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  • #16
    Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

    I love the infant mortality rate one. Still born children and those who die within the first 24 hours aren't counted in countries like UK. In fact, if the child is under a certain weight, they are considered nonviable, and so don't count against their totals. The US on the other hand, counts EVERY birth, no matter how critical the infant may be, which means that children that are given up for lost in other countries are still given the best care possible here in the states. Easy to make the US look bad when you're willing to fudge your numbers. link

    Japan has the highest life expectancy and the most MRI machines per person, and yet they have a severe lack of specialists and doctors in general due to government control. The government decides wages (dictates reimbursement) and so general practitioners are paid the same as specialists/internalists, despite how much extra training is required for the latter, which means more and more newcomers are going the easy route and avoiding specialties altogether. This means that the OBGYN needed for an at risk pregnancy is nowhere to be found, leading to cases such as in October of 2008 when a pregnant women was turned away from 7 hospitals and died. Or a similar incident in 2006 where a women gave birth after being turned away from 18 hospitals before giving birth and then dying. Japan’s Doctor Shortage Resulting in Patient Deaths

    US has the most expensive healthcare, but its also the best, which is why the rich and world leaders from every other country come HERE for their care. Wasn't there just a story about how a politico from Canadia just came to the US for heart surgery? He would have had to wait much longer and undergo more invasive surgery in his home country w/ its free healthcare, so he opted to pay more and come here for the best care. An option he denies his own populace. link And the government here will exempt itself from being forced into the system they are inflicting upon the rest of us. True hypocrisy from the self deluded "ruling class."

    If these politicians were really interested in lowering costs of healthcare, they'd start w/ tort reform and malpractice insurance. Average doc spends more than 40k a year in malpractice insurance alone. Between that and the student loans for 8 years minimum just to become a doc (much more if its a specialist) then is it really any surprise why doc bills are so much. link

    And lets not forget that every person w/ private insurance is essentially forced to subsidize medicare recipients' bills, since the government refuses to pay market value for medical services. When the govt decides they'll only pay 70-80% of the costs of services rendered, the hospitals increase the costs on everyone else in order to make up the difference, which means the costs get passed onto those of us WITH private insurance. link

    There are plenty of problems w/ the system that need to be addressed, but trying to emulate socialist polices of countries (where the people who can afford to avoid the bureaucracy do so by coming the the US for care) is not the way to do it. But this was never about healtcare reform. Its a naked power grab. The democrats are going to get hit HARD in November, but they figure that once the system is in place they'll be able to ride the entitlement mentality to a permanent majority status. After all, if you don't vote for dems, then those NASTY conservatives will take your welfare-oops, i mean, healthcare away.

    This whole thing is an entitlement scam. Health insurance is NOT a human right. You have NO RIGHT to take the products and services from someone else w/out paying for it. But that is what this ultimately boils down to. People want the best care in the world, and they want someone else to pay for it. Well for every person above you that you're trying to get a buck from, there are three below you trying to get a buck from you.

    Allowing people to buy out of state would increase the insurance pool, while letting individuals decide what they want in their policy, as opposed to the individual state mandates that drive up costs. If you're not familiar w/ state mandates, it works like this: If an insurance company wants to operate in a state, they have to cover an arbitrary list of items decided by the state government. EVERY policy needs to cover these basic items. So if you're a 24 year old man, you're paying in for breast cancer coverage and fertility treatments and other things that will very likely never affect you. Young women get to pay for prostate exams and viagra.

    Think of the cost savings involved in not having to pay for unnecessary coverage. If you have a family history of heart disease, but none of strokes, then why not have a plan that JUST covers heart disease related illnesses? There a history of cancer but none of heart disease? Customize your plan to cover what you think you may have issues with and don't pay for things you don't need. When companies are allowed to freely compete, they'll work to make a plan that works for you. If you want general coverage, buy from Company A. If you want specified coverage, see if they offer it. If not, go to Company B, C, or D. Or if you DO NOT have any problems in your family medical history, get catastrophic coverage where you pay for your own check ups and treatments, but if you get in an accident or have a major health problem your insurance will cover it. You pick what you want based on what you want covered and what you want to pay.

