Vita to Challenge Wii-U

[Malacite]

Sony on how PS3 and Vita will play together | Joystiq

During the Develop conference (via Eurogamer), Sony Europe R&D manager Phil Rogers outlined some possible interactions between the PlayStation Vita and the PS3. The systems are already known to share saves across compatible games, and share some interoperable games like Wipeout 2048, but Rogers discussed some other capabilities, including some not yet seen in Vita/PS3 interaction.

"PS3 can send data down to Vita and Vita can display it," he said. "You could use the unique features [of Vita] - gyroscope, touch front and back - as a control device for a PS3 game." In what could be a veiled dig at the Wii U, he also said that because you can have games running on both systems, each using its own processor, "You're not sacrificing the PS3's CPU to be able to have a rich experience on Vita."

At launch, the Vita will have some cross-platform features, including scoreboards and PSN user data. "For launch we'll also have Remote Play, which does look good on Vita - I saw an early version of it running recently." Remote Play, also available on the PSP right now, allows video of compatible titles to be streamed from the PS3 for play on the PSP. Continuation Play, through which a game can be saved on one platform and played on the other, will also be available early on. The first known game to use that is Ruin.

Well, guess that new Zelda had best be damned epic.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Vita to Challenge Wii-U

Its not practical to spin it that way - PS Vita would be an extra cost to be able to do something that Wii U can do out of the box. Well, not everything, as I doubt touchscreen support would be added to PS3 games and it lacks the two bottom shoulder buttons Dual Shocks have..

Its a similar problem the Playstation Move has - Wiimotes were part of the package and Move is a separate purchase that can do similar things at additional expense.

I'd have to spend $120 or more on Move peripherals to enjoy No More Heroes like I did on Wii. Eff that. That's practically a Steel Battalion-sized purchase at that point when you include a full-retail priced game.

Thankfully, this is a feature for Vita, and a pretty unimpressive one given that PSP already did that. The Wii U controller has more potential since its a focal point of the Wii U package and developers will be making games with its touch functionality in mind, meaning a Wii U game loses nothing in the transfer.

Sony can hardly get developers to support Move as it is, do you think they can be bothered to implement Vita functionality into PS3 game, too?

They won't bother. Just like the didn't bother with the PS2 HDD, Eyetoy or Move. Its because Sony makes all these paradigm shifts mid-stride and never from the outset, all in the name of trying to compete with their rivals in the most halfassed way possible. Developers won't take it seriously because of that.

Your motive to buy a Vita should be for Vita and compatible PS3/PSP games, not to stream PS3 game to a $250 controller.

[Cheezeman3000]

Re: Vita to Challenge Wii-U

Its not practical to spin it that way - PS Vita would be an extra cost to be able to do something that Wii U can do out of the box.

My thoughts exactly. Everyone remember the GCN-to-GBA link feature? Remember how few games actually utilized this before it became quickly ignored thanks to the prohibitive costs associated? Yeah.

[Malacite]

Re: Vita to Challenge Wii-U

Its not practical to spin it that way - PS Vita would be an extra cost to be able to do something that Wii U can do out of the box. Well, not everything, as I doubt touchscreen support would be added to PS3 games and it lacks the two bottom shoulder buttons Dual Shocks have..

Except that Vita doubles as a portable system, Wii U doesn't. And depending on how much Sony decides to support Kojima's new "Transfarring", it could even rival the Wii U's ability to play the console's games on the go.


Not hating on Nintendo, just saying that it looks like Sony's going to give them a bigger run for their money this time around. It remains to be seen if the 3DS price drop will have the impact Nintendo is hoping for or not, as it still lacks any really significant must-buys.

[Icemage]

Re: Vita to Challenge Wii-U

Let's be realistic. Not many developers are going to go out of their way to write code for a PS3 + PSV combination, unless Sony themselves do so and successfully demonstrate that people have bought both and will use them together.

With that said, I think it's going to be interesting to see if any Wii U titles get ported over to PS3 + PSV, as I could see THAT being a worthwhile endeavor.

As far as the PSV goes, assuming Sony plays their cards right, they have an excellent opportunity to take over as the handheld console leader in the next generation. They still need a killer app like Pokemon, however.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Vita to Challenge Wii-U

Let's be realistic. Not many developers are going to go out of their way to write code for a PS3 + PSV combination, unless Sony themselves do so and successfully demonstrate that people have bought both and will use them together.

