Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

[Malacite]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

I agree, but I doubt they'll scale the SJ. I can definitely see them giving SCH one more charge at 90 however.

But would it go down to 30s, or 50s? I'm betting on 50, but oh man would 30 ever be sweet. Though, if they really did do that, and give SCH Cure V (which they should, and give WHM Cure VI) that would be rather OP. SCH & RDM definitely need to both get Cure V eventually, however assuming BLM gets Tier V nukes (and if they don't that's bullshit) those should stay exclusive to to BLM and remove tier 4 from Addendum: Black for SCH because logically, with caps going up another 24 levels RDM really should learn Tier 4.


Guess this means DRK will get Tier 3 now? Not that it matters worth a crap.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

Dynamis is not going to be instanced or fixed or repaired or made better.

I don't think its beyond making a reservation system for, nor is Limbus. For all intents and purposes, Einherjar is just like Dynamis, only you know who has dibs and what time you can reserve for your LS.

[Karinya]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

If SCH doesn't keep up with BLM in having the same spells (at least for single target non AMs), then the game will go back to having only one effective nuker (instead of one that is respected, and one that works but isn't respected) for post-75 content. Who wants that? Even some BLMs don't want that, because it forces them to come BLM to everything all the time.

Besides, how could they give SCH no new nukes at all for 24 levels? Nuking is one of their primary job functions.

BTW, if they follow the existing pattern for stratagem charge time, it would be 48 seconds (4 minutes divided by 5) at 90 or whatever level they give the 5th charge (if any).

[Balfree]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

BLM is so getting Meteor, or maybe Comet

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

If SCH doesn't keep up with BLM in having the same spells (at least for single target non AMs), then the game will go back to having only one effective nuker (instead of one that is respected, and one that works but isn't respected) for post-75 content. Who wants that? Even some BLMs don't want that, because it forces them to come BLM to everything all the time.

If this update pans out for mages like everyone hopes it does, this update means that SCH - at least for 80 so far - is hands-down the best defensive buffer in the game and now can support offense with Haste, to boot.

But if we see another tier of haste for WHM or RDM that could reduce the demands for haste builds for melees a great deal.

Also, I have a feeling that if anything is going to die with these updates, its the adherence to the current endgame playbook. If SE's goal is to keep group requirements low and job specializations high, I think SCH could be accepted as someone that nukes and nukes well.

Plus if there's still manaburn camps a the higher levels, SCH will still have an outlet for nuking. Sure, its not thrilling that they never get to do it in alliance content, but the one time we got todo it was just to capitalize on an exploit and that wasn't very fulfilling to me, either.

This is why I want the current endgame to die like it deserves to. Seems like newer jobs only ever got a chance to shine if they could exploit the system somehow. The only ToA/WotG jobs that ever got to play with the cool kids were COR and SCH and even then they were never used to full potential.

For whatever batshit reason, even if the LS doesn't have a relic horn BRD, COR gets stiffed with melee parties when they have better mage buffs than BRD does. Oh, I'm sorry that the worst I could possibly do is 2MP per-tick Refresh with Magic Accuracy/Attack, +hMP or Conserve MP buffs. Yeah. I'm a real bastard for that. Let me go attend to the Haste-hungry melees with my lack of Haste.

And then BRD get stuck with mages when they have all the best MELEE buffs. Its like Bizarro World for those two in endgame. I always felt like unless I was an officer, my BRD and COR only got used in the most halfassed ways imaginable.

No tears to shed about the old big-group endgame dying here.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

If SCH doesn't keep up with BLM in having the same spells (at least for single target non AMs), then the game will go back to having only one effective nuker (instead of one that is respected, and one that works but isn't respected) for post-75 content. Who wants that?

Didn't bother them when they buffed Pld out the ass and relegated Nin to a gimped DD role thereby ensuring a one tank only game again.

For whatever batshit reason, even if the LS doesn't have a relic horn BRD, COR gets stiffed with melee parties when they have better mage buffs than BRD does. Oh, I'm sorry that the worst I could possibly do is 2MP per-tick Refresh with Magic Accuracy/Attack, +hMP or Conserve MP buffs. Yeah. I'm a real bastard for that. Let me go attend to the Haste-hungry melees with my lack of Haste.

