Maybe alcoholic beverages are unhealthy?

[DakAttack]

Re: Maybe alcoholic beverages are unhealthy?

I think its bullshit that smoking gets targeted for more taxes all, but a drug like alcohol that can impair your driving, maybe drive you to beat your wife or kids or rob you of motivation should be taxed more. Both habits seem to spawn their fair share of litterbugs at any rate, but the psychological consequences of drinking are a bit more widely varied. People who haven't had a smoke for a bit just get edgy.

Both can result in the death in people who take part in niether.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Maybe alcoholic beverages are unhealthy?

Both can result in the death in people who take part in niether.

So can driving an automobile. What's your point?

[Ziero]

Re: Maybe alcoholic beverages are unhealthy?

There are also studies that show drivers who have been awake for over 17 hours perform as poorly as drivers who are over the legal alcohol limit, and that as many as 60% of accidents involve sleep deprivation. That doesn't make it ok for the government to monitor your sleeping habits and mandate limits on daily consciousness. What we're talking about in either case is a failure on the part of individuals to stay within healthy boundaries when going about their public life, not some moral or ethical fault on the part of alcohol, marijuana or being awake.

And they can be arrested for wreckless endangerment by doing that. If you're behind the wheel of a car and you start drifting back and forth, a cop will pull you over. Regardless of whether you're drunk, high, tired or just being a jerk. It's absolutely not a moral thing, it's just that external chemical stimulants are much easier to regulate then a person's sleep cycle. We don't have the right to drink and smoke, it's a privilege, but we do have the right to get a good night's sleep. So one can be regulated while the other can't.

That said, since they all pretty much do the same thing (impair judgment and reaction time) they're all equally dangerous and can all lead to legal recourse if the action results in a criminal act.

Weed will most likely be legalized, because, just like alcohol, the government just can't stop people from using it. I just hope it doesn't become another way for people to ruin their lives.

Again, it's easier to "just say no" then it is to be an indian giver. The whole "they could tax it!" line is completely BS as well since what self respecting pot-head would buy Government Weed.

I kind of call BS on that

As pointed out, you've more or less already screwed up your body and brain, but the human body can actually be pretty resilient. The fact that it "helps you focus" is a result of you already impairing yourself from overuse. The same thing happens from dependency on any substance that's really not all that good for you. Whether it be smoking pot, smoking cigs, drinking alcohol or hell drinking Coffee. People who drink tons of coffee end up needing more coffee just to function. But people who can manage to give it up and let the body get back to it's natural balance find they don't need it anymore. It's the same thing with just about every "drug" out there.

Pot doesn't "help people focus" the first time they use it, it's something they have to get "adjusted" too...because really the brain is trying to accommodate for all the extra crap being thrown at it.

Now I'm not much for any of that stuff myself (I do have my own vices though) but I'm not one who will go around looking down on those who are. However, I personally do not see any positive results of doing something like legalizing Pot. It's bad enough alcohol is legal, the last thing we need as a society is more chemical influences working their way into everything.

[Neverslip]

Re: Maybe alcoholic beverages are unhealthy?

I personally do not see any positive results of doing something like legalizing Pot. It's bad enough alcohol is legal, the last thing we need as a society is more chemical influences working their way into everything.

Yes... the temperence movement and prohibition did so much good.... if you're a criminal. There is so many positives legalilzation would achieve. Either you've never read anything on it or did read about it but choose not to believe it. And hell... everything is chemical these days. The food we eat is not the food I grew up on even as recently as the 80's.

My opinion is that as long as someone (hopefully an adult) is not endangering the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for others, people and the government need to GTFO and mind their own F'n business when it comes to my body.

[DakAttack]

Re: Maybe alcoholic beverages are unhealthy?

Again, it's easier to "just say no" then it is to be an indian giver. The whole "they could tax it!" line is completely BS as well since what self respecting pot-head would buy Government Weed.


Now I'm not much for any of that stuff myself (I do have my own vices though) but I'm not one who will go around looking down on those who are. However, I personally do not see any positive results of doing something like legalizing Pot. It's bad enough alcohol is legal, the last thing we need as a society is more chemical influences working their way into everything.

I agree that they should outright ban mind-altering chemicals, but that's not possible. At least, they could regulate it in a way that makes it harder to obtain in large quantities and makes the associated punishments more severe. If they do legalize weed, I believe they'll tax the people who sell it, who will in turn increase their prices. It'll still be cheaper than it is now.

[Neverslip]

Re: Maybe alcoholic beverages are unhealthy?

I agree that they should outright ban mind-altering chemicals,

I couldn't disagree more. Maybe they should start with sugar?

[DieselBoy09]

Re: Maybe alcoholic beverages are unhealthy?

Beer can actually be surprisingly healthy.

What? How so? Maybe if you supplement the hell out of it but then there will be almost no beer. There is some research that shows it is of some aid to your cardiovascular system and the prevention of dementia but both of those are with low intake of alcohol in general, and low as in maybe 1-4 drinks a week. In fact, exceeding that shows to have quite the opposite effect with cardiovascular disease. It has also been linked to breast cancer in women. And with all of this it was all correlation, not causation.

Its like all that talk about red wine being great for your heart. Yeah, it has some things in it that are good for your heart, but its even better to get it from nonalcoholic grape juice.

[Ziero]

Re: Maybe alcoholic beverages are unhealthy?

