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Feb. 21, 2006 (JST) Update Details

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  • #16
    Re: Feb. 21, 2006 (JST) Update Details

    Originally posted by Darkhound
    I lack to see why dont you agree on the Chocobo thing... can you please develop...
    Ok, didn't see Xalioniaf pick this part up so I'll give it a go. Basically inflation is loosely defined as too much money chasing too few goods. IE. last week there were 100 silk threads on the AH, and there was roughly 1 million gil in the hands of a random group of players. This week if there are also 100 silk threads on the AH but now there is 10 million gil in those players' hands, silk threads are going to be worth much much more. Simply because those players can now afford to pay much more for silk and will even be willing to buy at prices that would've seemed ridiculous the week before.

    What Xalioniaf means by "sinks" is things that take money out of the economy to combat inflation. This makes more sense if you look at it in terms of the opposite effect, "faucets", or things that put money into the economy. Like say beastmen, which always drop gil, or certain quests that have rewards in gil instead of items.

    If the amount of gil put in place by a faucet is taken out on the other end by a comparable sink, then the prices for goods and services across the server will remain unchanged over time. Chocobo prices were for a long time the best reliable sink in the game, as anyone willing to pay 3.5k for a chocobo at Mea was probably going to earn at least that in Onzozo or Bibiki Bay and this would prevent vast influxes of money from the sale of crystals/gil drops.

    As much as it sucks having to pay large sums of money to an NPC for something, doing so ensures that the prices of everything else remain relatively stable over time, as this ultimately offsets money put into the game by the faucets. This is why it's extremely unlikely SE will ever drop the price for Dynamis Hourglasses below 1 million gil. Every single Dynamis run is a way SE can make sure loose gil is being taken out of the economy.

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    • #17
      Re: Feb. 21, 2006 (JST) Update Details

      This is one of the worst ideas ever... It doesn't do much to address the core problem, yet also greatly affects legitimate characters.
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      • #18
        Re: Feb. 21, 2006 (JST) Update Details

        I don't like the Chocobo thing and I think 1 Million max is too much. It should be 1 Million max to one player. What I also found interesting was...

        Brenner is a competition played by two teams of 1 to 72 players each.
        Holy shit.

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        • #19
          Re: Feb. 21, 2006 (JST) Update Details

          If the amount of gil put in place by a faucet is taken out on the other end by a comparable sink, then the prices for goods and services across the server will remain unchanged over time.
          The economy in FFXI has been manipulated for a long time now, both by real players and RMTs. There have been unknown faucets in the game, in other words exploits and hacks. I know for a fact on my server people were duping to the tune of billions. They were stupid and got caught and some were banned. But many people involved were not banned. People walked away with tens and hundreds of millions of gil instantly created.

          And if some 16 year old brat can figure out how to dupe then I'm sure others could too, and that gil is then sold to the RMT outfits.

          The JP players set reasonable prices on items and exercised restraint and maintained that pricing for 2 years. The NA players were introduced and at every opportunity increase the prices on goods to the limit that the market will bare.

          There was steady inflation in the post NA PS2 release and it turned to hyper inflation with the vast amount of artifically created gil.

          2-4k for a chocobo is meaningless, when you have characters running around with hundreds of millions of gil. Professional gil farmers and NM campers are not effected by chocobo prices, the normal little guys who are trying to farm or level are hurt by those prices.
          Last edited by Rai; 02-20-2006, 12:58 PM.
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          • #20
            Re: Feb. 21, 2006 (JST) Update Details

            Originally posted by Blood Red Poet
            I don't like the Chocobo thing and I think 1 Million max is too much. It should be 1 Million max to one player. What I also found interesting was...

            Brenner is a competition played by two teams of 1 to 72 players each.
            Holy shit.
            I noticed that too, thats more players than BF2!


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            • #21
              Re: Feb. 21, 2006 (JST) Update Details

              Concept is good but 1mil is kinda low
              limit gil hurts players yea...

              On the other hand, it indirectly pushes people more to AH to do business.

              So in the end I give it a slight thumbs up. It helps more then it hurts...barely.

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              • #22
                Re: Feb. 21, 2006 (JST) Update Details

                Bravo SE. I think this is great.

                Everyone keeps claiming this hurts legit players... I recall some games where muling was considered bad..

                I don't believe in mules. If I fill up my mog house, then I have too much stuff (and I'm maintaining about 5 jobs). This doesn't really hurt legit players in my opinion (too much). The BCNM example is the only one I can understand right now. (But I'm sure someone can suggest some valid arguments).

                I don't know why a valid player would need to send that much gil (except BCNM's). I mean, why mule money to your mules? Can't you just keep all your gil on your main where you need it?

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                • #23
                  Re: Feb. 21, 2006 (JST) Update Details

                  All of S-E's heavy-handed responses to RMT ultimately only hurt the players. The RMT always find a way around it and keep on going while one more piece of what made the game enjoyable is slowly chipped away until the legitimate players are left playing a game that's so user-unfriendly as to kill any remaining fun.

