claiming test... doesn't seem to change ?

[Jei]

nothing's changed so far from my tests... are they not active yet?

1. kitty Dia a sheep, claims it.
I cure 3. Mob turned to me.
claim remains the same


2. kitty dia the red marked fly then make a link. didn't touch the linked one.
I cure 3
Only the one that got hit by Dia turned to me. The linked remained on kitty.
claim remains the same


3. kitty engaged - claimed - disenganged - back to yellow.
I cure 3. mob turned to me.
claim remains the same.



4. kitty aggro a mob - sitting infront of a gob.
I cure. The mob turned to me.
claim remains the same

[Caspian]

Re: claiming test... doesn't seem to change ?

How long was she fighing when she disengaged? Let her build up a lot of hate before she disengages.

[Jei]

Re: claiming test... doesn't seem to change ?

only a few swings with a silence. ima try some more.

[Kittyneko]

Re: claiming test... doesn't seem to change ?

The conditions for claiming monsters has been changed in the following ways. Accordingly, players will no longer be attacked by monsters that they themselves are unable to attack.

Goodbye, PL.. or not?

[FortMan]

Re: claiming test... doesn't seem to change ?

I wonder about this case:

4. kitty aggro a mob - sitting infront of a gob.
I cure. The mob turned to me.
claim remains the same

Since cure won't let you claim a mob in the past, what will happen if you (1) just dia the goblin, or (2) big nuke the goblin instead?

[Protes]

Re: claiming test... doesn't seem to change ?

It might be disabled till ToAU goes live on Wednesday.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: claiming test... doesn't seem to change ?

Well as I see it described on the site, I think it is really aimed more for NM/HNM's. So if your camping Faf, you get claim, after a while it becomes unclaimed and someone is spamming, oh let's say.....STUN, you'll have enough enmity built up so that even if Faf becomes unclaimed the other ally will not be able to claim it.

[Caspian]

Re: claiming test... doesn't seem to change ?

Other updates are already in effect, this should be too.
Also try getting her way low on health, then she aggors the gob, and then you cure V her for massive hate, then she attacks to see if she can get claim.

[Jei]

Re: claiming test... doesn't seem to change ?

from what I remember case 4 wasn't that way before.
someone aggro sea horror (I get this really often because im on ferry all day) and run around. I can safely cure them without getting aggro from the horror.

[FortMan]

Re: claiming test... doesn't seem to change ?

from what I remember case 4 wasn't that way before.
someone aggro sea horror (I get this really often because im on ferry all day) and run around. I can safely cure them without getting aggro from the horror.

Ah, but running around don't generate hate while resting seems to generate some hate (That's why resting mages sometime got whacked by pulled mobs).

[Tirrock]

Re: claiming test... doesn't seem to change ?

The claim system worked exactly how I thought it would. I even got to experience it earlier today when I was playing around boyahda.

A BLM was soloing a robber crab and accidentally hit sleepga II and got both it and a rabbit. I had no monsters at me on the time, saw her hit the rabbit too on accident, and flashed the slept rabbit. The rabbit didn't get claimed by me, it remained unclaimed.

So my flash produced less hate than her sleepga II. Remember those pictures on the update page with the blue hume, the red elvaan, and the mandragora? In this case, it would be "Type #1", where person A (blue hume - mithra BLM) had more hate than person B (red elvaan - me), so I wasn't able to claim it.

The rabbit woke up, started pounding the BLM, so I tossed her a cure III and the rabbit went for me. A RDM walked in and asked if we needed any help. Since I was skilling up shield on my WHM (was getting it close to the cap for my 45 PLD) and I wasn't on my SMN...I agreed. The RDM casted sleep II on the rabbit and it didn't claim for her either. She then casted slow on it and it claimed for her.

In that case, going back to those update pictures... It would be "Type 2". Where person B (red elvaan - RDM) had more hate than the person that already had hate on the unclaimed monster (blue hume - me), so they were able to claim it.

The way I read the claiming changes was that it was just to prevent people from being able to wake up slept unclaimed monsters (usually links that have been sleepgaed) and leave the people that slept them with no way to resleep them at all. With the old system, you could have a slept target and somebody would smack it with a boomerang, and then you couldn't resleep it when it woke up. That's what I got out of it anyway.

[Karinya]

Re: claiming test... doesn't seem to change ?

The old problem that the change was meant to fix:

I (Player A) am fighting Lizard. Mandy comes along and adds (or is hit by an AoE I used). I sleep Mandy. This briefly gives me claim on Mandy, but since I am still engaged on Lizard, I lose claim on Mandy rather quickly. This is the situation in the first illustration, i.e., before Player B does anything. (Lizard is not shown in the picture, but it must exist otherwise I would be fighting Mandy and it would be red.)

Player B shoots Mandy, but doesn't do much damage. Mandy becomes claimed by player B, but is still attacking me because I have more hate (from sleep). I can't kill Mandy or resleep it because it is claimed by other player -> Mandy kills me. MPK. (There's no illustration for this because it doesn't happen any more.)

The insidious thing about this form of MPK is that it could be done by accident - if Mandy is a mob that doesn't normally aggro, player B won't necessarily assume that its presence near me means anything special, it could have just wandered by. And it's unclaimed, right? If player B shoots and runs without realizing that he didn't get hate, he can MPK me without even knowing what is going on. Since it can be done by accident, it is also plausibly deniable in a lot of situations.


New behavior (according to the patch notes):

Same events happen, but now Mandy does *not* become claimed by player B. (illustrated case 1) Since I still have more hate, I can reclaim it by doing anything. Resleeping it won't *maintain* a claim as long as I am still fighting Lizard though, so if they really want to MPK me, they can just wake it up again - even aside from the possibility that they were pulling with Venom Bolts or a DoT spell. So it's not a 100% fix.

If the player B does enough (damage, provokes, whatever) to it to overcome my hate, *then* Mandy becomes claimed by him and goes and attacks him. (illustrated case 2)


Your tests don't really adress this because you were deliberately getting more hate than Kitty. You need to get LESS hate than the original person to see the behavior; also, it needs to be from an action that affects the mob directly. You still can't claim a mob without doing something that directly affects it.

Try casting sleepga yourself, and then having Kitty hit one of the yellow sleeping mobs for small damage. You should see that Kitty will NOT get claim on it immediately the way she would have previously.

I think SE's examples would have been clearer if they had also shown player A's primary target (i.e. something OTHER than the mandragora in the picture). If he's actually attacking that mandy, it wouldn't be yellow in the first place and the patch change wouldn't apply.

[neighbortaru]

Re: claiming test... doesn't seem to change ?

as Task and I said yesterday, no PL nerf

[Taskmage]

Re: claiming test... doesn't seem to change ?

• Get a friend to cast a nice high hate spell like Sleepga on two mobs.
• Dia the unclaimed mob. You should not get claim.
• Cast a high hate spell on the mob you just Dia'd, like your own Sleep II. You should get claim.

[tazirai]

Re: claiming test... doesn't seem to change ?

Nice Test guys lookin gforward to more data.