Valve to release next gen PC to compete with consoles.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Gabe Newell: Living Room PCs Will Compete With Next-Gen Consoles

I think I just heard the sound of MS and Sony's thunder being stolen.

[Raydeus]

Re: Valve to release next gen PC to compete with consoles.

Ironically (as I've said before) if they had allowed Ken Kutaragi to develop his plan for the PS3 things would've been the other way around. And I'm still curious about how Cloud Gaming will factor into all of this. Sony already bought Gaikai, and other cloud gaming services are starting to gain popularity. And considering only latency and spectrum issues stand in the way of Cloud gaming...

But yeah, either way any impact the new consoles could've had has already been halved at least. And with the underwhelming launch of the Wii U I'm inclined to believe this is the last "true console" generation we'll ever see.

[Armando]

Re: Valve to release next gen PC to compete with consoles.

Steam for Linux makes a lot of sense now.

And with the underwhelming launch of the Wii U I'm inclined to believe this is the last "true console" generation we'll ever see.

Doesn't the Wii U have like the biggest launch lineup for a Nintendo console in forever? I'm just thinking out loud here but it seems to me everyone always forgets all console launches are always underwhelming unless you're totally pumped to just own the thing, launch games and features be damned.

[Etra]

Re: Valve to release next gen PC to compete with consoles.

And with the underwhelming launch of the Wii U I'm inclined to believe this is the last "true console" generation we'll ever see.

Or it's because the Wii U is just fucking underwhelming.

[Raydeus]

Re: Valve to release next gen PC to compete with consoles.

Yeah, underwhelming console is underwhelming. XD

Steam for Linux makes a lot of sense now.Doesn't the Wii U have like the biggest launch lineup for a Nintendo console in forever? I'm just thinking out loud here but it seems to me everyone always forgets all console launches are always underwhelming unless you're totally pumped to just own the thing, launch games and features be damned.

Not like this. If anything it says a lot when the strongest lineup ever by Nintendo gets as many "meh"s as "yay"s.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Valve to release next gen PC to compete with consoles.

Yeah, not seeing how this launch was "underwhelming" given its sold to expectation with an respectable attach rate. As always, its the months and first couple of years that follow that really determine the course of a console. People seem to act like launches are only the end-all be-all of a console where Nintendo is concerned. Sony and MS can stumble out the gate and get a pass no matter what, it seems.

Sony waited three years to get their shit together, so that's why PS3 never caught up to Wii or 360 worldwide. Now Vita is seriously suffering for the same deluded sense of pride Sony opts to maintain. They think they're fucking Apple and people just gobble up anything right out of the palm of their hand.

I saw enough incentive to get a Wii U at lauch, but I'm waiting pretty much because there was enough elsewhere in the holiday season to keep me satisfied. Aside from February, the next couple of quarters seem a bit dry. Picking up a Wii U with Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate around then just seems like a good time for it. By then the content should be more steady and E3 will be around the corner for the big announcements.

I'm actually rather interested in seeing how the Miiverse thing evolves, so far its reception has been quite positive and how people troll the forums for "shovelware" title has been rather amusing. Ubi Soft probably didn't want Rabbids Land to become a forum for Willem Dafoe fan art, but that's what its become.

Willem Dafoe invades Rabbids Land � Analog Addiction

----------------

At any rate, I'm interested to see where Valve is going with this. It does indeed seem expanding to Linux support and the implementation of Big Picture were just two steps intended to bring them closer to this PC they had been rumored to be working on. And the people that have used it seem rather taken with Big Picture's interface.

[Raydeus]

Re: Valve to release next gen PC to compete with consoles.

I'm not talking about sales figures here (although I should've specified in my post) but simply about the console itself. I know you will defend it to the end of time because you are a huge fan. But most people who would normally be excited about this console just aren't. The console is subpar, and will only try to repeat the same act one-trick as the Wii. But I think the future of gaming will catch up to it soon enough, and unless Nintendo, Sony and MS manage to revitalize console gaming in some way I seriously doubt there will be a next generation after this.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Valve to release next gen PC to compete with consoles.

Yay, another derail by people hating on Nintendo purely to hate upon Nintendo~.

(Well, to be fair, that's always what it looks like from my perspective until people start mentioning specific things they don't like, at any rate.)

[Malacite]

Re: Valve to release next gen PC to compete with consoles.

