The implications of a post scarcity world

[Firewind]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

Yes.

[Malacite]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

So, just how many people in charge over there have their heads up their asses anyway, and also how deep?

[Firewind]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

He was a 60 year old Veteran. If anyone has the right to sit back and do nothing it would be that guy. Not that he was because he was doing active charity work to raise money for other Veterans. It's pretty much how you get treated in the UK if you aren't part of the elite, no matter who you are.

There's also this too: Jobcentre tells single mum keep quiet about degree to get a job | UK | News | Daily Express

[Malacite]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

^ that's utterly disgusting...

They took his benefits because he sold some poppies for Remembrance day? Some gratitude...

[Firewind]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

Veteran loses his jobseekers benefits for selling poppies | UK | News | Daily Express

Does sum up what it's like to be a jobseeker in the UK actually. I had to lie my arse off to the DWP about my charity work so I didn't get sanctioned while volunteering to give me something to do and get me some more experience while jobhunting.

Honestly with the current Government job I have? I literally lucked into it. The application was sent off on the closing day because someone I knew there told me about it and I thought "Meh, why not?"

[Malacite]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

Calm down Mal, you're starting to foam at the mouth again.

I know, but social-economic justice is one of my biggest peeves that I'm deeply passionate about.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

You say that there's plenty of work for human beings for the next 100 years or so, and then you said that not having a job implies lacking the skills for it. I suppose strictly speaking that's not inconsistent, although it is essentially saying "there are plenty of jobs out there--just none for you, no matter how hard you try."

You're right in that there's no contradiction. Not quite sure how you managed to stick "just none for you, no matter how hard you try" into my mouth, though.

Also, so far as I know the only thing I'm "doing wrong" regarding school is doing it in the States. I don't doubt the value of an education, but clearly my education thus far has yet to land me a job, so I'm starting to wonder if it's worth thousands to learn things I can simply find out online while being in the exact same job situation I was in previously.

Did you try hard to land internship? Did you perform well as an intern? Did you take on projects that involves outside (of school) groups? Did you get good grades? If the major wasn't a job training type (e.g. engineering, computer/IT, finance, accounting, etc.), did you work on marketable skills in parallel? (e.g. Business B.A. isn't much of a selling point at the entry level, but a Business major certified as CPA? That's a different story.)

Do you have (true) stories of working on class projects that demonstrate your initiative? Planning skills? Competence? Adaptability? Good at group work? Better, yet, able to MANAGE a group? You'll need those for the interviews.

How did you use education to further your job options?

You don't have to answer; the point is that education doesn't find a job for you--you find a job for you (or your family does, in some cases).

And, it isn't all that important what you didn't do--it's what you are doing now.

* * *

Probably seem a bit condescending, and I apologize for that. But, I think it's essentially right--you can't change the past, so if you want a job soon, the question has to be what are you doing now to get a job, and possibly if you are willing to take a not-so-great-job and work your way up/out.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

Remind me how? (Not being sarcastic; I don't recall a change in position related to work or a post-work world.)

You say that there's plenty of work for human beings for the next 100 years or so, and then you said that not having a job implies lacking the skills for it. I suppose strictly speaking that's not inconsistent, although it is essentially saying "there are plenty of jobs out there--just none for you, no matter how hard you try."

Also, so far as I know the only thing I'm "doing wrong" regarding school is doing it in the States. I don't doubt the value of an education, but clearly my education thus far has yet to land me a job, so I'm starting to wonder if it's worth thousands to learn things I can simply find out online while being in the exact same job situation I was in previously.

Full disclosure: this is an . . . emotionally upsetting subject for me, to say the least.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

Taken at face value, I don't see anything wrong with Itazura's post, but it fails to take into account that you may not have the means to become more fit. To be able to get a new skill set you need to be able to afford that education with the money you're not earning from the job you haven't been able to get. And if you're already knee-deep in debt from student loans, I guess you'll have to go for waist-deep.