And then BRD get stuck with mages when they have all the best MELEE buffs. Its like Bizarro World for those two in endgame. I always felt like unless I was an officer, my BRD and COR only got used in the most halfassed ways imaginable.

It's always interesting to see what NA shells do even if I can't understand the logic of it. My Dyna shell has Cor and Brd supporting the Blm and Sch as preference. Although, to be fair, there aren't many big alliance endgame events worth a damn in the game anymore, most people I know are doing Ein, Limbus, and Salvage. Does anyone even bother with Sea anymore for instance?

[Armando]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

But if we see another tier of haste for WHM or RDM that could reduce the demands for haste builds for melees a great deal.

How? Tossing more Haste on the melees for free is only going to make their Haste builds all that more effective.

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

I don't think its beyond making a reservation system for, nor is Limbus. For all intents and purposes, Einherjar is just like Dynamis, only you know who has dibs and what time you can reserve for your LS.

Yes, true. My theory is that SE simply doesn't have the gumption to want to try. I don't know, maybe in the Japanese gamer mindset, it's alot more easy going and friendly doing Dynamis types of runs, so SE doesn't see a problem there. It simply doesn't work that way in the majority of NA-mind sets. I think because Japan shares one time zone vs NA has 4 separate might factor in to the attitude situation. -shrug-

If SE revamped Dynamis, that would suddenly be a positive reinforcement of my opinion of their MMORPG making skills. he he....

Didn't bother them when they buffed Pld out the ass and relegated Nin to a gimped DD role thereby ensuring a one tank only game again.

That didn't stop NIN from being a primary tank after PLD buff. All it did was put PLD up there with NIN. NIN's didn't get shoved behind; at least, not on my server. The only place NIN gets shoved behind is endgame and thats' because PLD is just way much more easier to tank with than NIN and requires a bit more expert precision to tank on a NIN and few more key jobs buffing it. It use to be PLD/WAR all the way w/several ppl subbing /SMN for blink buff cycles. Then it switched to PLD/NIN when all the good enmity gear started showing up. And sorry, NIN in the right hands of the right player is anything but gimped.

It's always interesting to see what NA shells do even if I can't understand the logic of it. My Dyna shell has Cor and Brd supporting the Blm and Sch as preference. Although, to be fair, there aren't many big alliance endgame events worth a damn in the game anymore, most people I know are doing Ein, Limbus, and Salvage. Does anyone even bother with Sea anymore for instance?

All the servers are different. Tons of people still do everything on Gilgamesh; in fact, Limbus gets overbooked; Dynamis too.... I've been in instances where one other shell was doing a Jailer after our group. Sea is still alive and kicking.. with the exception of camping Kings; only a small handful NA shells do that anymore; one FR I know of. All the JP shells are spamming Throne Room every chance it comes up.

Since Torque drop rates fail, you can imagine that will be spammed over and over by those wanting torques. Guess some ppl could've given up too and said GTFO.

How? Tossing more Haste on the melees for free is only going to make their Haste builds all that more effective.

Obviously he's referring to someone that can't afford haste gear, can't camp the items, can't get into the runs; new players, players that don't play much.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

The only place NIN gets shoved behind is endgame

That's what I was referring to. Let's be honest, very few give a shit about what a job plays like in the levelling game anymore as it's easier and faster than it ever has been to reach 75 now.

And sorry, NIN in the right hands of the right player is anything but gimped.

An awesomely played DD Nin will fall behind a mediocre played Drg, Sam, or War everytime, no exception. An awesomely played Nin tank will fall by the wayside of mediocre played Pld tanks everytime. It wasn't just Pld buffing that destroyed Nin tanking but the change in direction of encounter design.

[ShepardG]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

Funny story,

Had a Kikko Nin try out for our LS yesterday, we did two Tinnin's as we had the pops lying around (got a fang, woot woot)
He was co-tanking with our Taiwanesse main tank.

