What is a good "TANK" to you?

[Tokiwong]

That is a fact of life regardless... most other melee that are not tank are damagedealers, you will be fighting an uphill battle no matter what, Defender just adds to your survivalbility, because that is greatest skill outside of maintaining the hate.

[bakavic]

tanking

Being a tank means knowing that you are like a wall seperating the hungry wild animals from the tasty slab of meat. Lately I been seeing more and more "tanks" obsessed with trying to do the most damage. It is not the tanks job to do "l337" damage or "wtfpwn" the mobs. there are jobs meant for heavy damage dealing, and it is not warriors and paladins.

As a tank, it is your job to protect the mages and more vunerable members of the party. Yesterday, there was the most moronic warrior tank I have ever seen. This was in Qufim. I was main tank as my paladin, and he was secondary/backup tank. Even though the party clearly established I was the main tank (lvl 28 paladin in full chain and +1 equipment and boiled crab vs lvl 28 warrior in beetle armor and not eatting any food), he would try to outagro me. I provoke, he follows up with a provoke. On this one pull, where we had 2 pugils coming, we were to both tank 1; not only did he not even try to tank, he disengaged to chase after the monkeys that wandered by! The party barely survived, and invincible and benidiction gone.

Needless to say, that is not how a tank should act; and all it does is give other tanks, the real tanks, the good ones, a bad name.

[Paiku]

Just for the record... people on the game remember you if you play the role of tank well. You get added to friend lists mega-fast, mentioned to other players... and thus your demand in parties increases considerably. I rather enjoy not having to struggle to find a good leveling party, when I'm in the leveling mood like I was today.

Also is a good ego booster, when all five other members tell you that you're the best tank they've ever seen when you are able to pull and hold aggression so well that all the other party members get hit a handful of times in over 6 hours of battling. Definitely inflates my huge ego, anyways.

Defense, defense, defense people. You can't believe how much it helps when your defense is high enough that you can take IT mobs at level 30 that rake in 200 XP, and your healer can just throw Cure over and over with the occasional Cure II to keep hate at a minimum. It's amazing how quickly things go when the whole party doesn't have to take rest periods every other kill.

Edit: In fact, I think my leveling party had only one actual rest period, and that was because the one guy had to go pick up a pizza.

[Susano]

This thread has helped me become a better tank, I used to hold off on provoke till the mob strayed, now that I'm not, I find it increasingly easy to keep the mob on me at all times.

One issue I am having is people not wanting a singular tank. Seems everytime someone in a pt is a war or a war sub, they provoke all the time.....now, I'm not saying I am the "best" tank and I will be the first to tell a war with better equipment to be the main tank with defender, but this isn't the case most times. I feel bad telling people repeatedly to stop trying to get the mob on them so badly all the time. Just yesterday I was competing for agro with a provoking rdm, mnk, and berserk using war.....

Maybe I should start being more assertive and illustrate to them that the mob should be hitting me.

[Meijin]

I like a group where a few people provoke... I think its dumb when one person just tells everyone not to provoke especially if there is other warriprs there.

have had alot of success in parties with 3 players using provoke...actually some of the best parties ever i have been in had like 3 people all provoking...shows a great sense of teamwork between the provokers..

i hate that one tank who thinks he is some godly creation and only he should provoke and tells other wars not to provoke...i have found when a couple people play "tag" the party goes alot smoother then one man just doing all the tanking...ok maybe if you have one white mage and he is like a elvaan with barely any mp then one tanker may be a great thing as he can focus his lowly mp on one man...but you still gonna have to worry about area effects like bomb toss the monster still gonna attack the mages at some point...,just dont like that way of things.

the other day was in a group with three warriors and it was the sweetest thing ever....we provoked took some hits and then when about in yellow another one provoked and gave time for the white mage to heal that guy...and like went in a circle...was extremely successful in this method.

imo the more provokes the better....id say the white mages got hit maybe once every 20 battles or soemthing if that.

some people are like nazis about the one man provoke...i hate when someone tells me not to provoke...i am a warrior..it is my duty to provoke...like telling a white mage not to cure.

[Paiku]

Sorry, but when you warriors, dragoons, and dark knights take two 30 damage hits from a mandragora in the jungles in the Elshimo Highlands while a Paladin like myself will take two 15 damage hits instead, I think I'll keep the aggro on me as much as possible, alright?

Your "duty" is to contribute to the party in the best way possible, and provoking and thus forcing the white mage to have to use more MP to heal you is detrimental. If there's someone in the party with way higher defense than you, it's logical for him to suck as much aggression as possible. Sorry if it hurts your Klingon warrior spirit Worf, but play a Paladin if provoking is that important to you.

Paladins have high charisma and vitality for a reason. Charisma affects the strength of provoke. Vitality affects damage taken. All the more reason for Paladins to be the damage sponges.

Just one question before I sleep... do you use a two-handed-weapon with your warrior?

[Meijin]

yes yes i know paladin are the best tanks...your just lucky there is a sub so paladin can use the warriors skills or he would be useless without provoke,etc

if the paladin had a considerable amount more defense/hp then me and had the war subjob,etc,etc then ok i can understand allowing the paladin to take over as the sole tank..

but i am mainly just talking about lower level here...when war and pal are on more of a equal level also mainly talking about a few wars in group without pal...havent really had alot of experience with paladins in a group.

as for weapon..currently using the royal spearman's spear & plantreaper scythe.

