptions. If you were in bastok and I'm in jeuno, we can always find different teleports to altepa. Or if you were already at CN, I wouldn't expect you to come back to jeuno to ride a chobi there again. Again, my scenario was applied to when the whole pt was already in jeuno. Maybe I forgot to address that, but I thought it would be obvious. I didn't want to go in length about OP warps and all that, because it really should be common sense. If you're there already, stay there, don't backtrack. But if you're all together from the start, travel together as well.

4) Personally upon reciveing an invite the first thing i do is ask where we're planning to go. Some places i just don't like exping in. I'm fine with a leader having a plan and wanting to head to wherever, but i would ask that they communicate it to the rest of us. and while i wouldn't spam {camp}{where?} i'd certainly ask and quite like an answer. WHile i'm trusting my nights partying to this leader, he needs to communicate to give me faith in him, i'm already blindly trusting him to put together a good party (most parties i get in i couldn't tell the leader from adam before we get started), theres no need for him to keep me in the dark over our camp.

The leader will not always have a set location before the pt is assembled. Different job combinations would offer advantages in different zones. You just need to put trust into your leader. And to ask the leader before you even join the pt, then to reject his offer because YOU had a bad experience there, is being quite narrow-minded dont you think? I've had bad experieneces everywhere, but great experiences in different parties in the same spots.

5) I quite agree with this and would always let a pt leader know if i had less than an hour and a half t o play, if he wants he can find someone else. I tend to give warnings at 1hr and 30 and 15 mns before i have to leave. Additional to this i'd say that the leader needs to listen to his party when they tell them these things. Theres been times when i've been perfectly clear for 2hrs that i'm leaving at midnight only to have people give me guilt trips when i tell them it's time for me to leave. "i only need 400 exp" then "i only need 500 exp" once the first has dinged... It's not fair to ask people to stay when they've been perfectly clear about when they need to go.

Lol, I feel the same way. When you have a set time to leave, if someone is @1000 or whatever, it's a no can do. I don't mind that I'm almost to next lvl (unless it's 36 to 37 for subjob reasons). Generally, if I just lvled in a pt, I end up dying somewhere along the way and lvl down anyways. So why bother with the dreaded "lvl down" message and just accept the fact that you'll just lvl up next pt.

As soon as you are invited this is no longer a JP party and becomes an international party, and compremises should be made (from both sides) if points of contension come up. It shouldn't be about "if you get in a JP party here are their traditions, please follow them to make JP happier about westerners" it should be about compremising and communicating.

You really can't compromise. Think about how that would work? So let's compromise as you've said. Ok, rules are, we travel together and you listen to the pt leader. But as a compromise, we all are allowed to find replacements without notice? Really, the points I've litsed in the original post were not meant solely for JP parties. It would be nice to see the same etiquette applied to EN parties.

[Aeni]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

Erm... {Congratulations}?

No - I don't really have any questions. I've been playing since day one of the European release. I don't think you get the point though...

Race doesn't matter where skill is concerned. It did at first, when we were all newbies in the Dunes. As we started to understand more and more, those gaps closed, and our own personal traits took over.

The qualities listed - don't 'fly' with good players, not just the JP's. And to assume that I'd put up with it, would be a mistake on your part.

The world is at the same level of skill now. There are good players and bad players. And you know what.. they're just players - because race doesn't matter a damn anymore. There are good players, and bad players - of all races.

And yes.. I'm British. You do know though.. that doesn't make one iota of difference to my ability to play this game. And saying - You're UK, how long have you been playing this? reinforces the stupity of it all.

Good gamers, bad gamers - end of story.

No, you're the one missing the point.

What I'm saying is your making out to be the most victimized victim on the planet. Boo hoo. So WTF? What I'm driving at is that many other players before you ruined the experience for you. Read it again. They ruined it for you before you even thought about picking up this MMO. You came on much later, so you're already at a point in the game where stereotyping is the norm and 90% of the players already have a fixed notion about how things work in this game.

You're saying that this shouldn't be the case. I'm saying you're too fresh to know why and how it came to be. If you played this from the beginning, you wouldn't be thinking the way you are right now.

[Icemage]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

My only considerations when partying with someone is their skill level and their ability to communicate effectively. Gear is secondary. Race doesn't even come into the equation.

Can't use the autotranslator, and can't speak anything I can understand? That's a problem. Not a problem with the player, and not really a problem with me either, but a problem when we're both trying to do something together.

Can't complete a skillchain or magic burst? Can't do damage without pulling aggro off of a decent tank? That's a problem. I don't enjoy partying with people who haven't got the fundamentals down. I'll do it if I have to, but you can't force me to like it.