    And the dropping people when they get sick thing is something that can be addressed. If you've been paying your premiums, in other words, fulfilling your part of the contract, then you should not be dropped when you get sick. The thing is, though, it doesn't make sense for insurance companies to drop people when they get sick, because in a free market system, if Company A is known for such tactics, they'll lose customers, which means they lose money, and either change the behaviour or go out of business. Open competition and honoring contractual law would fix that problem.

    Health savings accounts would be a way to address costs as well. Allow a person to build a pretax health savings account to cover medical expenses. They won't go in to the ER for the sniffles because that'll eat away at their account, but they'll have the money when they DO need to go in for whatever reason. People will act more responsibly when they're paying with their own money. And the HSA's should be allowed to roll over yearly, as well.

    There are many ways to lower healthcare costs in the US, but it is unfortunate that we have a government more concerned with increasing its power and less concerned with actually helping fix a system that works for the MAJORITY of Americans.

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    • #17
      Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

      NOW 'incensed' over anti-abortion executive order – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

      FOXNews.com - Choice, Life Groups Slam Obama Order on Abortion Funding

      Told ya.

      Forget conservatives and Republicans, liberals and Democrats are going to have to worry about other liberals and Democrat voters this November

      This is our Democratic majority not listening to anybody, just their own egos. Yesterday, Polosi told Stupak there would be no deal, now there's a deal. Obama say's he's a pro-choice president, but makes a pro-life move to get the bill passed. What will this say about the Pro-Choice Democrats to the pro-choice crowd?
      Last edited by Omgwtfbbqkitten; 03-21-2010, 04:52 PM.

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      • #18
        Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

        Originally posted by Possum View Post
        And we were doing so well with keeping the discussion mature.
        That's what you hear a lot of people saying though. That, and "Don't mess with my Medicare! I don't want the government getting involved in my healthcare." /facepalm


        The U.S. spends around 16% give or take of it's annual GDP on Health Care! And by many standards (I got all this while reading Mel Hurtig's "The Truth About Canada" a great book btw) while us Canadians only spend 9.5% on our Single Payer system. We have a lot less people by comparison yes (roughly 10.5 Americans per Canadian) but also a lot less money than you guys. In fact, you're the only industrialized nation without a Single Payer system.

        Now I'm not claiming that that would fix everything, but it sure would help a tonne. There needs to be a serious shift towards preventative care healthier lifestyles etc etc.

        Originally posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post
        Obama has lied about many things, you know, like how we have to spend money to get out of debt. I've tried it and and can say, personally, it doesn't work. But he decided to spend my grandkid's money anyway, they'll be born owing $30k each in taxes.
        Are you really that dense? You can not pay down the debt and fix the economy at the same time, it doesn't work that way. He's absolutely right that they have to spend money to help get people back to work and stabilize the economy. Then you can deal with the debt. And like it or not, you can't do that without raising taxes either. Spending cuts will only go so far, and people have a stupid tendency to want more entitlement programs while at the same time decrying any new taxes. Some stuff will probably have to be cut that's for damn sure. but cutting spending will only go so far.

        Unless, you know, someone had the balls to cut defense spending. You spend more than the next ten countries combined every year on the military, which is just obscene. It's one of the few points I find myself agreeing 100% with Ron Paul about. Let the Arabs destroy themselves. I'm not saying this to be racist; you can't force Democracy on people! They have to want it. Besides Al Queda isn't even in Afghanistan anymore they've moved to Yemen and other areas.

        You want to put an end to Terrorism? Educate the people, and for the love of God do some actual securing of the nation's ports and borders! IIRC, Lou Dobbs once pointed out that less than 5% of all incoming cargo to the U.S. is inspected. THAT'S RIDICULOUS! And air port security is a fucking joke...


        Originally posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post
        Holy shit, they did make history today - they made pro-lifers and pro-choicers angry at the same time.
        Not gonna argue that point and it's a very touchy subject. All I will say on the matter is the majority of the country (60~70% last I checked) is pro-choice so what gives.


