Wii U ???s…Or just happy story :). Your reading choice

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Wii U ???s…Or just happy story . Your reading choice

If you pay attention to the wording, this doesn't seem to be a forever thing, but a "for now" thing. You know, given smartphones and 3DS. These things have to be integrated and I imagine overhauling a decrepit system takes time. Pretty sure this will change within the year.

Also I know if you pester the fuck out of customer support, you can get digital content back. I've done it with the DSi.

Given how sturdy Nintendo consoles are, it's a risk I'm willing to take.

Wii U's already looking more inviting for digital content than PS3 and 360 currently are, given they won't levy fees on devs and publishers for patches like Sony and MS do, Fez cant be patched on Live because MS wants 40k to authenticate a patch. Sony and MS waive these fees only if theres some kind of exclusivity deal. For MS, its usually timed exclusive DLC, for Sony its selling your IP to them. I like the Nintendo, Steam and Apple way better, as it also means much less on-disc DLC chicanery from third parties.

[Icemage]

Re: Wii U ???s…Or just happy story . Your reading choice

If you pay attention to the wording, this doesn't seem to be a forever thing, but a "for now" thing. You know, given smartphones and 3DS. These things have to be integrated and I imagine overhauling a decrepit system takes time. Pretty sure this will change within the year.

Also I know if you pester the fuck out of customer support, you can get digital content back. I've done it with the DSi.

Given how sturdy Nintendo consoles are, it's a risk I'm willing to take.

Wii U's already looking more inviting for digital content than PS3 and 360 currently are, given they won't levy fees on devs and publishers for patches like Sony and MS do, Fez cant be patched on Live because MS wants 40k to authenticate a patch. Sony and MS waive these fees only if theres some kind of exclusivity deal. For MS, its usually timed exclusive DLC, for Sony its selling your IP to them. I like the Nintendo, Steam and Apple way better, as it also means much less on-disc DLC chicanery from third parties.

And what do you do if someone breaks into your home and steals your console?

The wording of "future devices" could just as well mean "Oh, well when we release the Wii U 2 you can do the same process and transfer your data again, unless something happens in the mean time." The fact is, right now, you can't own 2 Wii Us for two different rooms and buy content for both, or transfer it back and forth easily (or at all? I don't know if there's even a method to transfer content from one Wii U to another - there certainly isn't one for the Wii short of shipping BOTH consoles back to Nintendo).


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Wii U ???s…Or just happy story . Your reading choice

If it gets stolen Nintendo's thing seems to be that you submit a copy of the police report. Then they'll restore. Crass, but effective. I'm not really interested in worst case scenario arguments, as I've taken the needed measures for that. I know how people get robbed where I live.

I'm not going to assume anything is set in stone with a console as online networks are always a work in progress. Lots about the PSP, 3DS, PS3, and 360 are different now compared to when they launched. In PS3's case, its with fewer features than when it started and content sharing is a damn police state.

[Romyro]

Re: Wii U ???s…Or just happy story . Your reading choice

Ha…either gamestop had plenty systems in or their ‘wait list’ is a little flawed.
Worked out for me though.

I put mine on hold maybe 2 weeks ago. I went in yesterday to see if they could tell me how far I am on the list. Also told them my phone was broke and wasn’t sure if they called (which is untrue ). Just so happen they had a couple in stock (for wait listers) and gave me one. I can’t imagine I was close to next in line but you never know.

Very excited I got though the downloads with no issues. Been hearing some horror stories about Bricking.

Anyway, by the time I as actually able to jump on and mess around with it, it was already past midnight so I only got ½ or so in. Kids don’t know about it yet, they should be pretty excited.

I played the Donkey Kong, Ninja and Metriod game. for the 10 minutes I played Metroid, it was hella fun. Controls will take a lot of getting used to, but so what.

