Explain to me how Hume is not statistically the worst race.

[Deedlit]

I was obviously arguing about pure stats, taking into account the same skill level between the hume and the galka paladin, it's quite obvious that a good galka paladin is better than an average hume paladin, but when a good galka paladin is compared with a good hume paladin, taking in account the same skill level (and this mean they both can use their toold to the utmost) the hume paladin comes up on top, because he has more tools to work with.

Maybe on the first pull... However, if you are chaining, your max mp doesn't make much of a different - it's your mp regen that matters. In that case, as long as a galka PLD can regen to full in-between pulls, he is essentially in the same position as a hume PLD, who would have to stand up and fight before his mp is fully refreshed.

I play a SMN, as a mithra, and I see the same thing when comparing myself to a taru. Yes, they have more mp if they are a SMN (though I have more than one if they are any other mage class) - however, when I am doing exp chains of 5, I never drop below around 260/727 mp - that is with me doing my job AND being secondary healer. The taru is usually left with more than 400 mp at the end - so, how does having that extra mp give you more tools? I'd much rather keep my 600ish hp than get the extra mp - that taru sitting at a bit more than 300hp can be killed almost instantly in exchange for mp that isn't even fully utilized.

[Xien]

Originally posted by Deedlit


Maybe on the first pull... However, if you are chaining, your max mp doesn't make much of a different - it's your mp regen that matters. In that case, as long as a galka PLD can regen to full in-between pulls, he is essentially in the same position as a hume PLD, who would have to stand up and fight before his mp is fully refreshed.

I play a SMN, as a mithra, and I see the same thing when comparing myself to a taru. Yes, they have more mp if they are a SMN (though I have more than one if they are any other mage class) - however, when I am doing exp chains of 5, I never drop below around 260/727 mp - that is with me doing my job AND being secondary healer. The taru is usually left with more than 400 mp at the end - so, how does having that extra mp give you more tools? I'd much rather keep my 600ish hp than get the extra mp - that taru sitting at a bit more than 300hp can be killed almost instantly in exchange for mp that isn't even fully utilized.

Actually, if you're chaining, max MP does make a difference when chaining. You are correct when you say MP regen > Max MP. But for example:

Max MP: 240 vs Max MP: 180

It takes maybe 60 MP to hold hate (highly unlikely as Cure III is already 50ish MP but just for example) .

After the first monster:
180 vs 120
After second (let's assume no refresh forsimplicity)
120 vs 60
After the third... I think you get the point.

Max MP doesn't matter if you don't hit rock bottom before resting.

I'm not saying this makes Hume PLDs better than Galka PLDs. There's simply too much to take into account, (ie. Higher Vit of Galka's, refresh, time it takes to pull, how hard the monster hits, AOEs because of WS spam, etc.) but this was just on the topic of Max MP.

Edit: Of course, assuming no sitting. Something that happens often at higher lvls as Vorpal Blade is quite good and PLDs are usually need tohave TP to start lvl 3 Renkeis.

[Kamakazik]

Alright...here's my opinions:

1) Stop being a stat whore
2) Stats only go so far...you can be a Tarutaru BLM level 75...all buffed out...and still have less "skill" (as some people say) than a Hume BLM level 75...
3) I personally...and I hope half of all other players...don't give a shit about stats...just play the game and if you don't think race is good for your job...make a new character. OH WAIT: Humes don't have to...

[Deedlit]

Ahh - sorry, I was taking into account that the PLD rests after battle, so ok, let's assume for SC purposes, he remains standing. Most PTs at these levels where you can do Vorpal blade (what level is that anyway) usually have a RDM or BRD for refresh, no?

Eh, I can't see why a PLD wouldn't sit after a battle, unless his tp is already full - but even then, isn't the mp more important than being able to execute the SC immediately?

[Tukka]

In response to what was said earlier in the thread about Mithra's low MND not being a disadvantage, it is disadvantage if you are doing any white magic debuffing or nuking. As a RDM, I do a lot of white magic debuffing.

Then again, MND is one of the easiest (least expensive) stats to boost with equipment, so in that regard Mithra is a very well balanced class. I'm a little surprised I don't see more Mithra mages and summoners. I've seen a lot of Elvaan Black Mages, which is pretty far from being an optimum combo with their low MP and INT, while I can't ever remember seeing a Mithra Black Mage, which in most respects would be at least as good as a Hume BLM.

I guess it has to do with "character". BLMs are dark, imposing and cool... Elvaan are dark, imposing and cool. Mithra are cute, sexy and feminine... qualities which I guess don't scream "I'm a badass killing machine".

