What is a good "TANK" to you?

[Tokiwong]

Originally posted by Amaterasu


Fish Mirthakabobs i think give +26.7% defense.

Boiled crab is good too, 21.6% defense i think.

As a pally you can also use melon juice, so that you dont have to sit to regen mana.

Meant will, and not will not, and thanks I priced them... pretty pricey have to wait for my cash flowage to go up again before I get some, but for now I guzzle down Meath Mithkabobs like nobodies business, if you are a tank you better be eating!

I tray healing myself as well, and all I can say is Silence sucks!

[simpletruth]

Well Ama, since you're talking as a WAR, here's some pointers till you get to be a Paladin.

There are several ways to keep the hate on a tank.

1. Make sure you as the tank is the highest lvl in the group. A low lvl tank can not provoke off from a higher lvl player...unless....read below

2. Don't cast Defender too quickly in the battle. Try get your TP to 100% at least so you can do a elemental TP attack that the mob is weak against. Weapon management is important so you can perform the right skill. Elemental damage does a lot of hate if the mob is weak to it.

3. Charisma helps with successful Provoke. The higher your Charisma, the easier it is to provoke. This is where the exception to the rule of lvl being a factor to provoke doesn't count. Paladins have insane amount of Charisma...next to BST

4. Thief is your best hate maker for the tank. The thief just needs to cast Trick with whatever weapon skill behind the tank and the mob will stick to the tank like glue....but devine seal curaga still gets the WHM aggroed, but not as long though. Before the Thief nerfing, a thief could do sneak-trick and weapon skill at the side of the mob and keep the hate on the tank. But Square changed that >,,< So only Trick and Weapon skill from behind the tank.

5. Really be good at Stun skills. Know when to use it so the WHMs don't have to save everyone from a AOE attack and get aggroed.

6. Magic burst will never cause hate to the BLM, so learn to renkei with the BLMs.

Hmmmm I think there's more but can't remember more....

[Tokiwong]

Thank you for the tips and they will be used!

[Hisdon]

Originally posted by Satyricon
Voking every 30 seconds is a waste IMO. You should only be voking at the beggining of the match and if the mob heads towards the mages. Also situations like another tank-type/hybrid receives aggro and cant handle it (ie. using Souleater as a DRK).

sorrry man, but as stated here, that's incorect, hate stacks with provoke, so NOT using it every 30 secounds is a waste. If you let it go after the mages, then provoke, chances are, you will NOT always have enough hate to get em off

here's something you should try, get 7 provokes off and use a weapon skill that mobs hate (in my example, I used Shield Break, mobs hate this skill A LOT) WHM benedicts, never even moved

Crawler Nest today, as a DRK I'll even save my WHM, I pulled two flies on accident, we couldn't sleep the add, so we killed the first one asap, add killed the BRD, WHM benedicted, mob goes after him, I run up to the mob, two hour, souleater, last resort, + provoke, hate is mine, I die but the mage and the rest of the pt lived

I feel really good whenever I get a mob on me after benediction, if I'm tryin to

[Seance]

I'm glad you brought up this topic because many tanks do need to take a look at this and learn from it. =)

The "What is a good Whm to you" thread also gave me a lot of pointers on how to be a better whm, although I thought I had the job down pretty good. And I'm sure this will be a wake up call for many tanks in the same way. hopefully. :spin:

[Tokiwong]

Just don't stop provoking, don't be scared... have faith and trust, and keeping mashing that macro... and yes it better be a macro

[Foamingpanda]

The most important thing about any tank is how good of a leader they are. It's not very hard for a paladin to keep aggro. Mash provoke, throw a heal inbetween a combat round, and an occasional WS makes it very easy for any competant tank to keep aggro.

What sets good tanks from bad tanks is their ability to lead, and their skill at pulling mobs at a quick rate. There is nothing worse to be in a group with 6 quiet people who can't decide what to hunt, when to pull, or where to go. A tank who can not grab their group by the wrist, and lead them by pulling well, telling them where to go really should play a more subservant class. Leadership is something that is lacked in so many groups. NA pick up groups tend to be extremely unorganized, uneffiecent, and sloppy.

[Paiku]

What is a good tank?

A good tank is the player who dies before the WHM or any other party member in a typical combat scenario, typical being a monster you've pulled, and you're fighting only that monster (additional monsters jumping in unexpectedly for instance, is not what I consider a typical combat scenario). If another party member dies before you do, especially the healer, then you have failed in your responsibility to the party. It is your job as a tank, to keep the damage on you as much as possible, by ANY MEANS POSSIBLE.

If it's not a goblin, I use shield bash, jam provoke rapidly as it approaches the 30 second mark, weapon skills, cure... whatever it takes to hold the aggression.

In the case of goblins... TP is reserved for flat blade alongside shield bash due to the stun effects for stopping bomb toss as often as possible. Your party members, especially the WHM, will love you for that.

