FF7 Remake: Should SE Rewrite it?

[Dopples]

Re: FF7 Remake: Should SE Rewrite it?

Go buy, borrow, or burn a new one. You need to finish it.

Nice @ assuming I pirate j/k

I was thinking about getting the International Version, so I'm kinda holding off, but yes, FFXII is really great, we can agree there.

[Feba]

Re: FF7 Remake: Should SE Rewrite it?

And FF12's ending sucked ass Feba.

Not really. It didn't have any major twists, but that doesn't make it bad.

If you want to complain about FFXII's plot, complain about everything from the end of Draklor Labs to the assault on the bahamut, because that made no goddamn sense.

[Malacite]

Re: FF7 Remake: Should SE Rewrite it?

To clarify, when you leave the mansion and the army tries to drag Cloud away Zack comments "I shouldn't be having this much trouble with these guys." a clear indication that the Jenova cells are messing with him (as indicated by the test results)

I'd also like to go on record saying I much prefer Zack as a main character over Cloud but it just didn't work out that way ; ;


And FF12's ending sucked ass Feba. Honestly it was a pretty major let down (to me at least) but I will say that the main villain certainly was the most believable thus far. It's a shame he became the very thing he sought out to destroy though.

[Feba]

Re: FF7 Remake: Should SE Rewrite it?

my disk got fucked over right about the time Vaan and Balthier get captured.

Go buy, borrow, or burn a new one. You need to finish it.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: FF7 Remake: Should SE Rewrite it?

I think we're saying the same thing, but I need to finish up a spreadsheet at work before I reply. I see the point you're making though.

[Malacite]

Re: FF7 Remake: Should SE Rewrite it?

Cloud was only an infantry-man, no exposure, so all he gets is a rifle. Cloud's FIRST exposure to the treatment was in the basement of Nibelhiem, with that being Zack's second treatment. Zack, theoretically, is fully compatible, so he suffered no side-effects. Cloud, it's clear what happened to him being as how he was in a daze for all of the escape.

This is completely wrong man. The "Exposure" you are talking about is Mako showers. I really don't recall it being as intensive as you say, and furthermore while they were both exposed to Mako in those tanks, the main thing going was that they were injected with Jenova's Cells.

Zack's SOLDIER training made him resistant to it and it was rejected, but he did still suffer side effects (He was weakened and IMO this is why he died to the Shin-Ra army. Had he been at full capacity he might have won. Funny though, that he beat Genesis but still lost to the army... stupid RPG laws)

Cloud on the other hand, was too weak and became corrupted by the cells which lead to the toxicosis which left him more or less a vegetable until moments before Zack left him to fight the army (and die ; ; )

[TheGrandMom]

Re: FF7 Remake: Should SE Rewrite it?

I think FFVII is fine just the way it is. The story, while dark, was slow to start but immersed you eventually and made you want to keep playing. To me, thats what an rpg is supposed to do; make me want to keep playing. As to a updated version of FFVII, I want it for purely selfish reasons. I'd like to see the updated characters I've grown to love and I'd like to play it again.

And don't even get me started on the piece of crap FFX-2! I bought the import AND the US release cause I'm a collector............and a masochist!

(With the grandkids moved in, I had to pack up the game room and I'm severely limited on system availability. >< Top it off that the PS3 is in the living room tv and thats where the grandkids are all day. Trust me trying to play a video game with a 5 and 2 yr old futzing around on your lap, asking you constant questions, and making so much noise you get a migraine is NOT a good gaming experience. /sigh Then my daughter sleeps on the couch in the evening sooooooo no game time in the living room for Gramma. )

[WishMaster3K]

Re: FF7 Remake: Should SE Rewrite it?

Cloud's strength has been consistent throughout the FF7 compilation - He wants to protect his friends. After he was bullied as a child, and after he was ridiculed for not saving Tifa, he strove to become stronger to protect people he cares about.

That's why when he didn't make it into SOLDIER, he hid his face in shame the entire mission.

