Battle System Adjustments (03/05/2007)

[Omniblast]

Re: Battle System Adjustments (03/05/2007)

Nope T.T they didn't

(I'm sorry.)

Well I hope they implement that. It would be great, even with short little sneak attack criticals left and right.

What would be cool if you had 2 thiefs in the same party, with both of them activating perfect dodge and the crits would be in effect. It would bouce back and forth between each of the thiefs. Stick a ninja in front of them and they can trick off of the ninja's when perfect dodge wears off.

[Akashimo]

Re: Battle System Adjustments (03/05/2007)

Lol, if I get hate on thf from a nin, he usually gonna have some trouble getting back from me for 1 of 2 reasons, thf/war 15min spike w/o using TA or 2, the Nin can't hold hate at all =P

[Hyrist]

Re: Battle System Adjustments (03/05/2007)

First off, I'm going to apologize for my rant about BST earlier. It was a stress-out vent from 3 months of seeing nothing but "I'm a victimized bst, pity me!" threads on various other forums non stop.

Most bsts wont bother to post the crap that happens to them, and in doing that earn my respect.

But those who do nothing but complain about the faults of this game non stop (and you know who you are.) get deep under my skin. That's regardless of the class. Poor BSTs have more problems and therefore get more incessant whiners. It was wrong of me to pick on the class for the few bits of scum that float to the surface of the player base.

Those who have calmly, intelectually, and kindly discribed issues that needed to be regarded in this game are the one's doing the best for SE's public relations and development team.

People who just complain, with no real in depth or thought out solution in mind, basically just hand SE a bag of flaming turds. It's flashy, annoying, stinky, and SE has little choice but to step on it to put out the flames, and then you complain that they got crap on their boots.


This update does a lot for the player base.

More than someone like BBQ would admit. Those "reject" jobs such as BLM who's looking for group now can duo, trio, etc. with other classes to form small-parties for exp. SE provided a means to help minimize the bad effects of downtime and help up the exp ratio. This, coupled with the seeking party updates that SE is working on, will really help these classes for getting bits of exp while waiting for parties, so that waiting for hours on end is not a huge loss.

As far as class updates? If you pay attention to what SE said they would do to adjust classes, guess what? They've done all that they said they were going to do. RDMs and BRDs have different situations they can exp in now, which allows for more freedom of play style choice.

THF has the ability of stealing various buffs from the mob via Aura Steal. Not to mention the update on dagger weapons have helped their DoT.

Drks and Warriors have their throwing abilities that SE stated.

Monks have Mantra, formless strikes.

Paladin, thankfully is now a more viable tank than it used to be, and can even now participate in burns.

WHM has his abilities to restore other people's MP or HP, along with more powerful spells.

RDM finally got their tier 2 enfeebles.

DRK has a LOAD of new spells, along with new abilities to help boost them. They also have boosts to their 2 handed weapons thanks to updates to /sam and other merits.

Sam... SAM got a crap load of update goodness with their 'stance' abilities. They also have the ability to share TP for events and whatnot.

Pup has higher level weaponskills to help with their damage output, and are still due for updates (confirmed by interviews.)

BLU has new spells, including one that gives MP based off Damage, a dispel, a Paralyze and mid-level cure. (as if they didn't kick enough butt)

Corsairs now have Sleep and Dispel added to their light and Dark shot, making them more party friendly on top of their buffing and damage dealing potentials.

Summoner got stronger blood pacts via merits, on top of the splitting between their support and attack blood pact timers, now allows them to help the party and deal significant support damage.

Black Mage now has their 2 AM spells, which if bursted upon can be extremely potent.

Pup, and BLM are perhaps the ones that deserve some additional attention, and it has already been stated that PUP is due for updates. BLM however is still unknown.

When it comes to the issue of invites, it has more the do with player-perspective than it does with anything else. No update is going to dramatically change player perspective unless it is a nerf.

I would like to see the THF 2hr Upgrade though.