I've seen three level 25+ Paladins in sub-level 20 armor out at Khazam in the last few days. Walking around there in scale mail is insulting; news flash: you're worthless. Go get some chainmail armor, because a Dragoon, Warrior, or Dark Knight can fill that slot better if you don't have better defense, because you sure as hell can't match their offensive power.

[LegionaireJoe]

Originally posted by Paiku
What is a good tank?

...I've seen three level 25+ Paladins in sub-level 20 armor out at Khazam in the last few days. Walking around there in scale mail is insulting; news flash: you're worthless...

Are you sure it was the lv 10 Scale Armor, and not the lv 27 Brass Scale Mail? They look exactly the same, and I almost made the mistake of not inviting a PLD into our party because its so easy to assume that its the lv 10 stuff due to how they look exactly the same. Upon sending him a /tell asking permission to check his gear, that cleared up our fears and doubts within the party very quickly. He ended up being a pretty good PLD (though he liked to switch to Great Sword every now and then when we told him to stick with Sword/Shield)...

[Genki]

Wow! This thread has been so helpful, i'm comming out of my hole and contribute.

For Pld: please make sure you have a 2nd weapon lvled decently seeing how as of late, you may not Always be the main tank.

Reasons being:
- War at low~mid lvl with defender and 1h weapon+shield > Pld (mostly because Sentinel has such short effects per cooldown)
- When you're lucky enough to have a rich Ninja blink tanking so you can have fun using 2ndary weapon + Beserk.

Also: Please don't be stingy with Invincible. I've been regretting the times i haven't used it to save my own tooshie.

On Provoke:
- I've been suggested, by a rank 10 jp in my group once, to Provoke every 30 sec. And now later, i've been seeing why: Provoke's hate seems to wear off completely after the 30sec and hate almost always switches off to a dmg dealer when no seriously hate generating skills are used.

Lastly: I like to have cure macros for all PT members seeing how Cure spam > Provoke at hate control.

Hope this helps!~ (*'-')

*slides back down into hole with a warm blanky*

[Spekky]

gotta tag this thread for a NOOB RL friend of mine that's finally starting to shed some of those "beginner warrior" bad habits. You know, stuff like foolishly easy/hard pulls (or refusing to even learn what pulling is). . . insanely difficult pulls when WHM has no mana. . . never eating, never using provoke, etc.).

Either way, thank you all for these informative tips. . . as was mentioned earlier on in this thread: several threads about what being a good WHM (or BLM in my case... though I suck at BLM, to be honest) have really helped a lot of people with those party roles. . . and, as a taru that's died way too many times as the result of many stupid tanks, it is FANTASTIC to see a fairly compreshensive thread like this about intelligent ways of playing the job class while in a pt.

Spek

[Tokiwong]

Ujio's Rules of Tanking

Some Repeats, Not trying to steal just Compile
[list=1][*]Level your Sub... don't ask why all excuses you will give are just not acceptable.[*]Accept the fact that some subs are much more desireable for PT tanking, a must is a Warrior as Main or sub, you will be virtually useless without Provoke.[*]Level your sub, just had to say it again in case you missed it.[*]Eat food, Meat Mithkabobs or Fish Mithkabobs are your friend, if you are in a Leveling PT you should be eating.[*]Provoke every thirty seconds, no excuses.[*]Provoke every thirty seconds, you are in a battle against Hate, you must win that war.[*]Do have the latest equipment you can have, this is a must.[*]Level your sub.[*]Be constructive, and let the mages know they are using too much magic if you can't maintain hate, Provoke can only do so much.[*]Provoke. [*]Do be prepared to die, and do not fear. In the end you can't tank alone, you will have to depend on the team to get the job done. But if you do your part correctly, then it will make the party that much better.[*]Level your sub, and provoke.[/list=1]

I hope that helps someone.

[Paiku]

Originally posted by LegionaireJoe

Are you sure it was the lv 10 Scale Armor, and not the lv 27 Brass Scale Mail? They look exactly the same, and I almost made the mistake of not inviting a PLD into our party because its so easy to assume that its the lv 10 stuff due to how they look exactly the same. Upon sending him a /tell asking permission to check his gear, that cleared up our fears and doubts within the party very quickly. He ended up being a pretty good PLD (though he liked to switch to Great Sword every now and then when we told him to stick with Sword/Shield)...

Hmm... good thing you pointed this out. Brass could have been a possibility, making their armor better than what I was wearing if that were the case. At any rate...

Open mouth, insert foot. But I stand firmly behind the rest of my comments.

[Amaterasu]

brass armor has the same rating as chain, and its much uglier.

however it costs ALOT less.

[gizamaluke]

amaterasu...i'm pretty surprised that you can hold the hate that easily by using defender. when your attack is low, others are gaining much more hate than you. using provoke usually isn't enough for me to keep it the entire time like you say. i would definitely only use defender if i had another voker or 2..or you are gonna have some pretty pissed off party members. especially the damn black mages casting their new high level spells then getting mad when they get hit once at least in all of my experience.