Wii U Discussion

[Armando]

Re: Wii U Discussion

Motion waggle or DRM being offline have similar effects: they make a game suck and basically make it unplayable.

Yes, but again, Nintendo's not forcing anyone to use motion controls. Why is it that people malign Nintendo specifically instead of the people making shitty motion-controlled games? Nobody jumps down Sony's throat for the amount of shovelware the PS2 had. Who cares if there were 1000 bad titles if there were still 30 good ones to choose from?

The reason I bring up DIII and SimCity at all is that Nintendo always seems to have a legion of haters at the wings ready to jump in and prop up straw men about hardware and gimmicks and casuals. You don't see that kind of fervent trolling against Blizzard and Maxim from the people that didn't buy their shit even though they ARE directly resposible for the bullshit they did to their games. It's like the mere existence of a console they don't like drives some people insane.

[Malacite]

Re: Wii U Discussion

But Diablo III and SimCity get a pass because...?

Millions of people just roll over and buy Activision and EA's products regardless of any complaints they (supposedly) have? (Speaking as someone who did buy D3 regardless purely because I wanted to play the campaign and see how it all ended - the shitty state of the game and the multi-player was kind of an afterthought.) I still refuse to buy CoD (again, only done so in the past as gifts for my brother, which conveniently also lets me get 1st hand experience with them to see for myself if they've improved; thankfully he's come to the same conclusion as I have finally and said F it to that series) and I'm on the fence about BF4.

[Icemage]

Re: Wii U Discussion

You really think this is worse than taking games and forcing them to be online-only even when you have no intention of playing with other people? It's not like Nintendo's holding devs at gunpoint to use motion controls. If you want to put your indie platformer on the Wii or Wii U, nobody's going to force you to include waggling or whatever.

Motion waggle or DRM being offline have similar effects: they make a game suck and basically make it unplayable.

DRM has infected a few high profile titles, but it hasn't yet ruined a large chunk of the market; not to the point that motion controls have (how many games have "Better with Kinect!" slapped on them?). More to the point, there has been serious pushback against online DRM. Every time someone has tried to do it with something that isn't account-based like an MMO, they've gotten burned over it. I can't wait to hear the whining when the SimCity servers eventually get taken down, for instance.

But Diablo III and SimCity get a pass because...?

They don't? I didn't buy either game. Just because DRM sucks, and always online sucks, doesn't mean motion controls also don't suck. Yes?


Icemage

[Armando]

Re: Wii U Discussion

Nintendo pushed motion gaming on us and tried to convince us it was the Next Best Thing, which caused Microsoft and Sony to follow suit to varying degrees.

You really think this is worse than taking games and forcing them to be online-only even when you have no intention of playing with other people? It's not like Nintendo's holding devs at gunpoint to use motion controls. If you want to put your indie platformer on the Wii or Wii U, nobody's going to force you to include waggling or whatever.

The Wii U doesn't get the benefit of the doubt because we have millions of tablets, and millions of HD consoles already in the wild and still being sold. It's not "new" to anyone.

But Diablo III and SimCity get a pass because...?

[Icemage]

Re: Wii U Discussion

Alright, I can respect that. But in that case, isn't the Wii U right up your alley? It just seems to me like people make a bigger deal about changes to input methods than changes to game design when they have the same end-result.

Blizzard does something retarded like RMAH and online-only Diablo III? Benefit of the doubt, still buying it, and I'll even put up with it for a while, and continue to play even after it starts to set in that this is a real problem.
Don't like a Nintendo game? No sale. If they just got rid of that gimmicky hardware, I would've liked and bought it.

I don't think that's fair.

Speaking for myself, I've been openly critical of Nintendo's approach since they unveiled the Wii U console. I think it's bad for Nintendo, bad for the game industry in general, and honestly doesn't serve consumers either. I don't hate Nintendo for being Nintendo. I am disappointed that they make some very myopic choices when it comes to cultivating a customer base, and the Wii U unfortunately puts all of those bad decisions together in one place.

It's not a bad console (at least not bad in the way of a Virtual Boy or NEO GEO), but it's definitely an answer to a question that few people have asked. People simply aren't that interested in a tablet/console hybrid. They already own consoles, and they already own tablets, and the Wii U just sort of sits in the middle, neither fish nor fowl, and hasn't proven to the masses why it should be in their home. The only thing causing it to sell any units whatsoever is the Nintendo brand name on it. If that console had been released by any other company, it would have sank like a stone, instead of just sinking slowly.

The honest truth, since we're ranting about things like DRM, is that I think Nintendo and Apple have done far more damage to the gaming market than any amount of DRM or shady DLC practices. Nintendo pushed motion gaming on us and tried to convince us it was the Next Best Thing, which caused Microsoft and Sony to follow suit to varying degrees. Apple for their part have caused mobile gaming to devolve into a wasteland of $1 and freemium games that suck out your soul unless you pay far more than the games are actually worth.

Right now, Nintendo's biggest problem is that Iwata started believing his own BS about how interface innovation was the future. The Wii took the world by storm because we had never seen a simple mass market motion control device before. It was new to pretty much everyone, and that is what made it sell like hotcakes before everyone realized that waggle actually didn't produce very many good gameplay ideas and wasn't useful for much of anything else. The Wii U doesn't get the benefit of the doubt because we have millions of tablets, and millions of HD consoles already in the wild and still being sold. It's not "new" to anyone.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Wii U Discussion

It's actually not just the overcrowding, apparently MS is incredibly frustrating/difficult to work with for Indie developers, and they're flocking to PS4 in droves. Not just because of the hardware, but Sony's being more open/friendly if you will.