Other issues:

Dynamisis: Dynamisis does not need instancing as much as the drop rate needs to be increased for all items, to help lessen the time sinks. Having more of the Relic items drop in the non-city based Dynamisis would be nice as well.

Sky: Sky isn't broken, RMTs are broken. Gods may show up in this new assault though, or something similar. If not, there is always room for additions. The only way to combat RMT in this manner will be to create means for players to get the items that will be difficult for RMT to try to monopolize.

HNMs?

See the new Assault areas update, they seem to have already come up with that solution.


SE has been making major changes to the game of late, and major improvements. They may not be up to your expectations of 'priorities' but they are being done. I think now more than ever we will see a very good evolution of this game take place.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Battle System Adjustments (03/05/2007)

With love,
Repion, the level 10 BST that hasn't used Charm since level 1.

So you are either a moron, using charm before 14 and CHR+ gear, or a PT BST and has no idea how this affects the real BSTs who actually solo things and know how to do it, since the way you talk, you do not.

Which is it, you are a goober using loljobskills before 15 trying to solo, or you honestly do not know how to BST solo?

[Murphie]

Re: Battle System Adjustments (03/05/2007)

Dude, he's level 10. Tone down the vitriol.

[Elenim]

Re: Battle System Adjustments (03/05/2007)

I don't get it where people are saying that by duoing or soloing you get 25% more exp. Isn't that only from the exp bands? You do get 15% more when you duo, vs. previously. It still doesn't mean your going to get an amazing amount of exp.

It depends on what you call baseline. You come up with 15% if your baseline is 100 on an EM. This would only be applicable if there was an exp bonus for solo exp, which there isn't. For duo, the current baseline is 60 exp for a EM, the change to 75 will effectively mean that a duo tomorrow will get 25% more exp than they do today given the same number and level of mobs.

As I see it SE doesn't seem to think there is a problem with end game exp. I've not been there so I can't make that call myself. But I do know that with things the way they are, it is damn difficult for a new player to level in a timely manor since the game is currently so top heavy that even the low level hot spots are pretty empty and everything else is just straight up empty.

My wife and I are pretty excited about the new patch since we decided to change servers, and now with a bonus to duo exp we have that option if the group situation doesn't pan out as is often the case. Duo exp will still be painfully slow compared to a full group chain pulling.

I doubt the combat changes will have much effect on end game group dynamics but I'm pretty sure that even if they did, it wouldn't solve the current high end problems. FFXI suffers from a common MMO ailment, lack of space. They released a whole expansion catering to the high end need for space. Still people complain. Let me fill you all in on a tidbit of knowledge I've gleaned from the countless MMO's I've played over the last 7 years. People ask for more high end content, they get it, and they all move to the new areas, over crowding them, and leaving the old areas barren, so they ask for even more content, they get it and the same thing happens.

People wont be satisfied until they can go anywhere they want at any time they want to kill anything they want to get any drop they want. This thought process leads to the logical conclusion of instancing. Now instancing is great and all but it is not a cure all by any means. Say there is uber item xxx that everyone wants, but only one person can get it during a single day. Now say that uber item xxx is a drop from an instance effectively increasing the availability of uber item xxx, which invariably drives the value of uber item xxx down due to an abundant supply with a decrease in demand. Now play this scenario out across several items, and you can see what kind of impact this will have on a servers economy. Instancing should be used sparingly.

I've rambled on for too long, but I've got just one more thing to say. The way people complain when SE makes improvements like this is like someone kicking their father in the balls for buying him a Ford for his birthday when he wanted a BMW. It's uncalled for and just a little bit rude.

[eticket109]

Re: Battle System Adjustments (03/05/2007)

Dude, he's level 10. Tone down the vitriol.

There's been a rash of flaming and insults flying around all these threads lately.

[Murphie]

Re: Battle System Adjustments (03/05/2007)

I've noticed.

[BurningPanther]

Re: Battle System Adjustments (03/05/2007)

There's been a rash of flaming and insults flying around all these threads lately.

It's like a KI infection.

