Yet another **** storm for the Tea Party

[ShepardG]

Re: Yet another **** storm for the Tea Party

It may not have come out that way, but I actually agree with almost everything you are saying.

Yeah, I kinda felt like maybe you were ^^ And I definetly see your points. I don't know if we'll ever be 'wired' that way, to be intrensically "good" to one another, I just hope that one day we are. /shrug. It saddens me a bit that i'll never see it, but then I see signs of mankinds progression and deep down I feel like it'll happen one day. I mean, I see a shit ton of the complete opposites (people treating others like shit,etc.) but I think that's just because currently mankind is more facinated with worrying about the things that are wrong with themselves. Hopefully a by product of the process of evolution to better our species. One day someone will see ^^

The biggest issue is we're talking about the whole world.

Yeah, I'm still praying for a common enemy to focus on, like aliens or some underground mole people. Unite the world long enough (20-30) years for a new generation to see the prejudice and stupidity of their fore fathers and realize how re-god-damn-diculus it is.

[Malacite]

Re: Yet another **** storm for the Tea Party

You seriously didn't take the Atheism/Time Travel episodes at face value did you? Yes there's a lot of truth in South Park but you still have to take it with a grain of salt.

And yeah I agree with BBQ about it being offensive either way - there's absolutely no way you won't piss off a lot of people with this issue. I happen to side with the Tea Party sentiment on the matter, however I'm disgusted in the manner this guy conducted himself in.

While I'm at it, and again much as I generally dislike the Tea Party, I have to say lay off Rand Paul already with the civil rights thing. At no point did he say he's for private institutions being allowed to discriminate! Yet that's what everyone in the media is implying. What he said was he's against the Government coming in and telling you exactly what to do.

The example he cited was a wheel chair employee and the current government mandates would require a "$100,000 elevator" or something like that where as Rand Paul believes said business establishment should have the option to simply offer the employee an office on the 1st floor - much more reasonable if you think about it. The employee would be still be accommodated by the business, but they wouldn't have to go out of their way to do so.

I'm not saying this because I particularly like the guy btw, just for the sake of fairness. Things get distorted or misinterpreted in media far too often (I'm looking at you Glen Beck, please DIAF already) and that (and a touch of racism for the crazies) is what leads to people carrying offensive and/or just outright wrong messages on signs etc @ rallies and generally making stupid claims, largely with regards to Obama.

Not that some of these people don't bring it upon themselves though, as Jon Stewart has shown time and again

[cidbahamut]

Re: Yet another **** storm for the Tea Party

You all have way too much faith in humanity.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Yet another **** storm for the Tea Party

The example he cited was a wheel chair employee and the current government mandates would require a "$100,000 elevator" or something like that where as Rand Paul believes said business establishment should have the option to simply offer the employee an office on the 1st floor - much more reasonable if you think about it. The employee would be still be accommodated by the business, but they wouldn't have to go out of their way to do so.

My husband is handicapped. He's not permanently in a wheelchair yet but it's coming one day. For now, he uses a chair when we go to an event with excessive walking, i.e. state fair, or when he gets sores on his stump that need to heal. (Inserting HUGE bitch at the VA for not thinking he needs a new wheelchair when the one we have is falling apart!)

Now with that said, let me cry a river for businesses that need to update their buildings for the handicapped...and yes that is sarcasm. Put the guy in an office on the first floor so he's isolated and made to feel like he's even more handicapped. Good solution. So when there is a meeting on another floor, he can't attend. So when he needs to discuss something with someone in person, he has to request they come to him and then sit waiting. Ya, good idea....not. How about making the place wheelchair accessible so that this employee and any subsequent handicapped employees will be able to participate without restrictions, like everyone else.

---------- Post added at 02:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 PM ----------

You all have way too much faith in humanity.

If we have no faith in humanity, then we are not much better than animals.

[ShepardG]

Re: Yet another **** storm for the Tea Party

yeah, I was actually gonna say, thanks for this topic, not because of the actual topic but because of the conversation it spawned.

I haven't followed what's up with the tea party, or with politics in a long time. It's just silly. Our political process is in shambles, and Nobody, myself included knows how to fix it. And when someone proposes an idea, there are 10 people who opose it. Checks and balances is where it's at, of this i have no doubt, but they have let that concept trickle down to far in the chain.