Main tank has aegis/Burtgang(as well as mandau,yoichi,amano,bravura)

It wasn't even really worth it, so he could DD and keep up shadows he only had like 1038 HP and never swapped in dmg down gear. He died twice, once each tinnin, furthering what I'm about to scream:

THROWING WEAPONS NEED WEAPONSKILLS.

[Laynton]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

THROWING WEAPONS NEED WEAPONSKILLS.

I AGREE!!!! would be the coolest thing every!!! ive thought about this alot and wished hard but doubt it will ever come true. oh well.... would be cool to have ws based on type of throwing weapon your equiped with. i.e. grenedes, shurikins, boomarangs, discs, darts grenedes could be aoe, shurikins and darts single target, booms and discs have like a fan effect to hit targets only in front of you or hit 3 closest targets.

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

That's what I was referring to. Let's be honest, very few give a shit about what a job plays like in the levelling game anymore as it's easier and faster than it ever has been to reach 75 now.

OK. Understood; in the meantime, I'm still inviting NIN's to meripo and lolbri 63 and East Ron parties and them working quite successfully; even Aydeewa 10k/hour parties. And its just still a success even there. My 65 NIN has also been partying in those places and working successfully. I've gone from 37 to 65 in the past week alone.

An awesomely played DD Nin will fall behind a mediocre played Drg, Sam, or War everytime, no exception. An awesomely played Nin tank will fall by the wayside of mediocre played Pld tanks everytime. It wasn't just Pld buffing that destroyed Nin tanking but the change in direction of encounter design.

I'm with you on the terms of the linear scale of job performance. I'm not with you on job availability, nor am I with you on terms of all endgame from a popular thinking standpoint. Two of my good friends have played NIN since 04 and spam Omega all the time with their small group. Everyone's got full Homam gear. No PLDS were invited simply for the fact that no one had it available to them.

On a further note, at East Ron, I am hitting 30-40 damage per 4 sec opposed to someone's 80-120 per 7.5+ and hitting ws from 80-150 vs their 150-230. While I'm not a typical DD, I'm still tanking the majority of the time until they hit LV40+. Then I'm only an initial tank and switch to DD which amps up; I don't know my crit rate, I don't have parses here with me right now. I'm sure your thinking, "GTFO, put another DRG in there." But you're forgetting that there's not always optimal circumstances. For 1 PL to pull consistent chains past 100, you WANT some kind of a tank. 5xDD /war + a BRD is annoying unless you have at least 3 good PL's. And if those that come /NIN are not too lazy to keep up shadows, then yeh, you've got the perfect situation and the NIN would not be up to par.... unless you introduced a THF. And I'f I'm not mistaken, a good THF can hit 3-500 WS dmg at this time; that's THF's uber shining moment; doing huge WS that other's can't do until their 60 (except a Souleater Sturmwind.)

Feel free to think how you wish. I just see it differntly that's all. You're perception is linked to your own understanding of how you see the dynamics anyway.

I AGREE!!!! would be the coolest thing every!!! ive thought about this alot and wished hard but doubt it will ever come true. oh well.... would be cool to have ws based on type of throwing weapon your equiped with. i.e. grenedes, shurikins, boomarangs, discs, darts grenedes could be aoe, shurikins and darts single target, booms and discs have like a fan effect to hit targets only in front of you or hit 3 closest targets.

I'm going to assume that not enough of us fans bytched about this to SE to give them an annoying buzz in their ear; enough that it would have caused them to give us what we want so we would GTFO. lol Cuz that's been my gripe, as well as others, since near to day 1. Of course, back when PLDs were mad at NINs, SE probably didn't give it to us because of that. Now that PLDs are souped up and NIN has a silly little JA that causes you to over-exert your accuracy to help keep hate, it sure as hell seems appropriate now!!!!!!

[Losrase]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

I wonder if they are going to raise the level cap of your NPC Fellow. It would be awesome if the keep it the same and have it be 5 levels less (Level 94 when all is said and done) the the PC level cap.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

And more armour choices for them! I can only cycle between Lord's, Alumine, Noble's, and Hachiman so often before getting bored.