FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

No, you became bitter and angry. I know I did, in other things, but considering I was 12 at the time, I wouldn't consider the "fuck them all, only worry about yourself" mentality to be as cool and mature as it sounds.

When you invest your time in people that prove not to be worth it, you're in the right to be bitter about it. I don't think you know my situation, Feba, and its long since over. I was simply saying that playing jobs for other people is a mistake. You play jobs only because you enjoy them, otherwise you're asking for a world of disappointment. If you play BRD because you like helping others, you're just asking to be used, its better you play something you truly like.

For me, COR was that nice, happy medium of personal gratification and support. So was SCH. RNG was my raw ego job.

If you can't be of help in your job, oh well. No sweat off my back, really.

[Karinya]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

People who play because they enjoy helping other people learn from that mistake eventually. I sure as hell did learn it with Bard.

What mistake? Thinking that assholes don't exist, or not knowing how to avoid wasting time on them?

But I'm not convinced SE will repeat that design with FFXIV.

I'm not sure exactly what design you're talking about here, but if you mean the way you're not locked in to previous choices, I really really hope you're wrong. The ability to explore different ways of playing WITHOUT rerolling a zillion alts and running them all through newbie quests is THE biggest strength of FFXI, IMO, and they would be fools not to repeat it. (What they shouldn't repeat is how they undermined their own game design with the merit system. Enmity merits are the most conspicuous offender, actually shooting you in the foot as soon as you change jobs.)

They made Bard so good people never enjoyed being the Bard at high level (the gimmick runs out fast), they just enjoyed having one (which gets old even more quickly).

Just because you don't enjoy something doesn't mean nobody enjoys it.

I'd like to see more variety for BRD, which I think could be helped by strengthening some of the situational songs like carols and status-resist songs and/or giving them separate slot(s) that don't conflict with the raw stats songs.

IMO the biggest design flaw in BRD is that the bland all-purpose songs (especially acc, haste, refresh) are too good, so there's rarely any point in being more dynamic or tactical in your song choices. Brute force is just better. But since those songs are so good, anything that was even *better* would be not merely overpowered (which BRD already is; it's just less of an overall balance problem than BLM or SAM because there are extremely diminishing returns to massing BRDs), but hideously overpowered. SE's nerfophobia stands in the way of making BRD a more interesting job, because in order to become more interesting, it needs to be nerfed in some aspects so that it can be buffed in others, so that ultimately you wouldn't sing the same songs all the time.

But there definitely are people who play BRD in endgame events and some of them apparently don't hate it like you do. So maybe my opinions on it don't matter -- the game can get along fine without me playing BRD.

You could make the same helpfulness/exploitation point about WHM, and healers generally (and there have been a lot of games that combined the healer and buffer roles, including FFXI to some extent). Should those roles be abolished too? Do you want a game where everyone is forced to be a hybrid of every role? I don't. Specialization is good for MMOs, and if you don't like being a pure buff class, then don't.

I think its better to give each job some unique support element rather than have a class specifically for it. COR and DNC were still support classes, but minus the downsides like BRD being pretty much helpless in party combat and being a one-note endgame job (ballad, ballad and more ballad).

First of all, COR and DNC *are* support classes, not were support classes.

Second, DNC is unfortunately minus a lot of the upsides too; they can't support mages worth crap (even compared to BRD!), their haste is gimpy (although the def/eva reductions actually pay off pretty big, but people don't appreciate them because they're invisible stats on a mob; it's an even worse version of the normal underappreciation of support classes), and they have that whole "start from 0 TP 0 FM" problem (although it can be fixed somewhat with /SAM or merits). On top of that, daggers suck. It's a cool idea for a job, but I'm not sure the actual job lives up to that potential (which may be why it's one of the rarest jobs in the game, even compared to BRD and COR).

COR is awesome -- some of the time. But they don't get Pianissimo or anything remotely like it, their buffs have a hellaciously long *shared* recast, they need a rare/ex item to get decent AoE, and oh yeah, there's also that whole randomness thing. And their direct DD is actually pretty mediocre (B skill and no real DD-supporting JAs or traits aside from SJ and whatever DD buffs they might happen to have on at a particular moment), it's just that because of the long recasts on PR and QD, they don't have much else to do most of the time so they might as well. (Of course, they contribute substantially more damage to a party if you count increases in damage that appears to be dealt by another player, but that's true of other support jobs too.)

