Okay, why am I bringing up Net Neutrality again?

[Jarre]

Re: Okay, why am I bringing up Net Neutrality again?

Ouch my head hurts, I guess if this gets implimented I'll just have to find out!!

[Lady Kelenae]

Re: Okay, why am I bringing up Net Neutrality again?

In my personal opinion.. anything effecting the internet isnt just a national thing.. the internet is world wide, What effects the internet effects us all no matter where you live..

Just my 2 cents... goes back to lurking and modding >.>

[kuu]

Re: Okay, why am I bringing up Net Neutrality again?

A lot of it is, "if"s and "and"s.

That's an extreme case, and may or may not happen. Backbone have no plans to do bandwith teirs.

It's in their best nature not to, while Verizon, cable companies, ISPs do want it.

So at least for short to midterm, it will only effect the end points(ISPs) the rich gets faster, the poor gets slower.

As always it's the possiblity of "non-restriction" that plays here.

If one kid throws food at another's face in the lunch room, will it escalate to a free for all? Or will it stay between two kids?

[Gentoo]

Re: Okay, why am I bringing up Net Neutrality again?

A lot of it is, "if"s and "and"s.
That's an extreme case...{snippage}

There kind of has to be a bunch of ifs 'n ands if you want to explain, concretely, why using proxies isn't going to provide immunity. I guess I could have answered "Proxies won't get around the problem."

The cases isn't any more extreme that the ones that the EFF or savetheinternet.com have laid out.

Also, the AT&T was all over the tiered internet notion, and they are a backbone provider. Many of the others have remained silent or non-commital on the subject.

Your point is taken, however. Even if network neutrality doesn't get put in place, there's nothing saying that all the end-point ISP's are going to introduce tier networking services.

The reverse is equally true -- and potentially there's a bunch of money to made by the providers if they do introduce tiered internet services.

[Jarre]

Re: Okay, why am I bringing up Net Neutrality again?

So at least for short to midterm, it will only effect the end points(ISPs) the rich gets faster, the poor gets slower.

A question if I may, how does the US ISP's work is it the same as the uk?

For example my ISP.

I can pay

£17.99 ($34.17) a month to get up to 8mb speed (dependant on phone line) and 2Gb download limit a month.

£22.99 ($43.67) a month to get up to 8mb speed and 20Gb download limit a month.

£26.99 ($51.26) a month to get up to 8mb speed and 40gb download limit a month.

The latter is the package I am on with Bt Broadband, though I am limited to 2mb max download speed due to the distance from the telephone exchange and lack of cable in my area.

There are other slightly cheaper providers, but they get speed limited if alot of peoplea re on to save the servers. With Bt I have never got less than 2mb download speed and I have had the package nearly a year and use it alot.

If I go over my 40Gb limit they cap my speed to 376kb, though I have yet to reach my cap. You can't buy extra GB a month.

So the rich get faster and poorer slower, well not quite in the Uk its more the rich get more GB to download and a more stable service. (hey I'm not rich, I just use the net for work and pleasure so i get a sub from work to pay for it)

Is it the same around the US?

[kuu]

Re: Okay, why am I bringing up Net Neutrality again?

A question if I may, how does the US ISP's work is it the same as the uk?

For example my ISP.

I can pay

£17.99 ($34.17) a month to get up to 8mb speed (dependant on phone line) and 2Gb download limit a month.

£22.99 ($43.67) a month to get up to 8mb speed and 20Gb download limit a month.

£26.99 ($51.26) a month to get up to 8mb speed and 40gb download limit a month.

The latter is the package I am on with Bt Broadband, though I am limited to 2mb max download speed due to the distance from the telephone exchange and lack of cable in my area.

There are other slightly cheaper providers, but they get speed limited if alot of peoplea re on to save the servers. With Bt I have never got less than 2mb download speed and I have had the package nearly a year and use it alot.

If I go over my 40Gb limit they cap my speed to 376kb, though I have yet to reach my cap. You can't buy extra GB a month.

So the rich get faster and poorer slower, well not quite in the Uk its more the rich get more GB to download and a more stable service. (hey I'm not rich, I just use the net for work and pleasure so i get a sub from work to pay for it)

Is it the same around the US?

It's another level of QoS so to say.

Having bandwith isn't the whole thing, there are things like ports/services/pings

For example Verizon's Xtreme gamer broadband package will give preference to gamers, (low latency) who pay for it.

Of course we know that in a world of limited resources, someone is going to get bumped for those customers.

Now increase that. Say that not just pingtimes/bandwith, but to certain areas like MTV. So you divert traffic for richer customers.

Extend that to VoIP(the major battleground of net-nutralitity right now). We give preference to bundled VoIP serivces, and maybe(ha! by that I mean absolute) trip over another company.

Thus it all can potentionally spin into a crazy loop of axis' of evil, and what not, all fighting a covet war for customers.

But to answer your question simply:
Paying for minium price suddenly means not only being slower, but giving way of better pings/max speed/ etc to richer customers.

[Jarre]

Re: Okay, why am I bringing up Net Neutrality again?

It seems at the moment my package ahs a better ping than my mates on NTL (he has 10mb download) but in Counter strike, I get a ping of between 12 & 40 depending on time of day and he gets a ping of 20-160, though he has a faster connection and unlimited downloads, I think ping is all down to your ISP's servers not speed of connection.

Though what you are saying is that the pipe from your ISP to the game server may be "diluted" depending on how much money is spent etc.

Now that shows up how much of a F up world we live in, pay to access internet, pay more toa ccess faster, pay more to play games, pay more to not have a crap ping (no offense ping )

[kuu]

Re: Okay, why am I bringing up Net Neutrality again?

It seems at the moment my package ahs a better ping than my mates on NTL (he has 10mb download) but in Counter strike, I get a ping of between 12 & 40 depending on time of day and he gets a ping of 20-160, though he has a faster connection and unlimited downloads, I think ping is all down to your ISP's servers not speed of connection.

Though what you are saying is that the pipe from your ISP to the game server may be "diluted" depending on how much money is spent etc.

Now that shows up how much of a F up world we live in, pay to access internet, pay more toa ccess faster, pay more to play games, pay more to not have a crap ping (no offense ping )

currently, ping time is the amount of time from begining to end. While the speed of information sent is to the speed of light, the medium it uses is not.

How many "hops" it takes and the quality of each hop, will speed or slow you down. 27 hops is worse then 3, further changed by the time it takes for each hop to redirect you.

So if your 5th hop in a 7 hop loop to counter strike server, is giving you 200ms, you're getting screwed.

Now currently it's more or less random where you're routed to, unless you're a bitchy customer that is getting packet loss and they rerout you. And generally it's balanced to the load of an area.

But with an ISP package, it becomes that all customers on "the program" will get routed to the fastest, and shove everyone else to the slower, etc,etc,etc.

And not just ping times, but potential max speeds. If two people are routed to the same area, and downloading a saturated amount of data. A system can be put in place to give one preference. So even your 10mbit get's crippled depending on where you go.

[Moaku Hyena]

Re: Okay, why am I bringing up Net Neutrality again?

Now that shows up how much of a F up world we live in, pay to access internet, pay more toa ccess faster, pay more to play games, pay more to not have a crap ping (no offense ping )

Sorry, had to laugh.
Believe it or not, our world--or country alone-- is more fucked up than you think.

Edit: OH DEAR GOD THE QUOTE URL TAGS ARE BROKEN!!!!
Where are my functional quote tags?!
I'm in denial here!!!
From PiNG: [QUOTE = Jarre] should have had no spaces before and after = , basically put it into one word...