[CloudFFVII]

Being a WHM I am sure that i can add something to this discussion, at least from my point of View. Having not played as a thf I am really not to sure how bad the new rules are affecting them in parties, but I do agree with you that with the latest update and sneak attack having to be done from the back turning would be a very good point.

The biggest problem I see with most tanks is that they let the monsters get to close to the mages. WAR need only really worry about spending their Gil on two things, Armor and Weapons, WHM on the other hand have to worry about that as well as spells. And let us be honest a WHM gil farming is not the easiest task.

As far as a WHM is concerned a good tank would consist of someone who is willing to sacrafice, A tank that is not afraid to die is one of the most impotant things a WHM can ask for, it is a terrible position to be in when the WHM is left to fight a IT creature and all the tanks have split.

A tank who knows Renkei and knows how to set voke is also someone who can be very useful, there is nothing worse then casting a spell and both or all 3 tanks voke at the same time. It is like a waste of MP for a party with Dual WHM.

[Paiku]

But that's just it Meijin... they can sub warrior and thus enhance provoke for a reason.

In the case of no Paladin in a group and there being multiple warriors, then yeah... you're certainly correct in spreading the wealth so to speak. It comes down to what the party needs, and in the earlier levels, one person cannot efficiently hold all aggro without putting them dangerously close to dying.

[Meijin]

In the case of no Paladin in a group and there being multiple warriors, then yeah... you're certainly correct in spreading the wealth so to speak. It comes down to what the party needs, and in the earlier levels, one person cannot efficiently hold all aggro without putting them dangerously close to dying.

yeah that is what i was talking about...i completely agree with you about paladins and higher levels and stuff...i mostly just party in valkrum dunes with other warriors so that is what im used to...i had one experience with a war/pal


he joins up....i have a full set of lizard armour and he has a full set of bone armour..i am level 17 and he is level 16...he is galka and i am elvaan.

so after we start battling he starts complaining that i am provoking...and to let him take all the damage and just attack and that i was hurting the party...i had 10 more defense then him and the monster was not staying on him..we were fighting beach pugils and the monster was all over the place so i was trying to trade provoke with him which would of worked well...but he wanted noone else to provoke.

he kept complaining about this even though when i provoked and he provoked we had success...so i left the party saying i will have noone tell me not to do my job...i go seeking at selbina ent..not even 10 min later here they come zoning from the beach pugil with mr. godly tank running.

i just cant see how he would be the only tank considering i was higher level...i had better armour then him and a higher defense..he has a bit more hp and that was all...he claimed i was taking a hell of alot more damage then him and hurting the party.

i looked at logs and he was taking about 40 damage points a hit and i was taking about 32 damage points...i said i would backup tank but he wasnt happy with that...wanted to be the sole tank.

also the dude had no cure and stuff to keep hate on him cuz he had pal subbed and is a galka..so he had barely any mana or anything.

[Tokiwong]

Paladin sub sucks... nuff-said... end of story ^^

At lower-levels yes... pin-pong works but after about 25 or so... the Paladin starts to come into his own... Paladin/Warrior owns at soaking damage... and the fact that you can cure yourself is vital to keeping you alive and keeping the hate right where you are. It isn't easy at times... but if you do your damndest... you will rock ^^

[FeralisCallidus]

Amazingly, I was surprised to see a good job combination for absorbing damage(other than Pld/war!!):

War/Mnk.


Because he was lvl 30, he inherited the Mnk's level 15 ability of 'Dodge', which raised his evasion considerably. Dodge+Defender is a mean combination, especially when the tank (contrary to my suggestions, used a parrying knife and lantern shield). I immediatly assumed the knife wouldn't generate him enough hate.~ Turns out Boost is a mob's worst friend. Whenever he used boost, the mob immediatly turned to him (even though it was only for a moment, but it is obvious that boost had a hate inducing effect). Provoke, Boost, Boost, Provoke, Boost, Boost, Provoke kept the mob on him pretty well. And Dodge + Defender kept the damage from really getting to monstrous.

[Lordender]

Yep if your the kinda player that loves the tank genre then war is great but at level 30 you must switch to paladin and sub war, every party i've been in since level 40 always looks for a paladin first, i saw a level 40 war seeking and the party leader says no war, paladin he's last resort if no paladin.

[raexn]

I just want to start off by saying I appreciate all the Good information everyones provided. I never knew that Provokes stacked like that myself. I've had a couple groups where the WHM would use bene, and I could never pull the mob off, but now I think i'll have a handle on that situation.

I was curious about this since i wanted to go with Samurai for my advanced job. And i like the tanking myself.

Do many pt's at higher lvls ever look for sam/war for pt addons beside the fact that they have the great SC possibilities?

Any input would be greatly appreciate!

[Kagi]

I don't know, but at level 50-54 the sams I pted with were just tp machines and basically damage dealers. They hardly tanked at all unless I was dead on the floor and the mob was running to the mages.

50+ is not exactly end-game though.. so I'm not sure.

If you like tanking... *points to all the shiny paladins* Although I think Midgardsormr is getting overrun with them... rar. I secretly hope some of them quit the job so we have less competition >< j/k

Also one more thing to add on to the info above, for pld tanks...

Learn to adapt to the group you're fighting with. If there's a rdm/brd, blow your mp. If there isn't but you're not chaining quickly, ration it out a bit. If there isn't -and- they're chaining quickly, hoard it as far as you can without endangering the safety of the party. ^^ (this is where juice comes in handy...)