Well, my purpose is to state things as they are. This condition isn't 'fair', and probably isn't 'right', but skills (and connections--should have emphasized that part sooner) get you decent paychecks. (Not counting the tips of the corporate pyramids; those have their own dynamics.)

How the condition for the aggregate can be improved is quite a bigger and thornier of a subject than I can tackle.

I do recognize most people in most part of the world do not have the means to purchase additional education useful for the purpose of becoming more 'fit' in the economy.

Not that buying education is the only means to improve one's economic standing or even building new skill sets, mind you. The fundamental skill is learning, not taking classes, not being spoon fed.

[cidbahamut]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

Calm down Mal, you're starting to foam at the mouth again.

[Malacite]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

^ exactly the point I'm driving at. The minimum wage needs to be a living wage, so that no one has to live in abject poverty even if they're working multiple jobs, certainly not in a Country as wealthy as the U.S.


You want more? Earn it. But there should be a baseline that people can actually live off of instead of just surviving (doing so also means more money put back into the economy and less taken out of it in the form of govt. subsidies/supplimental programs, something the Right seems to either ignore or keep folks ignorant of deliberately.)


This also all ties into the private prison business and the insane incarceration rates - what better way to deal with a "surplus of workers" than to just lock 'em up until they die/hope society forgets about them? And if you can make a fast buck doing it (at the tax payer's expense) then Hell, why not right?

@___@

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

Now that you're changing your song and dance,

Remind me how? (Not being sarcastic; I don't recall a change in position related to work or a post-work world.)

I have another refrain for you: how does one get the skills when they can never land a job? Do elucidate this for me and I'll be on it first thing in the morning.

There's no sure fire answer for this. At best, I can only give the you examples that worked for me--as in landed me a job I wanted.

My current job:
I didn't have the skill set the employer wanted. (Not even close, really.) What I did know, was that it was about "automation" and I knew one (of many) computer language in use by the shop. But, I didn't know that language.

So, I spent the week before the interview learning the language and constructing a program that simulated a very, very simple 'robot'. The idea was to show that 1) I understand a little basic control theory, 2) I can code, 3) I can learn.

It didn't get me the job.

BUT, it made a good impression, so when the company got busy a couple months later, they called and offered me a contractor position. A few month of hard work later, a full-time position.


A previous job:
An entry-level contractor position doing what most people would consider 'boring' work. I took it, and worked as hard and as smart as I could.

What happened next wasn't not quite going from being a janitor to a CEO, but I took a "you're dispensable" button pusher job and moved over to an analyst position where I was helping to solve problem with tens of millions of dollars worth of business deals at stake.

(Side note: I'm already going to school and so far it's doing nothing for me but landing me thousands in the red.)

You're doing it wrong. (And I did it wrong.) From what I can tell, much of the network that's landing my contractor coworker his big paychecks he build during school. And, given that the two of us use statistics and trigonometry on a daily basis (with signal processing tossed today), I'd say even 'school' skills are pretty useful to us.

[Armando]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

Taken at face value, I don't see anything wrong with Itazura's post, but it fails to take into account that you may not have the means to become more fit. To be able to get a new skill set you need to be able to afford that education with the money you're not earning from the job you haven't been able to get. And if you're already knee-deep in debt from student loans, I guess you'll have to go for waist-deep.

I'd be way more OK with Mezlo's just-world hypothesis if you could pay for a good college education working part time for minimum wage. Or, hell, if minimum wage actually got you a decent standard of living at all.

[DakAttack]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

Individual circumstances aside, as a group, those who cannot cope with structural changes in society over time are simply less ... fit.

This is you.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

If you can't land a job, you don't have the right skills. May or may not be your fault, but it's your responsibility, never the less.

Now that you're changing your song and dance, I have another refrain for you: how does one get the skills when they can never land a job? Do elucidate this for me and I'll be on it first thing in the morning.

(Side note: I'm already going to school and so far it's doing nothing for me but landing me thousands in the red.)