[DakAttack]

Re: FF7 Remake: Should SE Rewrite it?

Cloud is quite something. Not everyday you have a (near) complete bullshitter from the very beginning as a hero. Only until closer to the end of the game we learn that.

I wondered about Cloud's source of strength. Aside from throwing Sephrioth into the pits, did the mako poisoning enhance his abilities after he snapped out of the poisoning? We learn that Cloud is infact very weak in Crisis Core.

I think Cloud sandbags a lot in FFVII, but I think when you take into account who he is, who he wanted to be, who he thought he was, and what he's become it's pretty amazing. He probably derives his strength from the same place Zack does.

Wishmaster's post illustrates pretty well why we need a remake. There's so much that needs to be explained more clearly.

[LadyKiKi]

Re: FF7 Remake: Should SE Rewrite it?

Cloud is quite something. Not everyday you have a (near) complete bullshitter from the very beginning as a hero. Only until closer to the end of the game we learn that.

I wondered about Cloud's source of strength. Aside from throwing Sephrioth into the pits, did the mako poisoning enhance his abilities after he snapped out of the poisoning? We learn that Cloud is infact very weak in Crisis Core.

[Dopples]

Re: FF7 Remake: Should SE Rewrite it?

yuri is not really a huge improvement.




Go play FFXII.

I can honestly say that I don't know enough about FFXII's villain, since my disk got fucked over right about the time Vaan and Balthier get captured. So I don't exactly take him into account (I assume you're talking about Vayne by the way)


And it wasn't "yuri-centric". It's bubbley, that's for sure, but it's not really yuri-centric.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: FF7 Remake: Should SE Rewrite it?

It would be so much easier to understand and be attached to the characters with newer technology allowing better animation and expression through the characters. I'm all for voice acting (originally I wouldn't have), ever since I have watched Advent Children and played Crisis Core. I think they've done a good job with the English voice acting so far, and think that a lot of people who hate it really are just being nit-picky.

On the contrary, I found FFVII to be very understanding. The music and the script helped set the tone of the game. For instance, the theme music in Kalm during the flashbacks sort of gave insight into the emotions of the characters (FF7 I feel was probably one of Uematsu's best compilations..).

Then again, it's likely that the most recent anyone you know has played FFVII was five years ago, and our memories tend to hype shit up.

For a character development essay, I actually wrote it on Cloud and his battles with his fragmented memory and mako poisoning and how the things in the game made sense the way they occured. Let me see if I can paraphrase it..

If I remember correctly, SOLDIER members were classified as such because they sucessfully finished the Mako treatment, making them Superhuman. There were 3 stages to the process and they all resulted in exposure to high amounts of Mako. I slightly recall seeing notes in the game about that, and I may be mistaken, but I believe it's explicitly written as being 3 stages, either somewhere in Hojo's lab, the Library or somewhere in the game. Either way, they reveal it somehow and that's what the synopsis was based on anyway.

It's theoretical that at the time of Crisis Core, Zack was only up to stage 2, but being that he was compatible with the treatment, he had no negative side affects. Essentially, I believe that he is one of the such characters that was a prime candidate to be a SOLDIER. People who didn't pass the treatment were simply discarded or not promoted.

Cloud was only an infantry-man, no exposure, so all he gets is a rifle. Cloud's FIRST exposure to the treatment was in the basement of Nibelhiem, with that being Zack's second treatment. Zack, theoretically, is fully compatible, so he suffered no side-effects. Cloud, it's clear what happened to him being as how he was in a daze for all of the escape.

It's important to look at Cloud's character progression through the game, and how it speaks testaments to the type of person he is. I'll highlight these points later.

Cloud's second exposure was at the Northern Crater, where he was lost for some time and floated through the lifestream. The Lifestream isn't concentrated Mako, like the processed version Shinra gives. On the contrary, it's the same shyt that flows through the planet. It's impressive that Cloud didn't die. So that's Cloud's second exposure to high concentrations of Mako, and, once again, he was jacked up.