As far as nationalities go, I'm more than happy to join an all-JP party as long as they'll tolerate my extremely limited understanding of romaji and frequent usage of the auto-translation function. By the same token, I never mind accepting JP players into my mostly-EN parties as long as they're able to make their needs known in some way, via translator or otherwise. That's the beauty of the translator - you don't have to speak the language to be able to communicate.

And for those who flag JP-only, well, all I can say is they're missing out. There's quite a lot of really excellent NA and EU players out there, just as there are a lot of quality JP players, and limiting your playing experience to those who only speak your language also limits the potential of your parties.


Icemage

[Spinnthrift]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

No, you're the one missing the point.

What I'm saying is your making out to be the most victimized victim on the planet. Boo hoo. So WTF? What I'm driving at is that many other players before you ruined the experience for you. Read it again. They ruined it for you before you even thought about picking up this MMO. You came on much later, so you're already at a point in the game where stereotyping is the norm and 90% of the players already have a fixed notion about how things work in this game.

You're saying that this shouldn't be the case. I'm saying you're too fresh to know why and how it came to be. If you played this from the beginning, you wouldn't be thinking the way you are right now.

No sunshine.. I am not *victimised*. Really. Nor do I feel the need to display my SH+1 and other really shiny shit in my sig.

Yes - a bunch of people may have set the stereotype before me, and I'm more than aware of it, having had many apologies from people assuming I'm American.

Am I saddened that I'm treated as a second rate citizen, by people who're actually my equals? Yes - but since I know I'm just as capable as them, if not more... I can shrug my shoulders, and congratulate those who've been accepted into the JP LS's, because I'm quite busy running my own European one - that's earned me my own fair share of compliments for being the shellholder.

Who's victimised here? Not me.. just tired of the racism. Really. I can static (and do) with my LS. I've earned enough of a reputation between the british, french, swedish, dutch, chinese and american to keep myself busy, but sadly - as I'm of the wrong skin colour - I'm treated like I'm dirt otherwise. Am I playing the drama queen. No.. Just stating a fact.

Congratulations (no really) on your JP LS. I'm sure you're very proud. Me personally.. I'm busy playing the game, just stating the obvious - that

a: there's no divide between JP/NA/EU any more.

b: what's left - is racism (or Xenophobia as Comet pointed out).

Don't like that? Go cry in your LS. I'm sure they'll bolster your ego. Because you know what Sunshine...? I'm not victimised. I'm a well respected player who has earned that in my community. So what if people who've never stepped outside of their microcosm never understand anything new? Only harming themselves and the reputation of their nation. Because I'll party with anyone, Black, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, African, Australian.. I could care less. Colour/Race means nothing to me, only attitude and competence. Pity certain other 'races' don't see that as a nation...

Only good gamers vs bad gamers... EoS.

[Cometgreen]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

Its hard to prove all this since not everyone will go tell others they killed so and so HNM.

Of course. It's hard to prove who first killed a major HNM, whereas it's common knowledge that 90% of NA players don't know how to get decent XP.

If you're going to challenge someone's claim, which has been supported by others in this thread, don't go around throwing baseless statistics (and then conclude with "End of story"). Just some friendly advice.

Aeni: I'm sure Spinnthrift knows how these stereotypes and cultural divisions came to be. He wasn't asking why some JP are anti-NA parties or vice versa, he was simply pointing out that this racism (well, xenophobia) does exist in the game, contrary to the OP's suggestion that all Japanese players are fair and are not racist.

[tdh]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

Wow... This started out as an oddly titled impromptu guide to party etiquette, and has completely snowballed out of control into goodness knows what the hell this is now. Seems to be a number of recent threads that have turned into JPN Vs Rest of the World Players.

Looking at the odds, this thread's more likely to be locked than it is to get back on track. /sigh

[Bishop]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

a: there's no divide between JP/NA/EU any more.

b: what's left - is racism.

Don't like that? Go cry in your LS. I'm sure they'll bolster your ego. Because you know what Sunshine...? I'm not victimised. I'm a well respected player who has earned that in my community. So what if people who've never stepped outside of their microcosm never understand anything new? Only harming themselves and the reputation of their nation. Because I'll party with anyone, Black, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, African, Australian.. I could care less. Colour/Race means nothing to me, only attitude and competence. Pity certain other 'races' don't see that as a nation...

Only good gamers vs bad gamers... EoS.

How wrong you are. Most people in this game are NOT racist. You may have gotten that notion with all the {English}{No Thanks!}, but it honestly isn't true. Like you said on your last line, it's only good gamers vs bad gamers. And many before you have set a sterotype that any non-japanese speaking person has a higher risk of being a bad player. No, they're not partying with you not because you're european, chinese, black, or blue. They're merely horrified by the lack of respect and manners some non-japanese people show. And as much as I hate it, it's true.