                  Any old EQ players will be able to remember selling items behind the Jade Tavern in Freeport before the implementation of the Bazaar and that RMT in that game used to have to meet the person to trade gil to them. S-E seem to be de-evolving their game into something that was around five years ago to address a problem that exists because of their own poor game design. I ask you, why are the effects of RMT so pronounced on FFXI as opposed to WoW or EQ for example? And this isn't an excuse to turn this into a FFXI vs {insert game X here} response.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Feb. 21, 2006 (JST) Update Details

                    Originally posted by Grizzlebeard
                    I ask you, why are the effects of RMT so pronounced on FFXI as opposed to WoW or EQ for example? And this isn't an excuse to turn this into a FFXI vs {insert game X here} response.
                    Because FFXI is set up as being so gil driven. What is it, 90% of all good often used gear is AH'able? Hardly anything is rare/ex.
                    I RNG 75 I WAR 37 I NIN 38 I SAM 50 I Woodworking 92+2

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                    • #25
                      Re: Feb. 21, 2006 (JST) Update Details

                      Originally posted by Caspian
                      Because FFXI is set up as being so gil driven. What is it, 90% of all good often used gear is AH'able? Hardly anything is rare/ex.
                      RMT won't go away even if it weren't gil based.

                      Then it would be something else, like plvl, character buying, skill uping, or whatever game machanics a games wants to do.

                      You don't get away from cheap labor. It's common sense.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Feb. 21, 2006 (JST) Update Details

                        Originally posted by kuu
                        You don't get away from cheap labor. It's common sense.
                        Working with losts of people in the IT tech support field, I just had to laugh when I read this.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Feb. 21, 2006 (JST) Update Details

                          RMT is nothing new, remember Diablo II where people would spend hundreds of dollars on a set of armor. and Diablo II wasnt even a MMORPG.

                          These Anti-RMT may not stop them, but it will slow them down considerably. Having to meet in person opens alot of risk. A GM could easily setup a fake buy and close the account down. And they could keep doing this for a long time. Eventually RMT in the game would be reduce to a bare minimum.

                          the economy has already started to settle down and with these new additions im sure it will get even lower. I went to a Gil Selling website and they offer 2 million to 50 million gil. Id like to see them try and pass on that much gil without being noticed.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Feb. 21, 2006 (JST) Update Details

                            People complain when S-E does nothing, and yet they inevitably complain when S-E does something. Can't please everyone now can we.

                            If anyone has any grand and wonderful ideas that are pro/anti on this latest update, you can always submit them to S-E. Or if you have any all-encompassing plan on how to resolve RMT for FFXI forever, stroke your ego and send S-E a little message on how to do it.

                            Here's the US link:
                            https://secure.playonline.com/supportus/index.html

                            Here's the EU link:
                            https://secure.playonline.com/supporteu/index.html

                            Here's the JPN link:
                            https://secure.playonline.com/support/index.html


                            What? You don't want to talk to S-E? You really don't want to take a step in resolving the problem that is irking you? Oh, you just want to gripe cause you need attention. Thanks for the notice, I'll remember to disregard your postings for lack of serious content.

                            Some of us do take these issues seriously, and some of us have already been sending feedback to S-E on a regular basis on what needs to be done and how to do it. If you want to help out, you're more than welcome to pitch in to S-E.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Feb. 21, 2006 (JST) Update Details

                              Originally posted by klvino
                              People complain when S-E does nothing, and yet they inevitably complain when S-E does something. Can't please everyone now can we.

                              If anyone has any grand and wonderful ideas that are pro/anti on this latest update, you can always submit them to S-E. Or if you have any all-encompassing plan on how to resolve RMT for FFXI forever, stroke your ego and send S-E a little message on how to do it.

                              Here's the US link:
                              https://secure.playonline.com/supportus/index.html

                              Here's the EU link:
                              https://secure.playonline.com/supporteu/index.html

                              Here's the JPN link:
                              https://secure.playonline.com/support/index.html


                              What? You don't want to talk to S-E? You really don't want to take a step in resolving the problem that is irking you? Oh, you just want to gripe cause you need attention. Thanks for the notice, I'll remember to disregard your postings for lack of serious content.

                              Some of us do take these issues seriously, and some of us have already been sending feedback to S-E on a regular basis on what needs to be done and how to do it. If you want to help out, you're more than welcome to pitch in to S-E.
                              Thanks for posting that... you beat me to it. If you people against S-E's actions have a better idea then let it be known.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Feb. 21, 2006 (JST) Update Details

                                I admit that the 1mil gil sending is going to cause some problems for RMT. However it's going to be annoying for us as well. You do a KS30 Copy Cat run and 6 people make 4-6mil. Now you have to meet them some place. Which isn't a HUGE inconveniece, but it is. I'll deal with that announce to lower prices though.

                                I think they should have left the Chocobo thing alone. As much as I didn't like having to spend 6k for Chicken at Mea, it's a way to get gil out of player's hands, and off the server. It also makes people find better leveling spots because they don't want to spend that gil on Chicken in Tahrongi.

                                At that level you should be able to afford it, and we need a gil sink, so I didn't so much mind paying that.
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