I may or may not go to sleep tonight after work

[geogolem]

Re: Wii U ???s…Or just happy story . Your reading choice

I really like the Wii U!!! I haven't really touched Nintendo Land yet. but Ive been playing NSMB U and fooling around with various things in Miiverse etc.

I think Miiverse is really great.

NSMB U is also really great - much better than I expected. I only wish it had online multiplayer instead of just the Miiverse interaction.

[Icemage]

Re: Wii U ???s…Or just happy story . Your reading choice

If it gets stolen Nintendo's thing seems to be that you submit a copy of the police report. Then they'll restore. Crass, but effective. I'm not really interested in worst case scenario arguments, as I've taken the needed measures for that. I know how people get robbed where I live.

I'm not going to assume anything is set in stone with a console as online networks are always a work in progress. Lots about the PSP, 3DS, PS3, and 360 are different now compared to when they launched. In PS3's case, its with fewer features than when it started and content sharing is a damn police state.

Looks like Nintendo has doubled down on the situation with respect to the Wii U:

Nintendo of America Says Wii U Online IDs Aren't Locked To One Console Forever.

According to that report, someone bought a Wii U which broke soon thereafter and returned it to Amazon, only to find that they couldn't use their already-created Nintendo Network ID on the new unit.

Nintendo customer service then insisted that there was nothing they could do, as they needed the original unit to do the login transfer, even though the user had the serial number and login information.

He's lucky it happened very early before he purchased anything from the eShop, but I think this really underscores what a moronic policy Nintendo has on this topic.


Icemage

[Icemage]

Re: Wii U ???s…Or just happy story . Your reading choice

Here's another horror story from Ars Technica about what can (and has) gone wrong with the DRM transfer from Wii to Wii U.

How Nintendo DRM trapped $400 of downloaded games on my failing Wii (updated) | Ars Technica

I was told that the only way to get my account moved was to pay for the system repairs, then try the transfer again. The representative seemed unsure if my save data (including the uncopyable Smash Bros. and Mario Kart data) would be safe throughout the repair process. He assured me that my license and account data would be fine and transferable, though, even if Nintendo had to replace the entire system piece by piece.

I had to stand up a bit here. I complained that the quoted $85 seemed like a high price for the ability to transfer games I already legally purchased (and to repair a system I was literally planning on never using again). My efforts earned me a “loyal customer” discount of $25. The rep then e-mailed me a printable shipping slip and said I had 14 months to use it. I would be charged $60 (plus Pennsylvania sales tax) only when the system was repaired and ready to be sent back—one to two weeks after Nintendo receives it.

In this case, the Wii/Wii U data transfer tool crashed in the middle of the transfer. Because the Wii is now out of warranty, Nintendo is now insisting that they pay $85 (minus a $25 "loyal customer" discount... lol) to assist with the data migration.

The same situation will occur if for some reason something happens to your Wii U (broken, fried by lightning, stolen, or anything else) after the warranty expires in 1 year from purchase. Or maybe you buy a newer Wii U because you like the color scheme, or it has some new feature you like. In all of these cases, you're going to have to pay Nintendo for a "repair" to get your account back.


Icemage

[Raydeus]

Re: Wii U ???s…Or just happy story . Your reading choice

Then again it's pretty comforting seeing Nintendo sticking to their guns and learning nothing from services like Steam. All because they develop for the pirates instead of developing for their paying costumers.

Hopefully Sony and MS will go down the same road with their consoles (with all the regional and DRM shenanigans) so we can see consoles die faster.

[Armando]

Re: Wii U ???s…Or just happy story . Your reading choice

Then again it's pretty comforting seeing Nintendo sticking to their guns and learning nothing from services like Steam. All because they develop for the pirates instead of developing for their paying costumers.

The Nintendo site hints the lack of NNID transfer is temporary. The question is how long it'll take. Looks like the real danger right now is getting your console stolen.

[Icemage]

Re: Wii U ???s…Or just happy story . Your reading choice

The Nintendo site hints the lack of NNID transfer is temporary. The question is how long it'll take. Looks like the real danger right now is getting your console stolen.