And when I say bad player, I don't mean in terms of skills or equipment. It is true that after so many years, the skill gap between japanese and non-japanese are very slim if not negligable. But the thing that still seperates japanese from non-japanese are manners and respect. Like I said in the OP, replacements, ditching the pt after a short while, etc, etc.

[Hamlet]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

I think the idea that JPs are better came about because they had a big head start on us on playing the game. The truth is, they WERE better. They knew how the game worked, they used food, they just did everything better.

That being said, we've now had the game for years. The odds of a player being bad are about equal I'd say, regardless of if they're JP or NA.

Generally speaking, Japanese people have a stronger work ethic, which may translate into more skillful playing, but I have run accross at least one JP who had no idea what he was doing.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

How wrong you are. Most people in this game are NOT racist. You may have gotten that notion with all the {English}{No Thanks!}, but it honestly isn't true. Like you said on your last line, it's only good gamers vs bad gamers. And many before you have set a sterotype that any non-japanese speaking person has a higher risk of being a bad player. No, they're not partying with you not because you're european, chinese, black, or blue. They're merely horrified by the lack of respect and manners some non-japanese people show. And as much as I hate it, it's true.

And when I say bad player, I don't mean in terms of skills or equipment. It is true that after so many years, the skill gap between japanese and non-japanese are very slim if not negligable. But the thing that still seperates japanese from non-japanese are manners and respect. Like I said in the OP, replacements, ditching the pt after a short while, etc, etc.

Manners and respect are there. Most of us don't go AFK, don't ding and ditch, don't do x, y, or z... and still get told the same.

I know my etiquette, and behave as I would hope others would treat me. Do I tire of being treated second rate - by people of a different skin colour? Yes.

When I've been "introduced", I've had nothing but praise. When people have actually been 'forced' to party with me out of respect for their friends, they've realised that 'omigodz! these dirty gaijin play like we do!!1!one!elevendy!'.

Microcosm.

It still exists.

You wish to say it doesn't. That's fine. That's your decision. It's also patronizing, but hey - each to their own.

I stand by my comments - for me, skin colour doesn't matter. Language doesn't matter.

Oh wait.. let me log on my Whm or Brd. Oooh.. I get invites from JP Onry search comment players. Log on my Thf.. {English} {Too Weak} wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Really now. *bites his thumb*

It doesn't exist when I have something they want. Go figure.

[Bishop]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

Manners and respect are there. Most of us don't go AFK, don't ding and ditch, don't do x, y, or z... and still get told the same.

I know my etiquette, and behave as I would hope others would treat me. Do I tire of being treated second rate - by people of a different skin colour? Yes.

Just becase YOU behave well, doesn't mean suddenly everyone in japan is going to sing kumbayah and hold hands with europeans. You make up only a miniscule portion of the non-japanese playerbase. You make it seem like just because you behave well, suddenly, the whole worlds view of europeans will change. Maybe most europeans don't go afk, I don't know, I don't party with many people from europe. It's safe to say though that at least from levels 1-50, you will see the traits I posted in my original post MANY MANY MANY times eruopean or not.

And you can deny it all you want and say that most people you know don't do stuff like that. But I will have to call the bullshit card on that one. I've leveled so so many jobs from 1-50, throughout the past 4 years, and it's been a problem all 4 years.

But you're right, people are getting better. And it's evident in less "JP ONRY" comments. Those comments still exist no doubt, but i see it much less now than a year ago.

You have to remember, Japanese people aren't all connected telepathically. Just because you left a good impression on one japanese player doesn't mean suddenly all "JP ORNY" comments will dissapear.

[Cometgreen]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

They're merely horrified by the lack of respect and manners some non-japanese people show. And as much as I hate it, it's true.

And thus, refusing to invite NA because of the lack of respect of some non-Japanese people is racism.

However, using "racism," beyond being technically incorrect (again, I think it's more about cultural differences, not an actual issue of race), carries the wrong connotations. I think it is understandable for some Japanese to be hesitant about inviting non-JP players. It's human nature to, eventually, create stereotypes and preferences. If I always hear that French players are snooty, and if I have also had bad experiences with French players, I will be less inclined to invite a French player over another player. It's not fair, but it's inevitable.

With that said, absolutely refusing to party with a player only because of where s/he lives is extreme and shows very poor character.

[Bishop]

Re: How come JP don't like to pt with me?

And thus, refusing to invite NA because of the lack of respect of some non-Japanese people is racism.

Check my OP for what I mean by respect. It's just proper party etiquette. Refusing to invite NA because of lack of etiquette might be a better term. Regardless whether it's etiquette or respect, they're not doing it because of skin color.

However, using "racism," beyond being technically incorrect (again, I think it's more about cultural differences, not an actual issue of race, carries the wrong connotations.

I don't think I could've said this better myself. My definition of racist is to discriminate based on race and skin color, which is something I know for a fact that most japanese don't do. Maybe spinn's was different.