The implications of a post scarcity world

[Malacite]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

Thanks a lot, Obama.

You people laugh, except Canada's economy is very heavily tied to the U.S.

That's why even though we never technically went into a recession like you guys did after the 2008 crash, we still got hit hard as a side effect of your fuck up and are still paying the price for it. Basically, until things get better in the U.S., they aren't going to improve much here either. Especially not with Harper cutting back on all the govt jobs. I'm fucked for post-secondary schooling, because of shit that happened back in highschool I'm really not comfortable discussing outside of family and close friends that pretty much left me emotionally and psychologically crippled for a long time and my grades suffered horribly as a result of that. On top of that, my folks never put aside ANY money for it, so I've been forced to make due with what I've been able to save up on my own.

I had a pretty cushy govt job a while back, though the work kinda irked me a little in terms of ethics and when my contract ran out I wasn't entirely upset, though I am to this date still very annoyed that I haven't gotten any further jobs despite regularly being updated via e-mail telling me I'm still in the top-billing for a number of positions. At this point, while I'm trying to pursue this whole streaming/youtube thing (because it's increasingly looking like one of the few real options I've got left and it's something I'd genuinely love to do) I'd be grateful for anything that pays decently and challenges me on some level - I'll take a shitty retail job, but I hate it with a passion because of how monotonous and mind-numbing it is (outright soul crushing too at times with how assholish the people around where I live are. Seriously fuck this town...)

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

Right, most of the time it's the victim's fault.

Individual circumstances aside, as a group, those who cannot cope with structural changes in society over time are simply less ... fit.

It's a somewhat cruel observation, but people with (currently) desirable skills have no trouble finding a paycheck. The contractor I work with likely earns at least 4 times as much as I do, and he can probably walk away tomorrow and land a new gig within two days. Actually, he already have multiple stuff lined up; he's consulting for at least one other firm at the moment (advisory capacity only--for now).

If you can't land a job, you don't have the right skills. May or may not be your fault, but it's your responsibility, never the less.

[Firewind]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

I loled

[Caspian]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

^ going on over a year now job searching, busting my ass and getting nothing. Really starting to wear me down psychologically...

Thanks a lot, Obama.

[Mezlo]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

Right, most of the time it's the victim's fault.

"victim," lol...

- - - Updated - - -

Then you have the people who are all "I'm looking but nothing is there!" which is Lazy Moron for "I'm going to wait until the one job I want appears and apply for only that".

this

[DakAttack]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

not always, but most of the time...

Right, most of the time it's the victim's fault.

[Firewind]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

I can't speak for Canada but in the UK it kind of is. I had one conversation with a rather stupid girl a few weeks ago (well I say a few weeks ago, it was at some point in the summer when I was still in the middle of a job hunt myself) who was whining about immigrants in true "DEY TURK UR JERBS!" style.

It went something like this:

Her: But they give all the jobs to them. You know, the stuff I'm too good for.
Me: They are the only ones applying for them you know. I know, I've been to an interview for a couple of crappy cleaning jobs and was the only one there that couldn't speak Polish.
Her: But I want a job, but they're giving all those jobs to them.
Me: Have you actually applied for one of those? I know it's kind of a sucky job but a job's a job. I've applied for plenty of things like that because at least it's something while you look for something else.
Her: I'm not cleaning someone's bathroom! I have ethics!
Me: *facepalm*

Then you have the people who are all "I'm looking but nothing is there!" which is Lazy Moron for "I'm going to wait until the one job I want appears and apply for only that".

The thing that pisses me off is that it causes the people who genuinely are desperately hunting for a job, any job, to be tarred with the same brush as all of the idiotic white trash.

The UK is also plagued with the issue of people being too lazy to actually get the qualifications at school, because they expect to be able to just drop into some unskilled job after leaving school. One reason why immigrants get the good jobs in the UK is that they are actually qualified for the jobs they apply for. Who would you rather hire? Wayne who dropped out of school at 16 and will show up at 11 stinking of weed and vodka and barely speaks English in an understandable form, or Vladamir, who will turn up an hour early, dressed smartly and is qualified, and speaks better English than most of the people in the UK?

There's plenty of other factors for sure, stupid Government Policy, lazy parenting, lack of investment in deprived areas, failure of the education system, good old fashioned greed. However, dismissing laziness entirely is nothing short of ignorance.