Even if Sony did it, they won't. For some developers they already see the PS3 as something on its way out. Sony has never really hit paydirt with their mid-generation shake-ups as they don't seem to understand these kinds of interactions need to be designed from the outset.

That said, there is no good reason for any HD collection hitting PS3 post-MGS Collection to not be PSV-compatible. I will let Ico and SOTC slide, though I think making them 3D was a bit waste of time and making them PSV compatible would have been more worthwhile.

With that said, I think it's going to be interesting to see if any Wii U titles get ported over to PS3 + PSV, as I could see THAT being a worthwhile endeavor.

Well assuming they can get by without the bottom two shoulder buttons, which Wii U's controller does have. You could play PSVita games with a DS3, but that seems sort of pointless for a handheld.

As far as the PSV goes, assuming Sony plays their cards right, they have an excellent opportunity to take over as the handheld console leader in the next generation. They still need a killer app like Pokemon, however.

So where did your gloom and doom/smartphones will own all stance just go here?

The problem with PSP's "killer apps" were that they call got ported to PS2 and the PSP spent all of its years milking ports from one system or another - not always a bad thing, but still worth mentioning. And if that weren't enough, they're more than willing to pillage PSP's library just to eke out a few more HD remasters.

For PSV to succeed, its going to stand on its own much more than PSP did and I don't think Sony will allow that to happen. People fuss about 3DS's ports now, but for both it and PSV that's kind of the starting point for developers to get their feet wet.

For 3DS I'm confident that trend will subside, but for PSP it never did and that leaves me a bit concerned about Vita. Ports and remakes are cool, but you do need originals/sequels past the first year.

Sony has some slated for Vita, but I must admit I'm not wowed by any of what I've seen.

Not hating on Nintendo, just saying that it looks like Sony's going to give them a bigger run for their money this time around. It remains to be seen if the 3DS price drop will have the impact Nintendo is hoping for or not, as it still lacks any really significant must-buys.

Price has always picked the winner in the handheld market.

Which is going to be cheaper this holiday? While little good came of Nintendo's price drops in the past, this time around the price drop was extremely aggressive and the compensation to early adopters is pretty phenomenal.

Nintendo made the mistake of listening to shareholders when pushing out the 3DS about two months before it was really ready to go. They seem to realize that now and are putting 3DS on offense. I think it will pay off over the holiday

Hell, they're making it compete with the DSi XL. Interestingly, the DSi XL is the same price. I know I could sell my customers a 3DS over that one, especially with parents.

[Icemage]

Re: Vita to Challenge Wii-U

Well assuming they can get by without the bottom two shoulder buttons, which Wii U's controller does have. You could play PSVita games with a DS3, but that seems sort of pointless for a handheld.

That's what the multi-touch back sensors are for, amirite?

So where did your gloom and doom/smartphones will own all stance just go here?

I still think smartphones/tablets will still drastically impact the market. I honestly don't see at this point in time how either the 3DS or the PSV are going to get to DS/PSP levels of sales, because in my view there has been a paradigm shift in the market that has contracted the demographic that is willing to buy a dedicated handheld gaming device.

That doesn't mean I don't think either the 3DS or the PSP can't be successful. I just don't feel that the conditions are right for either one to be as successful as the DS.

The problem with PSP's "killer apps" were that they call got ported to PS2 and the PSP spent all of its years milking ports from one system or another - not always a bad thing, but still worth mentioning. And if that weren't enough, they're more than willing to pillage PSP's library just to eke out a few more HD remasters.

For PSV to succeed, its going to stand on its own much more than PSP did and I don't think Sony will allow that to happen. People fuss about 3DS's ports now, but for both it and PSV that's kind of the starting point for developers to get their feet wet.

I honestly don't think Sony knew what they were doing when they created the PSP in the first place. It reminds me a lot of the original Xbox; vaguely overengineered for what it needed to do, and lacking in compelling software, though both managed to carve out their own niche amongst gamers.

For 3DS I'm confident that trend will subside, but for PSP it never did and that leaves me a bit concerned about Vita. Ports and remakes are cool, but you do need originals/sequels past the first year.

I don't see a single port on the release slate for the PSV so far unless you want to count Hustle Kings, which all of five people bought on PlayStation Network. Where do you get this notion that it's only going to get remakes? If anything, the 3DS is the system suffering from remake-itis at the moment (hi2u Zelda OoT3D), though I agree that will change going forward.

Price has always picked the winner in the handheld market.