        Rant/Debate more later, wanna catch Real Time with Bill Maher ^^
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        • #19
          Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

          Originally posted by Malacite
          Are you really that dense? You can not pay down the debt and fix the economy at the same time, it doesn't work that way.
          He's not fixing the economy, he's too busy destroying it. Health Care, Cap and Trade, etc.

          Anyway, 219 Democrats just decided tonight that they don't want a job anymore. See you in November, not to mention the Supreme Court. You have 38 State Attorney Generals and 38 Governors ready to challenge this Bill.

          Things like the government making people pay for insurance, a product, that's considered unconstitutional. Nowhere in my life has the federal government made me buy a product.

          And we can thank Stupid, I mean, Stupak for all of this. He got his little executive order that Obama would not federally fund abortions. He doesn't seem to know that executive orders don't mean anything. I think he and his chums were just going to vote "yes" anyway, he just needed a cover to take the heat off of him from pro-lifers.

          Wonder what our taxpayer dollars really bought him.

          This isn't going to go anywhere pretty, so mods can go ahead and lock it before I say something I might regret later. I am so fucking outraged right now. I have to call and see tomorrow if my family doctor and neurologists will even be around anymore.
          Last edited by Omgwtfbbqkitten; 03-21-2010, 08:25 PM.

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          • #20
            Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

            Originally posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post
            Things like the government making people pay for insurance, a product, that's considered unconstitutional. Nowhere in my life has the federal government made me buy a product.
            Really, so I guess you think driver's insurance is stupid too? And seat belts?
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            • #21
              Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

              Originally posted by Malacite View Post
              Really, so I guess you think driver's insurance is stupid too? And seat belts?
              The federal goverment has no say in that matter, at all, period. Never has. State governments do and it varies state-to state. My state requires I buy insurance or I can't legally drive in North Caroline, but New Hampshire doesn't have to at all.

              See, that's what's at issue here - the federal government is now allowed to expand tremendously and that's encroaching on state government. This is what we call a "power grab," they are not only changing the relationship between patients and doctors, but the federal government and the state government. This is not constitutional, the federal government is not supposed to have that kind of power over the state.

              I trust state government about as far as I can throw it, but if I have to choose between state and federal government looking out for me - state government all the way because they won't be as invasive about it.
              Last edited by Omgwtfbbqkitten; 03-22-2010, 12:00 AM.

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              • #22
                Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

                Still hoping beyond hope something happens and this all goes away, soon.
                Agree with you, Mal, about how we should put more time into living healthier and preventative care. However, its not the federal government's job to force it onto me. Change for the sake of change isn't good. And this certainly isn't better than what we have now. What we have now is crap, this is about 100x worse. Medicare is certainly part of the problem as well.

                Feba: I think part of the problem is that, as BBQ pointed out, many member of the House aren't voting in agreement what what there constituents want. They're making the decisions that they want, not the ones they were elected to make, and hoping that everyone forgets before they're back up for reelection.

                EDIT/Moderator's note: So far this has been pretty mature. Let's keep it that way. Politics, like religion, are potential powder kegs on forums (as I'm sure we all know). Keep your head's on straight, don't take anything personally, and ffs no trolling.
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                • #23
                  Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

                  Originally posted by Malacite View Post
                  Really, so I guess you think driver's insurance is stupid too? And seat belts?
                  Seat belts? Should be a person's choice. If they have no care for their own safety and don't buckle up, that's their own fault, no?

                  And driver's insurance only need be purchased if you drive on the state roads. This healthcare thing is different in that if you don't want driver's insurance, you can choose not to drive, but the new plan is that you HAVE to buy health insurance just for existing. NO CHOICE.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

                    I just found a lot of familiar "republican rhetoric" in the NOW's presidents press release:

                    http://www.now.org/press/03-10/03-21b.html

                    Fact: The bill permits age-rating, the practice of imposing higher premiums on older people. This practice has a disproportionate impact on women, whose incomes and savings are lower due to a lifetime of systematic wage discrimination.