Seriously. I've heard many a good idea and many a gripe pass through this particular thread(and many others). I will be the first to fume over the fact that it's taken S-E long enough to perk up and pay attention to the players and thew problems, but it's important to notice that they're listening now.

So many issues, so many great ideas... why is the "Ask Square-Enix Questions" forum so empty?

We've been doing all this talking amongst ourselves. They're listening now, lets speak our minds.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Battle System Adjustments (03/05/2007)

More than someone like BBQ would admit. Those "reject" jobs such as BLM who's looking for group now can duo, trio, etc. with other classes to form small-parties for exp. SE provided a means to help minimize the bad effects of downtime and help up the exp ratio. This, coupled with the seeking party updates that SE is working on, will really help these classes for getting bits of exp while waiting for parties, so that waiting for hours on end is not a huge loss.

The Signet adjustment does not fix the situation with BLM, BLM can manaburn IT and will get no extra EXP from this change, the bonus only applies to EM or lower. It doesn't even change anything if you're solo or in a PT of 6, and who is going to party in CoP/RoZ zones post-55? Who?

This change directly benefits melee to encourage them to move back into older areas. /SAM was to ecourage melees to defect from /NIN, yet what does every WAR still sub? Ninja.

As far as class updates? If you pay attention to what SE said they would do to adjust classes, guess what? They've done all that they said they were going to do. RDMs and BRDs have different situations they can exp in now, which allows for more freedom of play style choice.

Bards were endgame pullers way before ToA, the job is just more trendy now. RDM tries to emulate what COR and BRD do in pulling, they don't really succeed at it.

THF has the ability of stealing various buffs from the mob via Aura Steal. Not to mention the update on dagger weapons have helped their DoT.

I think I told you about the merit ability before, you scoffed it. They still need new JAs, they shouldn't be a one-trick pony after 30. Mug and Hide really don't have much of a common PT function

Drks and Warriors have their throwing abilities that SE stated.

DRKs, don't use it. WARs hardly do and WAR's is a merit ability, not a job adjustment.

Monks have Mantra, formless strikes.

Merit ability, not job adjustment

Paladin, thankfully is now a more viable tank than it used to be, and can even now participate in burns.

You're slighting PLDs in that statement, they were capable of this before.

WHM has his abilities to restore other people's MP or HP, along with more powerful spells.

Merits, not adjustment.

RDM finally got their tier 2 enfeebles.

Merits.

Pup has higher level weaponskills to help with their damage output, and are still due for updates (confirmed by interviews.)

BLU has new spells, including one that gives MP based off Damage, a dispel, a Paralyze and mid-level cure. (as if they didn't kick enough butt)

Corsairs now have Sleep and Dispel added to their light and Dark shot, making them more party friendly on top of their buffing and damage dealing potentials

Summoner got stronger blood pacts via merits, on top of the splitting between their support and attack blood pact timers, now allows them to help the party and deal significant support damage..

Stating the obvious.

Black Mage now has their 2 AM spells, which if bursted upon can be extremely potent.

Merits, not adjustment.

Pup, and BLM are perhaps the ones that deserve some additional attention, and it has already been stated that PUP is due for updates. BLM however is still unknown.

You just made the crutch argument BLMs could trio and the consoloation prize of merit abilities. Which is it, do the need adjustments or don't they? Pick one and stick with it.

When it comes to the issue of invites, it has more the do with player-perspective than it does with anything else. No update is going to dramatically change player perspective unless it is a nerf.

DRKs sure seem to have it good on invites lately. Now everyone that was lolDRK before is scrambling to level it.

Dynamisis: Dynamisis does not need instancing as much as the drop rate needs to be increased for all items, to help lessen the time sinks. Having more of the Relic items drop in the non-city based Dynamisis would be nice as well.

Assault and Salvage an admission that Dynamis is broken. Instancing is sorely needed, having to plan around other LSes and timezones is a royal pain.