To get back on topic to the podcast, yes laziness IS still relevant. The problem is when you get to the idea of people being free to pursue whatever creative desires they want: they're not going to be able to afford to do that without some kind on income in the current economic and monetary system that we currently have in place. Plus many people aren't going to have the resources to consume that if they aren't able to purchase the media and media players in order to consume that created media. Without a complete and utter change in the whole concept of currency, it is unlikely that this would create some kind of Utopia.

What it would create is the few people with the money and resources being the only one able to consume/watch/read/whatever because those are the only ones able to afford to. Everyone else would just be stuck in an impoverished underclass.

Now how does this relate to laziness? People will always be lazy. Even if this does produce a Utopia, something that is highly unlikely with the current social and economical norms, you will always get groups of people that expect something for nothing, or will exploit the system to gain something for nothing. Plus there is the fact that a lot of people simply aren't that creative.

But back to the concept of the Utopia, we would essentially have to change everything, how we think about the value of something. How we see the concept of currency, how we define concepts like "work", "laziness", "wealth" and "leisure", what we would actually define as a job, and how we would look at the people who are actually working to keep things running.

But seriously, blaming a lack of jobs purely on machines replacing the people doing them and no other reason be is political, social, economic, cultural or any combination of those? Come on that's just ignorant.

[Mezlo]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

Then you would know being unemployed is not always a matter of being lazy.

not always, but most of the time...

[Malacite]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

^ going on over a year now job searching, busting my ass and getting nothing. Really starting to wear me down psychologically...

The simple fact is there are more people looking for jobs than are jobs available, and a lot of those jobs are kinda just there when machines could be doing them more cheaply and efficiently.

[DakAttack]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

I'm familiar and have watched the podcast.

Then you would know being unemployed is not always a matter of being lazy.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

head meet sand?

Just to clarify my perspective: I work in the automation industry. My job is to program robots to keep little Asian ladies from toiling all day to put together little parts for electronic gadgets we all love.

The "Push a button to satisfy our wants" idea isn't a daydream thing for me; it pays for my iced coffee addiction and FFXIV subscription. AND, from this view, yes, there are plenty of work for human beings in the foreseeable future.

And I know they weren't perpetuating it, but I seriously take offense to the whole notion that my (our?) generation is a bunch of slackers, and that there's something wrong with not wanting to do a menial, low-paying shit job that doesn't engage me in any meaningful way.

Not a knock against you personally, but that people generally tend to focus on "working" instead of "problem solving" is probably an issue. Just an observation.

* * *

No, I didn't bother with the podcast--couldn't get past the eye-rolling factor with the concept. Nothing I've read so far in this thread makes it seem worthwhile, either. Honestly, I think instead of getting excited about this "end game" of labor-free world, all of us would be better off looking for problems to solve--and solve them.

[Mezlo]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

If you are unfamiliar with this issue, you should refrain from commenting.

I'm familiar and have watched the podcast.

[DakAttack]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

Do you currently have a job?

/pointproven

If you are unfamiliar with this issue, you should refrain from commenting.

[Mezlo]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

I seriously take offense to the whole notion that my (our?) generation is a bunch of slackers

Do you currently have a job?

/pointproven

[Malacite]

Re: The implications of a post scarcity world

head meet sand?

And I know they weren't perpetuating it, but I seriously take offense to the whole notion that my (our?) generation is a bunch of slackers, and that there's something wrong with not wanting to do a menial, low-paying shit job that doesn't engage me in any meaningful way. It's a very tiny percentage of us out there who really are just so spoiled and/or lazy that they don't want to work at all; I think it's safe to say (and CNN actually ran a good special on this a while back confirming as much) that we're more interested in having a job we like with flexible hours. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that someone who genuinely likes what they do will naturally care more about said job and perform better as opposed to the current situation where you have a bunch of people working their asses off (in some cases 2 or even 3 jobs) barely getting by and quite probably being treated like shit all the while.


We have all this amazing technology right now, but it's not being used intelligently at all. Moreover, I get the idea of having work as part of your purpose in life - that's totally understandable and rightly important to people. But why can't this be done in a sensible way? Again, the example of the tanks (which btw, is something Boehner has pushed through over and over as that's his district that makes those tanks) rather than wasting all those resources (because again, it's not like all these metals and things are just infinitely abundant - there's a reason China, Russia and others are racing to secure resources across the globe) on more tanks that the army neither wants nor needs, how about infrastructure and building shit the country actually needs?

Nah, that would be too sensible.