Then the town is attacked, and, guess what, there goes Cloud's third exposure. With the help of Tifa, he places the fragments of his mind together, and reemerges from the ordeal a complete person, and his demeanor changes. (Slightly, but compare and contrast his resolve in the third disk with that of the first disk).

What I feel is important to note is Cloud's relationships with other characters, notably Sephiroth and Hojo. Sephiroth, or rather, Sephiroth's remnant (as we know, the real Sephiroth died 4 years prior), exhibited a certain amount of control over Cloud when he was in the area. This is seen most obviously outside the Temple of the Ancients.

Also, Hojo continuously claims that Cloud is a "failure," when it turns out that Cloud might actually be the most successful experiment to date. Another interesting aspect, regarding Sephiroth's death, was that Cloud, who was, for all intents and purposes a regular human, overpowered Sephiroth, while he was impaled and threw him into the core of the reactor. Also, for him to be one of the strongest characters throughout the game, and to lead the team all while trying to cope with a fragmented persona and a poisoned, partially completed experiment for a body..

Well, that's why I think Cloud was one of the most fleshed out main characters in SE history. I'm not sure how many other people looked that deep into his character analogy, but SE did a decent job of creating the game concepts around him.

I'm open for discussion, in fact, I might even be drastically wrong somewhere up there, but to the best of my recollection, that's more or less an explanation of Cloud.
______________________________
I left out the injection of Jenova cells. I have to re-read my essay and I'll ammend it, but that's also important. Honestly though, I think that the injection of the cells is the first step to determine compatability, but I'm unsure. Anyway.

References!

Individuals who have had prolonged exposure to Mako are identified by a glow in their eyes. The elite Shin-Ra task force, SOLDIER is made up of operatives that are genetically modified by Mako. Cloud Strife and Sephiroth are examples of people with Mako-induced ailments.

SOLDIER, the elite fighting force of Shin-Ra, are infused with Mako. However during a "Mako Shower", they are also injected with Jenova's cell. Jenova's Cell gives them strength, while the Mako infuses them with the knowledge of the Cetra.

And here is a site that pretty much reveals the entire story in regards to Cloud:
Cloud Strife: Encyclopedia II - Cloud Strife - Story

[DakAttack]

Re: FF7 Remake: Should SE Rewrite it?

I'd just hope Nomura doesn't add a whole bunch of useless stuff like Dirge of Cerberus. Then again, Crisis Core went off without a hitch and it had some newer stuff...

Dirge of Cerberus was all about Vincent. I thought people loved Vincent?

The game play wasn't even that bad.

[Feba]

Re: FF7 Remake: Should SE Rewrite it?

it was the first FF game is ages that wasn't yaoi-centric on "accident"

yuri is not really a huge improvement.

In this sense, he's probably been the most realistic villain in a FF game to date.

Go play FFXII.

[Dopples]

Re: FF7 Remake: Should SE Rewrite it?

The reason people hate FFX-2 is because it doesn't have the same pretty boy sword-toting hero stereotype for a main character, who has a dark past and hates a guy who just so happens to be threatening the world. It had humor, it had great light-hearted moments, hell, it was the first FF game is ages that wasn't yaoi-centric on "accident" (FFVII doesn't could cause Cloud x Barret is fucking gold). Mind you, the story was a tad weak, and there was no reason for the "Perfect Ending" to take place.

I will say that I loved the villain. He wasn't some mad-man psychopath with a god complex who seemed to think that destroying the world=TEH HAPPEH TIMEZ. He was a normal young man in love, who, even after death, wanted the world (to him) to accept him and Lenne. In this sense, he's probably been the most realistic villain in a FF game to date. This is even further proven by the fact that his battle is intentionally easy, just to prove that he wasn't an omni-potent anything. Just a ghost filled with rage.


But I digress, onto if a FF7 remake should be rewritten. In my opinion, no. The oddball script and outright strange cutscenes made FF7 what it is. All I think they need to tweak is the battle system.