Sky: Sky isn't broken, RMTs are broken. Gods may show up in this new assault though, or something similar. If not, there is always room for additions. The only way to combat RMT in this manner will be to create means for players to get the items that will be difficult for RMT to try to monopolize.

Sea is an admission that sky is broken. RMT don't dominate sea because they can't - practically everything drops a trigger. Do that for sky and you've fixed it.

HNMs?

See the new Assault areas update, they seem to have already come up with that solution.

We said this about Salvage. Look how that turned out. Even if you can get to a floor KB is everyday, it does not address the problems with camping him in BD. Adjustments are supposed to be on the way, but if they adjust the droprate, then more people will have Ridill and that will cease to be special. If anything is dumbing the game down, that would be it. Some things should be hard to get.

[Clever Ninja]

Re: Battle System Adjustments (03/05/2007)

Hey guys I don't agree with your opinions in this topic so I'll flame you like everyone else, cause its apparently the mature and appropriate thing to do.

[Hyrist]

Re: Battle System Adjustments (03/05/2007)

Hyrist all your doing is playing selective quoting so you can argue in favor..

Remember this tidbit BBQ? What are you doing if not misquoting SE?

The developers did not specify the MANNER in which they were attempting their adjustments, you cannot disqualify the Group 2 merits as adjustments just because they don't fit in your preconceived criteria.

The Signet adjustment does not fix the situation with BLM, BLM can manaburn IT and will get no extra EXP from this change, the bonus only applies to EM or lower. It doesn't even change anything if you're solo or in a PT of 6, and who is going to party in CoP/RoZ zones post-55? Who?

Honestly? People who arn't lazy. Sky is easy to access once you've done the quest to get there from crags. And while BLM is looking for partners for that manaburn, he can duo EM and lower with a PUP, lolmeleerdm, bst, Drg, etc to supplement his exp while he waits. Not only do you have difficulties really creating a convincing argument, you're horrible at paying attention.

This change directly benefits melee to encourage them to move back into older areas. /SAM was to ecourage melees to defect from /NIN, yet what does every WAR still sub? Ninja.

Use your head. The /sam update is still rather recient so it's full impact has yet to hit.

Keep in mind that many endgame warriors have been /nin for a very long time and have built up gear to work specifically at that angle. It's not as if they are suddenly going to all jump ship and /sam just because the update allowed for another option. They have spent time and gil to be good at their specified method, and they are going to use it. The /sams are still rising is number as more Warriors are attempting the consept, specifically ones who have not fully dedicated so much to /nin.

Lets not also forget what this did for Dragoon, Dark Knight, and even Ranger. If you're not seeing the upwards trend in /sam in those jobs, then you're flat out blind.


*reading* Blah blah blah, same excuses for most of my arguments. Again, additional abilities, merits or not, are adjustments, quit warping the definition to suit your complaints.

Assault and Salvage an admission that Dynamis is broken.

To you, anything is an excuse that something you don't like is broken.

Assault and Salvage do not have nearly close to the drops Dynamis has, it's a supplement, and EXPANSION not a replacement or an admission to anything. Again, you're warping the truth to support your argument. Dynamisis still has it's uses and the time-sinks are to prevent everyone in the game having Relic Weapons and other over-high end gear.

As I said before, a faster droprate and gear drops in places like Dynamisis Valkrum would solve matters as far as the increese of endgame players. Instancing Dynamisis would be a gigantic server undertaking that is just flatly unrealistic.

When playing the "SE, do this!" game, you have to also keep in mind what can be done with the technology they have, and what sort of overall, long term impact it may inflict. Having Dynamisis be instanced mean that the load on the servers running all of those fights is going to lag the hell out of the game in total (imagine 5 Dynamisis going on in each location on each server, and think of the lag you have before, you can rest assure that the overall game will lag more because of the additional server stress you are giving it by instancing.)

Sea is an admission that sky is broken. RMT don't dominate sea because they can't - practically everything drops a trigger. Do that for sky and you've fixed it.