I'll believe the "flocking" to PS4 when I see it. I'm very sure its going to be better on the PS4 than PS3 and 360 just on the basics but its too early to call how the indie thing with shake out until MS does say something. The ball is in their court now, the silence is the only think making their future look murky and that continued silence may be what costs them because Nintendo and Sony are making all the right moves toward appealing to indies.

Right now Sony, Nintendo and Valve all encourage a healthier environment just by waiving authentication fees and letting indies set their own prices and sales. Basically, this is done elsewhere and Sony's just screaming about it the loudest right now because the Vita could really use the help. Its still great news, though.

Also worth noting Sony and Nintendo are both supporting Unity and Nintendo also talked up Nintendo Web Framework at GDC, which seemed to be very well-received.

Nintendo hopes to win app and web devs to Wii U with JavaScript�tools | Polygon

[Malacite]

Re: Wii U Discussion

It's actually not just the overcrowding, apparently MS is incredibly frustrating/difficult to work with for Indie developers, and they're flocking to PS4 in droves. Not just because of the hardware, but Sony's being more open/friendly if you will.


Microsoft's Next Move | Bonus Round Full Episodes | GameTrailers (covers mostly xbox but there's a segment in there where they mention Indie games)

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Wii U Discussion

What, making gimmicky hardware that turns me off from purchasing any of their systems?

Nintendo might not need to go third party, but they could do with some change in focus.

2003 was the middle of the era in which Nintendo tried conforming.

They soundly lost in that generation, IIRC.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Wii U Discussion

Its worth pointing out that the GameCube and Wii (and all the prior and current consoles) launched in a different period than where we are now Mal. Wii had a decent amount of launch software and while Zelda helped, lots of it was "casual" stuff and the platform itself was pre-smartphone/tablet like PS3 and 360 both were. The smartphone/tablet market not only widened the casual market more than the Wii had, but the gold rush mentality that followed drastically changed investor expectation, which is why you see games like Megaman X now raped with in-app purchases. We've only just started to see the fallout of that within the last year, the F2P bubble is starting to burst with mobile games and there are disenfranchised indies are moving to Nintendo, Sony and Valve to find a less overcrowded market

With 3DS, Vita and Wii U having all struggled to get off the ground, though, I wouldn't get my hopes up too much about PS4 or the next Xbox taking the world by storm just yet. The disruption that Apple and others have caused hasn't completely blown over yet. Plus AAA publishers haven't been without their own recklessness and we've just started to see the AAA approach come apart at the seams.

This is the world Wii U, PS4 and the next Xbox are launching into and so far its not all that pretty.

[Malacite]

Re: Wii U Discussion

You're right, Cid. I acknowledge a lot of uniformity going around in current and upcoming hardware because I have a raging erection for Nintendo.

Coulda fooled me


Back on topic though, ya'll gave me shit for saying it, BUT THERE'S IWATA HIMSELF ADMITTING IT! VINDICATION!!!

“When we launched GameCube, the initial sales were good, and all the hardware we manufactured at that time were sold through. However, after this period, we could not provide the market with strong software titles in a timely fashion. As a result we could not leverage the initial launch time momentum, and sales of GameCube slowed down. To avoid repeating this with Wii, we have been intensifying the software development, both internally at Nintendo and at developers outside the company, in order to prepare aggressive software lineup for Wii at and after the launch.” says Iwata. He then says, ”We believe it is important to provide the market with strong software without a long interval in order to keep the launch time momentum.”

And that pretty much sums up why I didn't like the GC - not enough solid games. Too bad they couldn't follow up on that statement about the Wii either (we're lucky we even got Xenoblade, TLS and Pandora's Tower at all.)

[Armando]

Re: Wii U Discussion

Oh really? Do tell.

Take it to PMs if you want, this is the Wii U thread. /moderator

[cidbahamut]

Re: Wii U Discussion

You mean like how people used to frame me as some racist homophobe when that wasn't true, either?

Oh really? Do tell.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Wii U Discussion

Are you seriously going to deny the fact that you have a huge boner for Nintendo? Are you really going to pretend it isn't there BBQ? Everyone else in the room can see it, so it's not like pretending it isn't there is suddenly going to hide it from view.

You mean like how people used to frame me as some racist homophobe when that wasn't true, either?

I think I've actually made it more than clear that if I'm a fanboy of anything, its Atlus.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Wii U Discussion

Are you seriously going to deny the fact that you have a huge boner for Nintendo? Are you really going to pretend it isn't there BBQ? Everyone else in the room can see it, so it's not like pretending it isn't there is suddenly going to hide it from view.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Wii U Discussion

You're right, Cid. I acknowledge a lot of uniformity going around in current and upcoming hardware because I have a raging erection for Nintendo.

This uniformity is even present in Nintendo and Sony's new and honestly great attempts to appeal to indies (waiving authentication fees, letting them set their own prices, self-publishing and the like).This means I grudgingly have to accept that Sony has joined the side of the angels alongside Valve and Nintendo and I will have to work extra hard to contrive reasons to hate them with every fiber of my being.

Or I'll just enjoy Guacamelee, Hotline Miami and Terraria on my PS Vita.