The solution has become the problem and it's not about doing what's right for the majority of the people anymore, it's about fighting for a job, who's job is to fight to keep their job. It should never be about that. Congress, Politicians, and the president himself, IMHO should be give 2 year controlled tours, and never be allowed to serve again. You get elected by your fellow americans, it comes with the caveat that you'll be out of office in 2 years and someone else (who has preferably followed your choices) now get's 2 years, 2 very quick short years, to change the things that the people want changed. There is no "re-ellection", no incentive to even run for office, except the only incentive that should ever matter.

The improvement of the people who's live's your decision will affect. That's the only influence you should have. Hell make it 1 year, that way Private interest groups have less of an idea who's going to be ellected.

The argument of "that much voting by the american people isn't very feisable" is crap. It takes one hour to go vote. 1 hour out of the year. hell, last i checked we invented the internet. People can vote for who the best fucking celebrity dancer is using their cellphones.

The people in office currently would never push for such major changes when they can do subtle ones, that make it seem like their focused on america, but in reality change no-ones daily life. Anyway these are all just Personal opinions and unless some some crazy decisions are being made based on a video game playing, pornography loving, married, bomb technician's psudeo-anynomous internet rant, the have no real bearing on anything relavent to this thread, nor this topic, other than this:

in 2000 years the tea baggers won't be talked about, except for a few informative articles floating around what will then be the futures version of wikipedia.....

It will most likely be called "Shepedia" and people will access it through their contact lense.

---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 PM ----------

You all have way too much faith in humanity.

And you don't? You think we'll all be dead (nuclear destruction, meteorite, comet, sun runs out of energy etc.) I mean, what keeps you getting out of bed in the morning? You living just to live?

I'm not being snide, I'm genuinely curious.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Yet another **** storm for the Tea Party

Abolish all organized religions, It's damn near time humanity stopped limping around with the crutch that is organized religion. Don't know what happens after were done on this earth, and probably not ever going to know until it's time to leave. Yet people are so scared about the unknown that they let it affect the things they do know.

Abolish religion and you abolish music, art, games, history and more. We'll live in bland, white rooms with no decoration if there was even a motive to stop living in caves at all. There would be no incentive to make movies or talk of human drama. There would be no basis for law or social structure, much less diverse, coherent forms of language to use. We'd have no basis for the scientific method, either.

You wouldn't even have a simple deck of cards to play with. Those silly pagans and their fortune telling are responsible for Las Vegas, you know.

Hell, research the beastiaries you find in Final Fantasy or another RPG sometime. You'll find there's a basis for damn near everything. Thank religions or just plain old superstition for the imaginative creatures you see there.

Basically, everything you now know would be gone without religion.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Yet another **** storm for the Tea Party

You all have way too much faith in humanity.

And you don't? You think we'll all be dead (nuclear destruction, meteorite, comet, sun runs out of energy etc.) I mean, what keeps you getting out of bed in the morning? You living just to live?

I'm not being snide, I'm genuinely curious.

No, I really don't have any faith in humanity as a whole. We thrive on exclusion, hatred and hedonism.

Living just to live sounds about right. It's just a habitual motion to go through between indulgences.

I'm not fooling anyone. I'm not going to accomplish anything grand or significant with my life, all I'm going to do is slog through day to day trying to make ends meet so I can occasionally kick back and play some video games in an attempt to forget about my mundane troubles.

[Ufgt]

Re: Yet another **** storm for the Tea Party

I'm not fooling anyone. I'm not going to accomplish anything grand or significant with my life, all I'm going to do is slog through day to day trying to make ends meet so I can occasionally kick back and play some video games in an attempt to forget about my mundane troubles.

It's this type of attitude that prevents change from happening. I genuinely believe that if you change how you live your life and influence others around you to live with more purpose, the world will become a better place to be. You many not accomplish anything that the world views as grand, but making those around you happy and making yourself happy should be a goal that everyone strives for. All movements start at the grassroots level and this is no exception.

Gandhi had it right: "You must be the change you want to see in the world."