That's not really saying much considering what little history we have to go by for handhelds. Not to mention that the new generation of gaming handhelds is in a different market space than their predecessors, cost a lot more, and have a lot more functions.

Price is always a consideration when it comes to entertainment spending, but if price were the only deciding factor, the GameCube would have won generation 6 after it was the first to hit $100, and that didn't happen.

I'd say the PSV is actually a more direct competitor to the iPad than it is to the 3DS. It serves many of the same functions as an iPad, costs less, plays better games, and is more portable. Whether this combination covers enough of a demographic to make it successful is an open question.

The 3DS's biggest enemy right now is the DSi. At the moment, there's just not many reasons to upgrade unless you're absolutely dying to play Steel Diver or something.

Which is going to be cheaper this holiday? While little good came of Nintendo's price drops in the past, this time around the price drop was extremely aggressive and the compensation to early adopters is pretty phenomenal.

I'll note that I haven't written the 3DS off yet; it's still got one holiday season to turn its fortunes around - and I hope it does. However, I'll point again to the GameCube, which dropped to $99 in September 2003, and was still reacted to with a collective "meh" from the market. Price is not the only consideration. It's a big contributor, but marketing/hype and desirability are also in the mix and neither of the latter is driving the 3DS at the moment when it's still limping along with a ho-hum launch slate of games.

Nintendo made the mistake of listening to shareholders when pushing out the 3DS about two months before it was really ready to go. They seem to realize that now and are putting 3DS on offense. I think it will pay off over the holiday

Hell, they're making it compete with the DSi XL. Interestingly, the DSi XL is the same price. I know I could sell my customers a 3DS over that one, especially with parents.

The 3DS doesn't compete with the DSi XL. It competes with the DSi, and right now, it's losing that comparison (much the same way the PS3 lost out in comparison to its older brother the PS2 when it launched).

The price cut puts it on a more equal footing, but again, without something compelling to play on it that gets kids and other people to say "I want THAT one!", I don't see why your optimism is so strong.

There's hope for the 3DS, certainly, but you make it sound like it's a shoe-in for success this holiday season. If price were the only factor, don't you think the Wii would still be selling like hotcakes?


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Vita to Challenge Wii-U

That's what the multi-touch back sensors are for, amirite?

For the programmers that ultilize it, maybe, which we've already acknowledged they probably won't.

I still maintain the feature was there to prevent the possibility of normal backward compatibility than any attempt at innovative design. Sony just seems to have a problem with letting play your old games and won't allow for it unless you buy them again. This would be the second time, too, so I'd call that a trend.

I don't see a single port on the release slate for the PSV so far unless you want to count Hustle Kings, which all of five people bought on PlayStation Network. Where do you get this notion that it's only going to get remakes? If anything, the 3DS is the system suffering from remake-itis at the moment (hi2u Zelda OoT3D), though I agree that will change going forward.

Where did I get this notion? PSP would be it, I'd think.

Even with some original IPs at launch, it doesn't matter if they're not compelling. Or is anyone having real find memories of Untold Legends? I don't think so.

Its really about having the right mix of games. New IPs don't save you any more than remakes do if you don't have enough variety. So far, the only appeal of PSV for me so far is the ability to play my PSP/PSX games and possibly a better mobile web browser than what 3DS offers.

That's not really saying much considering what little history we have to go by for handhelds. Not to mention that the new generation of gaming handhelds is in a different market space than their predecessors, cost a lot more, and have a lot more functions.

Come on now, you're seriously going to argue against 22 years of data that proves this time and time and time again? Are you going to place bets on an army that wants to take on Russia in the midst of winter, too? You yourself cited cost as a deciding factor for iOS vs. 3DS, you can't backpedal on the facts.

By your previous logic, iOS and 3DS would stomp PSV flat. Not enough data my ass. Price and value matter

Let's not even get into the hilarity of you saying Vita is an iPad competitor, as Sony's two tablets are being made with that intent, not PSV. And no one is going to top Apple until they do the exact things i've talked about:

Beat them in price.
Beat them in value

Someone will find a way to do what Apple does better and cheaper, because Apple is waaaaaay too complacent in their position right now, charging an arm and a leg for additions that would cost a few dollars to add, such as 3G and more GBs than the pittance they offer.

[Icemage]

Re: Vita to Challenge Wii-U

For the programmers that ultilize it, maybe, which we've already acknowledged they probably won't.