Third, I think your LSs are full of idiots, which may be some of your problem. There are enough ways to recover MP now that ballad is pretty minor compared to the buffs bards can provide to DDs, but in addition to that there's Pianissimo Minne/Mambo for tanks (how many BRDs even bother to do that, even though Pianissimo has a recast of like 30 seconds?), and oh yeah, some of the best crowd control in the game, especially in Einherjar which has a ton of dark resistant mobs. Ballad ballad ballad is either a crappy BRD, or a crappy way of using the BRD.

BRD mage support is clearly inferior to COR and perhaps no better than SMN now, so anyone who's still putting them in mage-heavy parties has mental problems.

SCH, BLU and PUP also had support elements, but could also go on the offensive in their own ways.

Again with the past tense. I promise you, the servers are still running and people are still playing on them, and this will remain true for *at least* the first several years of FFXIV's operation, possibly longer.

If everyone wants to hurt things, I think everyone can pitch in on support in some way, rather than bank on a few jobs to do it exclusively. It would add some more teamplay to the mix, anyway.

At the cost of turning everyone into a hybrid whether they want to be or not. And as others have hinted at, people who want to hurt things might not take time, let alone other resources like MP or TP, to pitch in on support, even if their class is capable of it. WoW already has similar problems with DPS classes -- and sometimes even classes that were never intended to be primarily DPS -- ignoring the support functions their classes are capable of in order to pump out more damage. Hell, just look at some BLUs and you'll see the problems inherent in farming out some support functionality to a primarily DD class.

But why stop at buffs? Healers and tanks have the same kinds of issues, as I mentioned above. Few games have a job that is *as* focused on support roles as FFXI BRD (even EQ BRD wasn't, IIRC). But I think the separation of jobs, combined with the ability to change between them, is one of the strengths of FFXI, and something that I hope they keep and build on for FFXIV. Mixing everyone together into a bland mush would not be an improvement in my book.

[Kailea]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

But why stop at buffs? Healers and tanks have the same kinds of issues, as I mentioned above. Few games have a job that is *as* focused on support roles as FFXI BRD (even EQ BRD wasn't, IIRC). But I think the separation of jobs, combined with the ability to change between them, is one of the strengths of FFXI, and something that I hope they keep and build on for FFXIV. Mixing everyone together into a bland mush would not be an improvement in my book.

that is not what Omgwtfbbqkitten is saying at all....but it seems you have misread many of the quotes you have taken from him.... *shrugs*

I too at one point thought BRD was awesome and wanted to level it, until I saw how they where in endgame, and said "screw that" I leveled all my jobs for reasons of my own, I level DRG because I love DRG to death (Kain from FFIV) I leveled PLD because I enjoy protecting my party members (and I like Cecil). Leveled DNC because, well I liked the class in FFT, and I had lots of fun leveling it and playing with it. Now I am leveling RDM, and yes I know how it is endgame, but RDM was my job in beta, so I want to level it as well.

[Feba]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

I was simply saying that playing jobs for other people is a mistake.

That's really dependent on how much of a pain the job is. If you're going out and leveling BRD in 75 just to make someone happy, yeah, that's probably pretty fucked up (unless you've got the resources to take a job to 75 in a matter of weeks without too much trouble-- again, it's a matter of how much work you're putting into it). But if you happen to HAVE a 75 BRD you don't like that much, and you can help someone by using it, and you want to help them, there's nothing wrong with that.

I hated playing BLM, after I got to around 60. I just got so fed up with it. But there were times where I could help someone by using it, and I generally enjoyed helping out more than I hated being BLM. It was worth it. Likewise, when I leveled WHM, it helped to know that it would be useful to be able to raise-- I never would've had WHM as a viable subjob otherwise, because I simply hated the job to the core.

There's a difference between helping people for itself, helping people for personal benefit, and just being the support bitch. But if you're having fun, it's not a mistake.

[fairyoracle75]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

People who play because they enjoy helping other people learn from that mistake eventually. I sure as hell did learn it with Bard.

But I'm not convinced SE will repeat that design with FFXIV. They made Bard so good people never enjoyed being the Bard at high level (the gimmick runs out fast), they just enjoyed having one (which gets old even more quickly). I think its better to give each job some unique support element rather than have a class specifically for it. COR and DNC were still support classes, but minus the downsides like BRD being pretty much helpless in party combat and being a one-note endgame job (ballad, ballad and more ballad). SCH, BLU and PUP also had support elements, but could also go on the offensive in their own ways.