Cynism begets cynism.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Yet another **** storm for the Tea Party

It's this type of attitude that prevents change from happening. I genuinely believe that if you change how you live your life and influence others around you to live with more purpose, the world will become a better place to be. You many not accomplish anything that the world views as grand, but making those around you happy and making yourself happy should be a goal that everyone strives for. All movements start at the grassroots level and this is no exception.

Yes, I believe we already covered humanity's hedonistic nature.

There's nothing wrong with making the effort to be pleasant to those around you, but as a whole humanity is just not wired for sitting around and singing kumbaya around a global campfire. We develop a sense of community through shared animosity and hardship. Fastest way to get people to band together is to put them in a shitty situation together and have a clearly labeled antagonist. Combine this with the human ego and you have the recipe for the countless years of war and bloodshed we've seen play out for millenia. This is self destructive behavior.

The base cause is human nature. The only way to change human nature is to achieve a unified global society and enforce a change in societal behavior. The only way you get to that unified global society is through global conflict, because people in power do not let go of power for kittens, bunnies, rainbows and ideals. If you want humanity to all get along you must first initiate World War III and have one undisputed victor who forcibly homogenizes human society. No one wants to endure that, and yet people continue to preach their flower ideals and hold hands and sing songs about love and peace. It doesn't work that way. People are stubborn and will not change unless you force them to.

Ghandi is awesome. The man had an unbreakable resolve and I still respect him for that. However he is the exception and not the rule. You'll also notice his movement relied on uniting people who suffered at the hands of a clearly defined antagonist. The goal was to oust the British, not to get along with them. His methods may have been peaceful but the underlying principle remained the same: conflict and unifying against an enemy.

People are stubborn.
People are scum.
This will not change.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Yet another **** storm for the Tea Party

No, I really don't have any faith in humanity as a whole. We thrive on exclusion, hatred and hedonism.

Living just to live sounds about right. It's just a habitual motion to go through between indulgences.

I'm not fooling anyone. I'm not going to accomplish anything grand or significant with my life, all I'm going to do is slog through day to day trying to make ends meet so I can occasionally kick back and play some video games in an attempt to forget about my mundane troubles.

Well Cid, I was told over and over that I was going to be a "chip off the old block" because I grew up in a less than desirable environment. My parents are extremely racist abusive alcoholics. So according to the influences of my environment, I should have some of their habits or outlooks....but I don't. I grew up hoping and praying that I wouldn't be anything like them but the odds were against me. But I kept the faith and now I can say that I am not an alcoholic (though I did marry one), I do not consider myself to have a racially biased outlook, and I was not an abusive parent. If I had just given up and just slogged through every day, I'd probably be a carbon copy of my mother....and that is a very sobering thought.

You do not have to have a grand life or do anything significant to make a difference. Just setting yourself on a path and sticking to it could end up causing a ripple through someones life that could cause something significant to happen. By not being an alcoholic, my children were properly cared for and given the benefit of a brighter outlook for their future. By not abusing them, I have broken the cycle of abuse that has been carried through my family for generations. It also helps with their self esteem and gives them a better chance at success in their life. And by teaching my kids that we are all human beings that bleed the same color and all live on the same blue ball, I hope I've influenced them to make a difference with the different people that will fill their lives. I do have a gorgeous bi-racial grandson so on some level I think it's worked. lol

[Malacite]

Re: Yet another **** storm for the Tea Party

Now with that said, let me cry a river for businesses that need to update their buildings for the handicapped...and yes that is sarcasm. Put the guy in an office on the first floor so he's isolated and made to feel like he's even more handicapped. Good solution. So when there is a meeting on another floor, he can't attend. So when he needs to discuss something with someone in person, he has to request they come to him and then sit waiting. Ya, good idea....not. How about making the place wheelchair accessible so that this employee and any subsequent handicapped employees will be able to participate without restrictions, like everyone else.

Fair enough, but what if it's just a common desk job? Who's to say you'll be isolated on the 1st floor anyway? You make a fair point about getting around the rest of the building and I don't disagree. I just think that Rand Paul is right about it being a matter of discretion for the business and on a case-by-case basis. The majority of employers in the U.S. are small businesses after all, and sometimes these accommodation expenditures can really hurt them. We need to move away from this mentality of not caring about big costs because a 3rd party is picking up the tab, at least in some cases.