RMT don't dominate see for a multitude of reasons. The most important of this is that getting to Sea alone takes ten times the effort it does to get sky, access. And the items off of Sea aren't considered nearly as valuable, otherwise people wouldn't still have to be fighting bots and RMT for 3 kings.

If you increase the drop rate for triggers, or even have a multitude for triggers on the Sky gods, all you would be doing is giving RMT the means to monopolize the spawns themselves, instead of the triggers.

Still, it's the best suggestion you've had so far in your posts of late. Perhaps you should submit it to the Ask SE questions forum and have the developers work the kinks out from there.

We said this about Salvage.

Excuse me? Are you god? What gives you such clairvoyance to see the future of something that came out this past holiday season?

There are many dedicated Assault/Salvage Linkshells, much like Dynamisis when it first came out. Better yet, doing assault's that you need for salvage, are a benefit of their own. Having a once-a-weak static ls for this not only has you doing assaults (which helps with Imperial Standing and gives you an overflow of assault points to spend on good gear.) But Salvage works you toward some pieces of endgame gear that are simply unmatched in their respective areas, let alone what degree of benefits one would get for owning a set.

You're quick to judge things too harshly. Maybe you should take a break from the game and relax a little.

Even if you can get to a floor KB is everyday, it does not address the problems with camping him in BD.

What unidimensional thinking. If one could make an attempt to kill KB each day without having to camp for it. Provided it droped the same items, even for worse drop rate than it has now? It STILL makes the spawn-camping NM outdated and near-useless, meaning only a few linkshells will go there to claim him. Gilsellers will drop the attempt cause their efforts will simply go to wasted time, and they really have to focus on inflating the total gil in the game, thanks to SE repeatedly banning their banks.

That means the competition on these spawns will be down SOLVING the issue of them being over-camped.

but if they adjust the droprate, then more people will have Ridill and that will cease to be special. If anything is dumbing the game down, that would be it. Some things should be hard to get.

Wait wait wait waiiiiiit. Just up before in the same post you were bitching about wanting to have Dynamisis itself instanced so more people could be doing it? Wouldn't that mean that a lot more people per server would have maxed out relic weapons? Again, who are you to judge what should be kept rare and what shouldn't?

Pretty hypocritical of you I'd say. You can't have it both ways. Either the good items should be hard to get and rare, or the good items should be easy to get and the focus should be on enjoying difficult battles. Make a stance and stick with it BBQ.

Hey guys I don't agree with your opinions in this topic so I'll flame you like everyone else, cause its apparently the mature and appropriate thing to do.

As sarcastic as that is. I get your point. Problem is I'm easily baited. It would be easier if the forums had an ignore feature where people could choose which posters they could block out. Like a blacklist.

Till then, I'll apologize in advance for the times I get sucked into an argument by those who consume themselves with negativity about this game.

[little ninja]

Re: Battle System Adjustments (03/05/2007)

I dont complain about Bst much. Sure i do rant an rave about how stupid the Mpk patch was, How stupid i dont see a Bst update yet, an prob never will, An the fact my mobs go yellow an they get yanked on me.. LOL ohh an that one time i got thrown in jail for charming all the eyes in KRT. That was a funny 20 page argument.. Actually for the past year there have been about 1k threads across the forums about how to fix bst, What might make it both a better job in SKy, Dyn an pts. As well as to give us some of the solo power we once had.

Hyrist you stated all the jobs S.E said they were gonna fix, But silly you, you left out Bst.

Dyn isnt broken, the rewards are just to weak. Ive done windy god knows how many times, An ive only seen 1 nin af an 1 Bst af. To me right there is a problem. Something is wrong when you clear all the mobs til the boss, Then beat the boss, an clear things til you get booted an hardy get any AF, Thats always bothered me..

Sky isnt broken, I atill feel Ulli is broken, Instead of making those statues hold a rare/exe pop item. They screwed with ulli's timer, An put it into the hands of the RMT. Actually RMT have all pop windows down to a science, i followed them as they went from pop to pop, not really spending more then 30 mins camping them. This only makes me feel like they need to make all the items like the water, then use it on a ?? to pop the mob that holds the God pop item. This subtracts RMT from control in sky an puts into the players hands.. God drops are fine if you can give players more chances to fight them. These pop items suggestions are old an yet to be implemented.