If everyone wants to hurt things, I think everyone can pitch in on support in some way, rather than bank on a few jobs to do it exclusively. It would add some more teamplay to the mix, anyway.

Wow BBQ you're cynical....

To me what makes FFXI so different is that it takes a community approach. It makes it so we have to help each other which isn't a weakness. All of the "problems" you mention are player created. Its the players who randomly decide that the only good job is X and refuse to build a leveling or merit party around any other set up. They are the ones that "force" you to play it.

Who decided the only place worth leveling was chaining stupid pink birds because maximum exp is all that matters? The players did that. Shocking SE didn't close off all the other areas we used to level in its the players that don't want to go there. Personally I'd like a little more variety and take a little less exp for that variety but I do what the party wants which is pretending to be a WHM with refresh while they kill pink birds. I solo and do Besieged and such though when the thought is too painful though so they don't control me.

Also, not everyone plays for endgame. I may actually do very little endgame. There's about 3 or 4 pieces of gear I want for my RDM and her fully merited and I'm done. No one can "force" me to stay in an endgame shell just to "help them kill" the same god or NM over and over when I'm tired of it. There's a lot more to do in game than just endgame. I have several jobs I want to 75 with Nyzul weapons and maybe some salvage gear (which people are always doing pick-up pts for) so I'd rather jump to that than cow-tow to a bunch of whiners that only would want me to chainspell-stun-stun-stun over and over forever.

I'd much rather take my fully merited RDM soloing and have fun soloing in a level 8 beseiged, a campaign battle and soloing some NM. No one can "force" you to play the way they want you to unless you let them.

[Ziero]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

People who play because they enjoy helping other people learn from that mistake eventually. I sure as hell did learn it with Bard.

I haven't. But then again I know my limits. I never joined any big HNMLSs because I knew I wouldn't be able to stand being around a bunch of cut throat, greedy douches for extended periods of time, and I certainly wasn't about to let them dictate how often and at what times I would play. But I have been with the same social LS for over 5 years now and I always help out people who need it when I can because I like to help. Whether it be that person I've known for years or that guy who just showed up last week, I like helping others and encourage them to do the same. I'm playing this game for fun, and god dammit, I'm gonna have fun my way. If that means I don't get that super shiney +1 piece of god gear that slightly enhances my character's performance, well then so be it.

One of the reasons I stuck with FFXI as long as I have was because of the lack of "consequences" in my choices. The ability to be every job, fight every mob, level every craft and travel all over the world all on one character. It helped foster that attachment to a virtual avatar that most MMOs don't achieve while at the same time keeping your options open and explorable. In games like WoW, you pick one class for your character and that's it. If you ever want to do anything else you have to start all over with a brand new name and a brand new face with absolutely nothing. But in FFXI, if I decided to stop being a melee and go level a mage job, I was free to do exactly that. In an RPish sense, it was almost as if my character himself was growing and learning as he started all over again at level 1, yet at the same time he still retained all the knowledge and experiences he's acquired to that point.

FFXIV seems to want to expand upon that concept and refine it even further, as we'll still be allowed to switch professions and may even possibly retain skills and traits learned by training other classes.

Of course, once again I have to state that neither system would really be affected too much by the addition of more races. In fact, if anything, the system you seem to prefer would actually gain more from having new races added. If there were more "consequences" to choosing a race and a class, ones you could only experience after having played the game for a while, then having more additional races would just mean it would be easier to choose a new race and a new class to try out. Though I'm personally still in the camp of having races mean *less* to gameplay and being more about aesthetics, since it's much nicer to be able to pick a race you like the looks of without having it negatively affect any specific professions you may choose.

[CrimsonDeath]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

Wow BBQ you're cynical....

To me what makes FFXI so different is that it takes a community approach. It makes it so we have to help each other which isn't a weakness. All of the "problems" you mention are player created. Its the players who randomly decide that the only good job is X and refuse to build a leveling or merit party around any other set up. They are the ones that "force" you to play it.

Who decided the only place worth leveling was chaining stupid pink birds because maximum exp is all that matters? The players did that. Shocking SE didn't close off all the other areas we used to level in its the players that don't want to go there. Personally I'd like a little more variety and take a little less exp for that variety but I do what the party wants which is pretending to be a WHM with refresh while they kill pink birds. I solo and do Besieged and such though when the thought is too painful though so they don't control me.