                    Fact: The bill also permits gender-rating, the practice of charging women higher premiums simply because they are women. Some are under the mistaken impression that gender-rating has been prohibited, but that is only true in the individual and small-group markets. Larger group plans (more than 100 employees) sold through the exchanges will be permitted to discriminate against women -- having an especially harmful impact in workplaces where women predominate.
                    This is that whole "death panel" thing people were talking about. Both points are important. Someone in the federal goverment is going to look at your age, your health, estimate how long you live, how much you've paid into the system and how much you're worth. And if you're in a company with a lot of other women, you get to pay more for being a woman.

                    Basically, its no different than what Obama has been accusing insurance companies of. But now that they're going to have to be tools of the federal government, that's OK. All of them, if their companies won't furnish private insurance, will have to buy insurance by law. Mandated. Required.

                    You are being required to buy something for existing, and not only existing, but how old you are or what sex you are.

                    Since Obama had the audacity to quote Lincoln recently, here's one: "I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country...Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."

                    Democrats (corporations) have enthroned themselves, they aren't listening to the American people (corruption), and now they've got the biggest entitlement program ever in their claws and they're going to make millions of Americans dependent on them (prejudice). And they did use prejudice, they played the pro-life card to secure this win. Health Care being a "fundamental human right" was the mantra, which play upon a sense of entitlement.
                    Last edited by Omgwtfbbqkitten; 03-22-2010, 07:58 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

                      Imo, the Republicans have stirred the pot and warped things to make average people get all bent out of shape over this. No, nothing is perfect and I'm sure that there will be potholes along the way but it is something thats needed and we have to start somewhere.
                      Originally posted by Feba
                      But I mean I do not mind a good looking man so long as I do not have to view his penis.
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                      God I hate my periods. You think passing a clot through a vagina is bad? Try it with a penis.
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                      • #26
                        Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

                        Originally posted by EternalMalachi View Post
                        Seat belts? Should be a person's choice. If they have no care for their own safety and don't buckle up, that's their own fault, no?

                        And driver's insurance only need be purchased if you drive on the state roads. This healthcare thing is different in that if you don't want driver's insurance, you can choose not to drive, but the new plan is that you HAVE to buy health insurance just for existing. NO CHOICE.
                        If you don't want health insurance, you can choose not to live.

                        ...

                        ...

                        Just kidding!

                        Carry on.
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                        • #27
                          Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

                          Originally posted by TheGrandMom View Post
                          No, nothing is perfect and I'm sure that there will be potholes along the way but it is something thats needed and we have to start somewhere.
                          We could have started with something that would ACTUALLY fix the problem, like tort reform (no, because the Dem's are beholden to trial lawyers), or allowing people to buy insurance from across state lines (no, because that takes control from the government). Instead, of that, they passed a bill to massively increase government power/control over everyone.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

                            Originally posted by TheGrandMom View Post
                            Imo, the Republicans have stirred the pot and warped things to make average people get all bent out of shape over this. No, nothing is perfect and I'm sure that there will be potholes along the way but it is something thats needed and we have to start somewhere.
                            We just needed to fix the system we have, not fundamentally change the balance of power between state and federal government. people and their doctors and burn the Constitution in the process.

                            Our founders advocated the separation of powers between states and federal government so neither could ever get too big. That's why there are checks and balances within the federal government and the states as well.

                            Obama does not like the supreme court and attacked and lied about them in his SoU, he is not happy with the loss of a filibuster-proof Senate because of Scott Brown. So now he does whatever it takes, even going against his oath of office to do it.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

                              Originally posted by EternalMalachi View Post
                              (no, because the politicians are beholden to trial lawyers)
                              FTFY. Money in general has too much influence in politics regardless of affiliation.
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                              • #30
                                Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

                                Originally posted by Malacite View Post
                                FTFY. Money in general has too much influence in politics regardless of affiliation.
                                Nice red herring, do you know what tort reform and frivolous lawsuits are?

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