And you know this because you've played some PSV games already? The back multitouch is the obvious equivalent to address the lack of secondary shoulder buttons, and I'm sure "someone" will try it, and if it ends up working then more people will follow suit.

I still maintain the feature was there to prevent the possibility of normal backward compatibility than any attempt at innovative design. Sony just seems to have a problem with letting play your old games and won't allow for it unless you buy them again. This would be the second time, too, so I'd call that a trend.

Huh? Aside from really weird stuff like Little Deviants where the backtouch is being used for directional pointing, I don't see how this would break compatibility; if it's just being used as a haptic control in a similar vein as iOS touch controls to make up for the lack of buttons on iOS devices, why would this be a barrier of any sort to a future port?

Come on now, you're seriously going to argue against 22 years of data that proves this time and time and time again? Are you going to place bets on an army that wants to take on Russia in the midst of winter, too? You yourself cited cost as a deciding factor for iOS vs. 3DS, you can't backpedal on the facts.

Who's backpedaling? I even said in the post that I think smartphones have imploded the market for dedicated gaming handhelds to a significant extent. They haven't eliminated the market completely partly because of market inertia, and more importantly because they just don't have the control schemes to compete with a true gaming handheld, but a lot of people don't care about that.

By your previous logic, iOS and 3DS would stomp PSV flat. Not enough data my ass. Price and value matter

And well they might. Where did I say the PSV would prevail definitely against either? I said Sony have an opportunity to beat the 3DS, and they do. That's all.

Let's not even get into the hilarity of you saying Vita is an iPad competitor, as Sony's two tablets are being made with that intent, not PSV. And no one is going to top Apple until they do the exact things i've talked about:

Beat them in price.
Beat them in value

Someone will find a way to do what Apple does better and cheaper, because Apple is waaaaaay too complacent in their position right now, charging an arm and a leg for additions that would cost a few dollars to add, such as 3G and more GBs than the pittance they offer.

Earth to BBQ: Google's already doing that. Android devices outsell iOS devices, and have been for the past several months. That doesn't mean Apple still isn't making money hand over fist, however.

My point with the PSV is that the iPad encroaches the most on the marketspace for a traditional gaming handheld, and in terms of function and design they're fairly similar. I still don't think Sony has the marketing power to make the PSV win that battle, but as with the 3DS, I'm not willing to write them off until I see how they go about marketing it during a holiday rush.

Frankly if we're going to talk about cost, a typical smartphone is already a sunk cost for a lot of people, so they already have it, and it costs them nothing extra to just visit the app store on their phone and buy a game to kill time while they're waiting in line at the bank.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: Vita to Challenge Wii-U

As far as the PSV goes, assuming Sony plays their cards right, they have an excellent opportunity to take over as the handheld console leader in the next generation. They still need a killer app like Pokemon, however.

Well, at least it's going to Launch with Uncharted. But yeah, they need something that people can just get into for hours & hours with friends.

[Cheezeman3000]

Re: Vita to Challenge Wii-U

That was the issue with the PSP... no real killer app. Plenty of 'sequels' but nothing killer that was exclusive to the console. They need something that is designed specifically to be portable, which Pokemon is definitely all about (I'd also argue Animal Crossing was designed to be portable too; played that thing to death on the DS but hardly touched it on the consoles).

[Kailea]

Re: Vita to Challenge Wii-U

just give me PSO or MH on it, and I will be happy

[Malacite]

Re: Vita to Challenge Wii-U

F that, I want more Uncharted & Infamous.

Especially since SONY just acquired SuckerPunch.

[Icemage]

Re: Vita to Challenge Wii-U

Well, at least it's going to Launch with Uncharted. But yeah, they need something that people can just get into for hours & hours with friends.

Uncharted is not a killer app for handhelds. The only IP I've seen out of Sony recently that has any potential to really break out for a handheld is Invizimals, and for that to happen it needs a lot more work and a ton more marketing than it's gotten.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: Vita to Challenge Wii-U

But it IS a killer app >.>


A new Ratchet & Clank for PSV would be neat too. And 2K has already gone on record stating they're working on a PSV exclusive Bioshock game which should be awesome.


I think it's probably a good thing that MS has largely stayed out of the handheld market, but I can't help but feel like a portable Halo with Wifi would just absolutely kick supreme ass.

Or CoD. Screw porting MW3 to Wii, get a PSV port of that shit going and you'll move systems like crazy (GTA as well). It'd be even more amazing if you could play with people on PSN through Vita, so you got people on PS3 and Vita playing together.