[Loial]

Actually, if you're chaining, max MP does make a difference when chaining

In between pulls you still get to sit and med up. As I said earlier, a Hume PLD will need to expend more MP than a Galka to keep the hate. They will sustain more damage. More damage = more heals to bring up HP + more heals to keep the hate.

Just to point something out...

After the first and second kill of the chain... the puller goes out just to scout. He doesn't say "oh, I see a beetle! Let me pull it now!" Good pullers know the time left for an exp chain. You stretch out the time between the first two parts of the chain so you are rested to full MP. So there goes your claim that the Galka PLD is out of MP already.

Then you skillchain to kill the 3rd and it is a race to the finish to kill the next 2.

A lot of people don't give Galka the credit they deserve. We force ourselves to learn exactly how much hate we have and when to use our abilities. Don't play number games when it really comes down to player skill

[Xien]

Originally posted by Loial


In between pulls you still get to sit and med up. As I said earlier, a Hume PLD will need to expend more MP than a Galka to keep the hate. They will sustain more damage. More damage = more heals to bring up HP + more heals to keep the hate.

Just to point something out...

After the first and second kill of the chain... the puller goes out just to scout. He doesn't say "oh, I see a beetle! Let me pull it now!" Good pullers know the time left for an exp chain. You stretch out the time between the first two parts of the chain so you are rested to full MP. So there goes your claim that the Galka PLD is out of MP already.

Then you skillchain to kill the 3rd and it is a race to the finish to kill the next 2.

A lot of people don't give Galka the credit they deserve. We force ourselves to learn exactly how much hate we have and when to use our abilities. Don't play number games when it really comes down to player skill

As I SAID in my post, there are other factors that need to be taken into account. Obviously (and I even pointed it out), there's a lot to be taken into account when comparing Hume and Galka PLDs.

If you think Max MP doesn't mean anything, try getting full AF and not equipping any +MP items as a Galka. Look at your MP and ask yourself if you think that's really enough. This is why most Galka use electrums and switch out to Vit rings when their MP gets below the +40 MP amount. If I remember correctly, a 60 Galka PLD had about 120-130 MP at 60 without electrum. In battle, he had to use at least two Cure IIIs at 50sih MP each, (not counting flash). Even though refresh nets you a free 150 MP, that's over a 2.5 minute period. Max MP does matter. If it didn't, no Galka PLD would use RSE. It's a trade-off for having incredibly high VIT and HP.

I think it's a fair trade.

[SuperHeroSeth]

why dont we let pvps decide how bad humes are... like say if a lvl 30 war hume battles a lvl 30 war elvaan... ect.

[Abriael]

Originally posted by Loial

In between pulls you still get to sit and med up. As I said earlier, a Hume PLD will need to expend more MP than a Galka to keep the hate. They will sustain more damage. More damage = more heals to bring up HP + more heals to keep the hate.

Just to point something out...

And you pointed it quite wrong.
The damage difference is not even nearly enough to go over the healing difference between a galka and an hume paladin. An hume will heal MORE hp than the damage he takes over a galka.
So don't come tell us how more heals are needed from mages, because if the PLD is good and knows how to heal between hits the whm won't need to heal anything more than he would with a galka. The paladin will heal himself enough, but causing more hate, thus letting attackers do more damage without risks and the group will kill faster.
As i told before i can't be more glad when the groups competing with mine for a camp have a galka tank, their damagers have to hold off making their pulls so slow it's almost like owning the camp alone.

BTW: if you need to stretch the time between pulls to the limits of the chain for wait for your galka to get his mana back you're exping slower you know?
As i said you can have 20000 HP and 300 Vit, they will be of no help when the mob is beating your mages.

[Doppelganger]

lets just say this, every race/job has its own STRENGTHS, it depends on if you are skilled enough to use these strengths that actually matter. mithra's are agile, tarus are good in mp and int, galka have a lot of hp and vit, elves have highest str, while humes are well balanced. being well balanced, a single hume character can pull off any job equally well, leading to the ability to make job combinations not suited to lopsided races. if you wanted to go melee/mage (not very practical anyways, but this is an example), you would get the STRENGTHS of BOTH JOBS, not just melee (mithra, galka, elf) or mage (taru).it may be true that these strengths may be watered down compaired to another race, but it will be a well balanced character. there are no weaknessed in any specific chracter, only weakesses in PTs (like all war group or all whm group). if you can use your character's STRENGTHS well, your character will be good, no matter how much better equiped or higher stats a newbie's character can be.


enough said... you may try as hard as you want to disprove this, but in the end it is true no matter how you look at it.