Case in point look at the Health Care system - CNN ran a special on all the waste and overcharging in that system and it's just sickening. In fact, an insurance company won't even look at the bill if it's under $10,000! One woman was charged for 40-some sutures, even though the doctor only used 1. And guess who ends up footing the bills in the end for all this gross overspending? You guessed it.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Yet another **** storm for the Tea Party

Case in point look at the Health Care system - CNN ran a special on all the waste and overcharging in that system and it's just sickening. In fact, an insurance company won't even look at the bill if it's under $10,000!

Well someone needs to tell my insurance company this! I am constantly receiving calls from them harassing me about the medications I take and whether the doses I take are even worth it. Yes, they don't want to pay for them so they have THEIR NURSE call to tell me that at the dose I take there is little, if any, benefit to me so I should discuss weaning myself off it with my doctor. It REALLY pisses me off, they are not my doctor and not every person reacts the same to medications. Btw, I use one of the larger providers too; Blue Cross Blue Shield. So if they are scrutinizing bills this closely, maybe CNN should do a piece on them....tell them to interview me too! I have some good info on those assholes.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Yet another **** storm for the Tea Party

The base cause is human nature. The only way to change human nature is to achieve a unified global society and enforce a change in societal behavior. The only way you get to that unified global society is through global conflict, because people in power do not let go of power for kittens, bunnies, rainbows and ideals. If you want humanity to all get along you must first initiate World War III and have one undisputed victor who forcibly homogenizes human society. No one wants to endure that, and yet people continue to preach their flower ideals and hold hands and sing songs about love and peace. It doesn't work that way. People are stubborn and will not change unless you force them to.

And you think that changes anything? Its just another breed of corruption, far worse than what we have now I might add.

[Malacite]

Re: Yet another **** storm for the Tea Party

The thing with the $10,000 issue is, when it's sent to the Insurance Company, they simply just OK it, without even checking for the egregious mark ups done by the Hospitals to cover their own operating costs. That then translated into higher premiums for consumers, so while it may seem all rosy at first, it's really not.


My point is there is so much unnecessary spending going in too many vital sectors it's not even funny. I just wish the Tea Baggers (as Bill Maher calls 'em ) would articulate their arguments better because lord knows someone needs to get in the Congressmen and Senator's faces about this crap. People are quick to point the finger at Obama, but they forget two important things;

1 - There's only so much he can do

2 - He technically has no real law-making authority; he can only sign legislation into law, not propose it and try as he might he can not force the congress to his will, because that wouldn't be democracy. As Jack Cafferty has noted over @ CNN many, many times over, why the hell is it that encumbants in the House & Senate have a 17% approval rating yet get re-elected 85% or more of the time?!

These are the people who have direct impact on the laws that shape your country, and are the ones who should be in the receiving end of (most of) the people's ire. I remember my Dad telling me up until the 80's or something like that Lobbying was actually illegal in the U.S.; Well who in God's name changed that?! Couldn't Obama sign an executive order to cease that shit? And if not, start hounding your officials to push for it.

It's not terribly likely that it'd ever pass, but if it did you'd probably see a lot more people voting with their conscience instead of what they're being paid to vote for. IIRC, Rand and the Tea Party is also pushing for 12 year term limits on Senators - Still a lot higher than I personally care for but it's a start.

It is absolutely sickening what these people are doing to your country. Just look at Chris Dodd, that bastard. Not only is he an absolute liar about a lot of things, he's retiring with an annual pension of over $120,000! And there's nothing anyone can do about it.


Really? $120,000+ for the rest of your life because you served in the Congress? For Christ sake The President doesn't even get a severance package at least not that I'm aware of. And yet these pricks think they're entitled to all this money on backs of the tax payers because they sat in a room arguing like school children for several years? Excuse me while I go puke my guts out.


/rant off.

[Armando]

Re: Yet another **** storm for the Tea Party

Yes, I believe we already covered humanity's hedonistic nature.

There is a gigantic difference between seeking happiness and being a hedonist. They're nowhere close to being the same thing.

but as a whole humanity is just not wired for sitting around and singing kumbaya around a global campfire

They're not wired for conflict either. People are born as blank slates.

People are stubborn.
People are scum.
This will not change.

Not everyone is. That'll never change either.