I've already posted two cases of known issues above, and then there are the people whose Wii U hardware got bricked because of a problem during an update.

The language about "yet" is weasel-speak for "there's nothing you can do about it now and we might do something about it in the future" ...but maybe we won't.

Considering this policy has been in place on the Wii for the past 6 years, and that policy is the default setup on the Wii U, what indicates to you that Nintendo will do anything to improve the situation? They obviously think it's better than the alternative. If they didn't, the policy for the Wii U would be different.


Icemage

[Armando]

Re: Wii U ???s…Or just happy story . Your reading choice

Considering this policy has been in place on the Wii for the past 6 years, and that policy is the default setup on the Wii U, what indicates to you that Nintendo will do anything to improve the situation?

The fact that Nintendo Network is obviously in its infancy? They said you'd be able to log into the Nintendo Network from 3DS and PCs, that feature is nowhere in sight. Nintendo TVii still hasn't launched either.

They obviously think it's better than the alternative. If they didn't, the policy for the Wii U would be different.

And yet the Wii had no account system, and the Wii U does. So obviously Nintendo CAN change their minds regardless of what their policies for the past 6 years were.

Will they make the change? We'll see. But ruling the possibility out is as foolish as blindly assuming that they'll follow through. It's too early to tell. But they clearly have bigger plans for the Nintendo Network than what's currently available.

[Icemage]

Re: Wii U ???s…Or just happy story . Your reading choice

The fact that Nintendo Network is obviously in its infancy? They said you'd be able to log into the Nintendo Network from 3DS and PCs, that feature is nowhere in sight. Nintendo TVii still hasn't launched either.

Let's back up the conversation a bit and talk about what, exactly, Nintendo had to do, what they had as examples to look at, and what they had time to accomplish. Obviously at the launch of the Wii, Nintendo didn't have an account system, and they figured tying purchases to the Wii hardware was going to be fine. That was 2006.

Since then, they've seen Xbox Live and PlayStation Network grow up literally in front of them, as well as iOS, Steam and more recently Origin. ALL of these services work on multiple devices. They've literally seen the creation of new online services from start to finish with respect to PSN and Origin within this time frame, so it's not like they were missing a crucial step somewhere in the blueprint.

In those six years, Nintendo created the 3DS and the Wii U, neither of which has a sensible DRM scheme.

And yet the Wii had no account system, and the Wii U does. So obviously Nintendo CAN change their minds regardless of what their policies for the past 6 years were.

Nintendo has had an account system for ages if you look at Club Nintendo. As for the NNID on the Wii U... so what? If a duck is a terrible DRM scheme, the NNID still walks like a duck and talks like a duck. There is ZERO effective difference in terms of digital rights between what the Wii U has and what the Wii has. You can't purchase content for more than one machine, and you can't move the content yourself except with the arcane (and long and fraught with peril) tool(s) that Nintendo gives you. You can't purchase a new unit if you happen to like another model better without paying Nintendo's toll for "repair". You have to purchase content multiple times if you happen to have more than one machine (maybe for different rooms, or different homes).

Just because you now have an "account" doesn't mean squat when you have none of the expected benefits. Nintendo could have just said "Oh, you can NAME YOUR MACHINE and no one else can have that name" and the net effect would have been exactly the same.

Will they make the change? We'll see. But ruling the possibility out is as foolish as blindly assuming that they'll follow through. It's too early to tell. But they clearly have bigger plans for the Nintendo Network than what's currently available.

I'm sure they do, but the fact that what they've taken away from six years of observation is that "oh, online accounts are apparently a thing" implies a level of obliviousness that is breathtaking in the worst possible way. It's like they said "Oh, people want accounts because it's easier to remember online handles than friend codes!", slapped their foreheads, and made something that addressed that single problem (awkwardly, at that) and stopped worrying about it afterwards.