HNMs is a big time sink an a bore fest for me. I did a bunch but havent in god knows how long so i have no clue how they are goin..

If you ask me It seems like S.E wanted players to cheat, Hate on one another. I mean how can you claim a mob within a 24-48 hour pop window. Most have spent 4+ years doing it by a cheat method. Not all but most of who i ran with did it.. Then when you lost claim, you tried to kill the other guys, An when it didnt work it was a slander fest til the next pop..

Im willing the bet the next S.E mmo will stear clear of hnms, an nms that give ubber drops..

[Hyrist]

Re: Battle System Adjustments (03/05/2007)

Hyrist you stated all the jobs S.E said they were gonna fix, But silly you, you left out Bst.

Caught me, yeah I forgot. I thought I had missed something.

Of all the jobs that need and update, BSTs sorely need it most. But I'm personally at a loss as to the direction!

Maybe if there were an additional job ability that would assist the strenght and accuracy of the pet or even share buffs, that would be helpful both in solo and party I would think.

I personally would love to work more often with Bsts in parties. The reason I get angry at the whiners of the bunch is simply, I feel for them already, I don't need to get it forcefully pounded in my head. It's like a kid who lost his arm in a tragic car accident. Yeah you feel for him, but after the 9000th time he's cried about it, it'll get on your nerves.

Ok, Maybe I do got one.

Alot of the emphasis of BSTs is their bond with their pet, and how much their strenght's work off of each other. So why not have a JA that would balance the TP pool between the two. Maybe call it "Pack Rage"

Consider that your Sic ability is limited to it's timer, Pack Rage can help you put their tp to better use by sharing it, much in the way the Drg 2hr provides a TP bonus to the DRG, but something more scaled down.

I donno, just brain storming here.

I don't play the job, so I'll ask the BSTs: without focusing it directly on soloing aspect, what would be a good pet orientated JA that would help you assist your preformance, both in and out of party?

[Clever Ninja]

Re: Battle System Adjustments (03/05/2007)

As sarcastic as that is. I get your point. Problem is I'm easily baited. It would be easier if the forums had an ignore feature where people could choose which posters they could block out. Like a blacklist.

Till then, I'll apologize in advance for the times I get sucked into an argument by those who consume themselves with negativity about this game.

Yea BBQ will do that to you. Murphie knows :3.

Frankly, although SE isn't doing that great of a job, with ALL the jobs this game has, all the zones and mobs to factor in, it's not incredibly easy to get an update in. There are always bugs around, and frankly the playerbase plays a major role in exactly how things get done. NIN was never supposed to be a tanking class, and BST wasn't designed for soloing, but the players made it that way.

Like, although I hate to bring WoW into this since its not a WoW forum, back in WoW there was a method of solo exping as a Warlock in Maraudon back in the day that would net you so much exp that it was ridiculous, faster than any power leveling could dream. This obviously wasn't an intended effect by Blizz, but players figured it out and exploited this tactic to get to 60 super easy. It has since then been patched though, and to my knowledge Blizz hasn't made the same mistake again and look for it whenever they create new zones(I'm assuming here, I quit before the expansion).

Although this doesn't excuse SE's blatant ignoring of several issues, including the BST ones. They stopped MPKing BST's but basically hurt BST's overall in the process, and haven't done anything to either A) make them play a larger role in parties or B) re-balanced them to solo better. Although honestly I have problems with the monster setup overall. If a mob checks Even Match to me at ANY LEVEL, it should be a close but a win-or-lose fight depending on how it went. I shouldn't be able to own EM's up to mid-teens, then suddenly in the 30's have problems with 'normal' EP-DC mobs(Beastmen BST/SMN pets aside, their weaksauce for some reason.) The scaling really needs to get looked at IMO, but at this stage of the game its probably unlikely.