Yes... the temperence movement and prohibition did so much good.... if you're a criminal. There is so many positives legalilzation would achieve. Either you've never read anything on it or did read about it but choose not to believe it. And hell... everything is chemical these days. The food we eat is not the food I grew up on even as recently as the 80's.

My opinion is that as long as someone (hopefully an adult) is not endangering the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for others, people and the government need to GTFO and mind their own F'n business when it comes to my body

Because I haven't already said two times now that it's easier to prevent then it is to remove. Temperance and Prohibition was taking away something already deeply ingrained into our very society as a whole, an act that despite "positive interests" could only have led to absolute tragedy...which it did. But preventing a substance that's already illegal from becoming legal...it's far more manageable of an issue as a whole. Yes, chemicals are in everything nowadays...but that's a bad thing.

The big issue is, most people who use won't be "adult" about using it and the government will have to heavily regulate it. So it won't be as open and free and lovey dovey everyone is mellow and happy! as people wish to believe. There will still be restrictions on it, still be arrests made over it, still be crimes centered around it and will still be trafficked illegally by those who already have their hands in the cookie jar. Maybe make laws more lenient to the use of Marijuana (as it can be a pretty harmless drug) but outright legalization of it is something that shouldn't happen in the US.

I agree that they should outright ban mind-altering chemicals, but that's not possible.

I'm in completely agreement.

I couldn't disagree more. Maybe they should start with sugar?

The body needs sugars to function so it's not like Sugar itself is a foreign mind altering chemical that slowly destroys the brain. That said, our society could certainly do with less of it. Soda is just as unhealthy to consume as many of these other chemicals, however soda doesn't lead to crime, violence or unintentional deaths etc etc etc.

[Armando]

Re: Maybe alcoholic beverages are unhealthy?

So can driving an automobile. What's your point?

One's very useful and practically necessary. The other doesn't do anything truly useful for the person, and is *always* obnoxious and detrimental to others.

As for smoking getting targeted for more taxes, I guess there's the consideration that smoking is always bad; drinking is only bad when done irresponsibly. From that standpoint, it makes sense to be harsher on the activity that's lose/lose to discourage people from doing it. If they go apeshit on alcohol taxes, they also punish responsible drinkers.

[Malacite]

Re: Maybe alcoholic beverages are unhealthy?

And here's the major kicker, just while we're at it;

Tobacco is far, far worse than Marijuana, yet the latter is the one that's illegal. They're both narcotics and will mess you up in the long run, but when have you ever seen a person who was high violent and/or unruly?

Just don't operate any vehicles/firearms. (And I don't smoke anything for the record if anyone's wondering)

[Neverslip]

Re: Maybe alcoholic beverages are unhealthy?

Again... I say keep your "values" outta my body. That statement will cover so many of the BS arguments any of you have for me. Course some people believe suppressing other's freedoms is their right.

[Feba]

Re: Maybe alcoholic beverages are unhealthy?

Here's some fun feba trivia: My father is an alcoholic, he beat my mom and hit me on multiple occasions; he drove drunk with me in the car, terrified, at least once; and he spent all his money buying booze to the point where he couldn't pay jack for child support. Feba loathes the taste of alcohol, and has never used any drug other than those that are prescribed (and he did not seek a prescription for fun), or available over the counter.

He still thinks that banning what chemicals someone is allowed to put into their body is an asinine effort motivated primarily by a mix of stupidity and established industries trying to maintain their ground.

[Malacite]

Re: Maybe alcoholic beverages are unhealthy?

Mhmm.

Guns don't kill people; other people do. Also, "You can't fix stupid."

[Etra]

Re: Maybe alcoholic beverages are unhealthy?

So can driving an automobile. What's your point?

This is mostly wrong in the context I assume you were referring to.

He said, "Both can result in the death of those who take part in neither." In your quote, you're saying that both would be drivers of cars.

I'm tired, so I'm not sure if what I'm saying is getting across. He said "neither," you're saying "both." A pedestrian cannot kill someone in a car by walking into them over and over.

Here's some fun feba trivia: My father is an alcoholic, he beat my mom and hit me on multiple occasions; he drove drunk with me in the car, terrified, at least once; and he spent all his money buying booze to the point where he couldn't pay jack for child support. Feba loathes the taste of alcohol, and has never used any drug other than those that are prescribed (and he did not seek a prescription for fun), or available over the counter.

He still thinks that banning what chemicals someone is allowed to put into their body is an asinine effort motivated primarily by a mix of stupidity and established industries trying to maintain their ground.

Hello, soul sister.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Maybe alcoholic beverages are unhealthy?

Both can result in the death in people who take part in niether.

Grats on the "No shit, Sherlock" statement of the week.

Here's another fun fact. People who live healthy lives and have smug, superior attitudes about their lifestyle still die every day while careless people who abuse their bodies can still live to a ripe old age. Eventually kids will be exposed to unhealthy lifestyles and behaviors.

Ultimately, you can only take precautions for yourself, but you can't control every factor and be certain those precautions will save you every time.

If you're going to punish one industry and not the other for the social threats it presents, though, you're being a hypocrite. Why set out to control people smoking and not control how people consume alcohol. I'm not saying ban either - because we know how that worked out - but to tax one into the floor and not the other is a bit ridiculous to me.

Tax both or leave both alone, I don't care, but there should be some consistency between the two. If the intended design of taxing cigarettes is to discourage smoking, then the same can be applied to alcohol. In reality, I know its just another means to game the system for more tax dollars, but if they're going to play the line about discouraging behaviors, then they can at least be consistent about it.