I'm not saying they can't fix it. I'm saying they've had 6 years to fix this broken system since the launch of the Wii and they didn't do anything in that time frame.

Icemage

[Armando]

Re: Wii U ???s…Or just happy story . Your reading choice

here is ZERO effective difference in terms of digital rights between what the Wii U has and what the Wii has.

Except for the part where your purchases are tied to your account and not the console, sure.

If your Wii disappears, you are 100% fucked. If your Wii U explodes, you're at Nintendo's mercy. That's a pretty big difference; Nintendo can change their minds and let you move NNIDs between consoles, and the problem is solved. Nothing's bringing back the games on missing Wii, Nintendo has no record of them.

I'm not saying they can't fix it. I'm saying they've had 6 years to fix this broken system since the launch of the Wii and they didn't do anything in that time frame.

Granted. I was expecting better than their current policy as well.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Wii U ???s…Or just happy story . Your reading choice

Is the PSN of today the same PSN as it launched? Nope.
Is the Xbox Live of today the same XBL as it launched? Nope.
Is Steam the same network today as it launched? Again, nope.

Origin is the same network as when it launched, it suffers and is reviled because EA thinks they're God's gift to gaming.

Nintendo is a bit more humble than that these days. The Iwata era isn't as flat-out arrogant as the Yamauchi era. Things will change and if 3DS's turnaround and evolution is any indication, things will change sooner than later.

I'd say most networks change for the better. PSN isn't as problematic as it used to be, but download speeds off that network are still assy and online passes for first-party games are highly anti-consumer. Gating access to saves by proprietary media or PS+ subscriptions were also changs for the worse (fuck your precious trophy system, let my move my saves how I want) XBLA is definitely more navigable, though the ads are a bit much at times. Steam just gets better and better and my experience with the Nintendo Network on the 3DS end has been largely the same good experience. The eShop is more intuitive than it was originally and we now have folders to sort games.

Oh, and that system transfer thing. That's a thing that came in an update, too. This is why I think Icemage's gloom and doom is needless bitch-for-bitching's sake. This small issue is just something that will change with time. How it changes who can say?

[Icemage]

Re: Wii U ???s…Or just happy story . Your reading choice

Except for the part where your purchases are tied to your account and not the console, sure.

If your Wii disappears, you are 100% fucked. If your Wii U explodes, you're at Nintendo's mercy. That's a pretty big difference; Nintendo can change their minds and let you move NNIDs between consoles, and the problem is solved. Nothing's bringing back the games on missing Wii, Nintendo has no record of them.

Mostly, though part of that depends on how you acquired the Wii Points in the first place. I bet that if Nintendo tried, they could trace the purchase of points back to a credit card, which could - in theory - prove you own something on the Wii. Of course, if you bought the Wii Points from a card in a store, then yeah, you're probably 100% screwed.

As for the "at Nintendo's mercy" - as noted above, Nintendo customer service apparently has no leeway at all to help someone.

In theory, you're right, there's a difference. In practice... nope, not right now there isn't.

As for BBQ's hilarious "oh it's needless bitching" comment: I'm a heavy purchaser of online content. I buy lots of stuff on Steam and PSN. I've no idea exactly how much digital content I own on those two accounts, but it's upward of $5K for sure. Maybe close to $10K. My Wii, on the other hand, has about $50 of content on it. It's not that the Wii didn't have content I wanted. It's that I don't trust Nintendo to track my online transactions, and I don't trust them to do the sensible thing in case I have to buy a new machine.

I've already said I'll probably get a Wii U at some point, which means that I'll have the opportunity to spend money on the Wii U shop. But until and unless Nintendo can convince me that they've stopped living in the 20th century regarding what I purchase, they're going to see pretty much exactly as much purchasing activity from me on their online storefront as they do now, which is pretty damn close to zero.

That's a large financial reason to get their act together, and it boggles my mind that they don't even perceive it to be a problem.


Icemage