Size doesn't = quality.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Valve to release next gen PC to compete with consoles.

I'm not talking about sales figures here (although I should've specified in my post) but simply about the console itself. I know you will defend it to the end of time because you are a huge fan. But most people who would normally be excited about this console just aren't. The console is subpar, and will only try to repeat the same act one-trick as the Wii. But I think the future of gaming will catch up to it soon enough, and unless Nintendo, Sony and MS manage to revitalize console gaming in some way I seriously doubt there will be a next generation after this.

You're not explaining why its "underwhelming" or "sub par," though. I always knew this was going to be more of a current gen HD console with more online integration, staying a step behind and using lateral-thinking is just what they do. Power does not win generations. If it did, PS3 would be king (for as long as its RAM allowed) and there it is in third place worldwide.

Whatever becomes of the big three, I'm more concerned about where that fallout would leave Sony and MS. Sony is teetering on the brink financially and MS seems rather disorganized and halfhearted on some fronts. I do see MS appearlng to rebuild more game studio talent. A new Montreal studio seems to have begun work on a new IP for MS and 343 will keep at Halo. God only knows what they'll do with Lionhead and Rare, but I hope it isn't as pitiful as what they put out this gen.

For Sony to succeed, they need to swallow their pride. Given they haven't done that since the E3 after Xbox and GameCube launched, I have my doubts they'll come to their senses.

As it is, MS and Sony were already falling all over themselves to have some version of touch-screen integraton into PS3 and 360 to compete. Smartglass is a gimmick at best and, worse, gated by Xbox Live per usual (so my smartphone is basically and Xbox remote). PS3 and Vita just were not built to do what Wii U does and will suffer latency issues for it. Now I have to wonder if they'll come up with their own version of Miiverse as social network integration is somewhere Nintendo did manage to leap ahead of the competition.

what gets me about MS is they think they can just spit in Valve's face and walk away. Their pride is similar to Sony's in that they think people are gaga for their other products and they do not share this obsessive following Apple maintains.

To top it all off - Nintendo, Valve and iOS are now the most indie-friendly platforms. This is not opinion, just fact. The don't charge authentication/patch fees, which is great for big publishers and indies alike. All three also let developers set their own prices. MS won't even give up its moon money long past when Nintendo has.

Tablets remain a threat, but even if NIntendo has to evolve to deal with them, they're in a better position to make the transition as they've preserved their history incrediby well.

----------------

Now, if you're all done talking about Nintendo, can we get back to the whole Steam PC thing? That's kind of what I made this post about. I don't mean to behoove you of your irrational hate toward a console you have not played or owned, but its not what this thread was for.

[Raydeus]

Re: Valve to release next gen PC to compete with consoles.

I don't see how saying what I see equates to hating the thing. I can't honestly praise a console which only redeeming quality is having more developers working on it because it's cheaper. It's like praising the Betamax because it managed to bribe studios into releasing mostly for the Beta instead of the VHS.

But either way this concerns all the other consoles. And Nintendo was the first to launch a "Next gen" console that will compete with Valve's initiative, which is why I mentioned them in the first place. My point simply is that with Steam's new options to reach a broader audience, and Cloud Gaming in the horizon, gaming could see some major changes in the near future regarding how games are consumed. Just like it happened to TV, music and other media.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Valve to release next gen PC to compete with consoles.

This is about the Steam PC.

Nintendo and Valve likely will not go head-to-head. The reason I don't think Nintendo is relevant to this discussion is because MS and Sony have the most to lose when it comes to a Steam PC. Every third party game worth its salt shows up on Steam. People buy 360s and PS3s for third party games. People buy Nintendo hardware for Nintendo games and despite whatever effort Nintendo puts forth to get greater third party that probably isn't going to change. This is more because Nintendo's fanbase is xenophobic and third parties exist to be weighed against whatever Nintendo does (which Mal has an interesting habit of doing. Doesn't matter what it is, Mal thinks that shitheap Twilight Princess was better).

I will get third party games unique to the Wii U, but if its a third party game for PC and consoles, then PC is the best place for that. Nintendo's approach at least forces the issue of making a game that caters to its platform, which is a case Sony and MS don't make for their own.

I don't intend to support my 360 that much further, pretty much everything I own on 360 is on Steam and is generally cheaper and better there. A Steam PC and a Wii U would essentially round out all my home gaming needs.

Cloud gaming doesn't have the infrastructure or speed to be feasible yet and by the time it does we'll probably have leaner hardware with more flash storage and a stronger capacity to rewrite higher than we can count. Its cool for practical appllications, but gimmicky for gaming, plus the last thing I want is to leave my game and game saves in the hands of a third party. Digital distribution is preferable to the cloud.

[Malacite]

Re: Valve to release next gen PC to compete with consoles.

Wait what? What does my liking TP have to do with anything? At what point did I ever put that game on a pedestal above everything else Nintendo's ever done, because there's a lot they've done that I hold near & dear to me (far more than TP). Just not so much in recent years. The only reason I keep referring to it is because it was one of the most visually impressive games on the Wii, AND IT WAS A LAUNCH TITLE and then we got mountains of garbage for several years. Granted that's largely 3rd party fault but still.


I'm curious to see how this Steam-PC goes. I HATE building gaming rigs because of the ridiculous cost, but if Valve can make one that I can use with my HDTV that's a simple to use... Oh Em Gee.

[Firewind]

Re: Valve to release next gen PC to compete with consoles.

When Big Picture was announced I always said that this would be great for living room PCs and the stuff you could do if you rigged one or a laptop up to a big screen TV. That said...Valve are a software developer so I'm not 100% sure as to how well they would make a PC, or how the article links to Valve developing PC hardware. If anything it points to them competing with the big 3 in terms of what we would use for gaming in the living room.

PCs do have three disadvantages though when rigged up to a TV:

Input lag (especially if you use a HDMI cable like I do). While it is easy to change OS settings to recalibrate for that.

The entire desktop needs to be rescaled to a VERY high DPI setting and enable a magnifying application to be able to read anything, and not every programme out there is compatible with this. I think everyone in the Magic the Gathering group remembers my rant on Skype about Cockatrice not being compatible with this (which is why I always have to ask how big each creature is), forcing me to find a workaround so I can read things on the screen. Shogun Total War 2 is another great example of something not compatible with high DPI settings. You basically have to find each and every programme and check to see if it is compatible with high DPI settings and then disable rescaling if it is not.

TVs have a fixed resolution and refresh rate. If a game is not compatible with this combination or does not have a windowed fullscreen option you can't play it. This is less of an issue with modern games but good luck playing anything you got from gog.com or Steam that is more than a few years old because of this.

As soon as those kinks are ironed out I can see this being a truly awesome thing. But at the moment it is far less hassle to just plug in a console that will work with my TV straight out of the box, then go hang out with my family while it downloads several hours of updates. You have to remember what the average person is willing to go through to get something to work: something that works straight out of the box vs something that will work but only after wading through a shedload of compatibility and display issues.

[Icemage]

Re: Valve to release next gen PC to compete with consoles.

I think it's an interesting proposition, and I like where Valve's going with this, but I also don't see how this makes "true consoles" obsolete.

Steam's a great unifier, but unless there is enormous uptake of this idea (and to me, "enormous" means > 10M total units shipped), I don't see the continuous drift away from AAA PC game development changing course. Software developers respond to market share and addressable install bases.

There's also the issue of control schemes. While I think everyone will agree that KB/M beats any other controller currently known in terms of responsiveness for first-person games, I also think WASD is sort of hokey and archaic even for FPS games. KB/M is also the king of RTS. Other genres, on the other hand, suffer somewhat. Third person shooters are "ok" on KB/M but the faster aiming is offset by more awkward movement controls (Mass Effect is a good example here). Third person non-shooters like Devil May Cry undoubtedly suffer from being played KB/M. Twin-stick and many single-stick games of many sorts that benefit from analog sticks are incredibly awkward on PC (shmups, twin-stick shooters, 1v1 brawlers like Street Fighter, etc.). While it's true that you can certainly add a controller on to a PC, it's an open question whether shipping with a standardized controller would change the fortunes of the PC gaming market for any games that would benefit from a controller.

And yes, the hardware non-conformity issue with the PC platform is an ongoing headache for developers; both in terms of updates and legacy game support. Also: what happens when people want to upgrade? More headaches unless you're pretty tech-savvy.

If Valve can get around some of these issues, I think they'll be successful, but I don't quite see this completely eliminating the traditional console market, any more than I see the Ouya doing so.


Icemage