Also, not everyone plays for endgame. I may actually do very little endgame. There's about 3 or 4 pieces of gear I want for my RDM and her fully merited and I'm done. No one can "force" me to stay in an endgame shell just to "help them kill" the same god or NM over and over when I'm tired of it. There's a lot more to do in game than just endgame. I have several jobs I want to 75 with Nyzul weapons and maybe some salvage gear (which people are always doing pick-up pts for) so I'd rather jump to that than cow-tow to a bunch of whiners that only would want me to chainspell-stun-stun-stun over and over forever.

I'd much rather take my fully merited RDM soloing and have fun soloing in a level 8 beseiged, a campaign battle and soloing some NM. No one can "force" you to play the way they want you to unless you let them.

This is the truth. Until I quit I played solo THF, and DD-NIN because it was fun not because it was the cool thing to do. Some people play to do other things than maximize potential. While I understand the want of some to number crunch and obtain optimization, those are player made SE merely provides you the information to draw your own conclusions from.

Either way, back on topic, I'm glad there is more customization than just face/hair(A+B), and size. I'd like to see the ability to change skin color, hair color, hair style, eye color, face, height, and maybe some accessories (earrings, eye patches, hair bands etc etc). More customization = more diversity, and in the gaming world you can never have too much of that. To customize a character means to immerse yourself in it, so the more I can change to fit my wants the happier I am.


Off Topic: I was reading the info on Beta and saw that the Beta Signup for now, is only for PC. That made me a sad cookie because I am fairly sure my computer cannot run it how they want it to. (4GB Ram, 1GB Nvdia 9600, Dual Core 3.2ghz, 7200 rpm hdd) Oh well, guess more time to wait for PS3 Beta. Unless they need a couple testers to find out how shitty a computer can run FF14 lol.

[Armando]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

Some people play to do other things than maximize potential. While I understand the want of some to number crunch and obtain optimization, those are player made SE merely provides you the information to draw your own conclusions from.

I can count the number of times SE has released useful information from which conclusions can be drawn in one hand. I need both hands and my toes to count the times SE has said something misleading though.

SE should take a few notes from Valve when it comes to releasing info and not being insanely vague about everything.

Unrelated to the above but there is a difference between leveling a job because you like the fact that it revolves around helping others, and leveling a job because a select group of people would find it convenient if you did. I like PLD because it protects other people, I didn't pick PLD because my LS thought it would be convenient. BBQ's statement on learning the mistake of being generous should refer strictly to the latter, but it was very ambiguously worded.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

Wow BBQ you're cynical....

To me what makes FFXI so different is that it takes a community approach. It makes it so we have to help each other which isn't a weakness. All of the "problems" you mention are player created. Its the players who randomly decide that the only good job is X and refuse to build a leveling or merit party around any other set up. They are the ones that "force" you to play it.

Making BRD so awesome that everyone wants it but no one wants to play it is a problem in and of itself. We could argue that COR is also too awesome for its own good, but it tends to scare people away with the price tag more than the lack of wanting to play it. And having no Haste, which not having will rank you behind anyone that does (except SMN).

But your "pro" just became the con. FFXI lives in a state of mindless adherence to particular styles of plays and paths because we're so reliant on each other. The "community approach" as you call it is far more narrow than the game's design aspires to be. And the more group-oriented it gets, the narrower it gets.

The only jobs that were even going off the beaten paths post-ToA were the jobs not created for solo, but assumed and expected to solo for their EXP. Then everyone wanted in, so SE put in FoV, which is the only thing that has ever gotten people to stray off the beaten path.

And with all the diverse and practical job combinations you could implement in a party, we have more mindless adherence. The majority of RNG still go /NIN for what little advantages it provides. CORs brainlessly go /WHM and /WHM only. BRDs will go /NIN from level 24 because people are stupid enough to let them get away with it and they'll get to 75 never having touched /WHM.

And it just goes on and on.

For a game with so much freedom to play how you'd like, people approach it with a very linear mentality. They pass up the opportunity to do something to expand how they play those jobs. Unless an exploit emerges, then all aboard the bandwagon

This also flies in the face of the "specializing races limits styles of play" argument. People limit themselves no matter what race they use in FFXI, so I think placing some emphasis on race to force the issue of effective play might actually be for the better.

In WoW, I"d have a few options for races per job, each of them also having racial traits to distinguish themselves. While a Dwarven Hunter might have to wear leather armor for the first 50 levels of his career, if he so chooses, after 50 he can wear plate armor and he's the only kind of hunter than can don heavy plate armor.

Other hunter races can specialize in guns, but he specializes the most highly first and has access to guns first. While other races specialize in Bow or Crossbow first and have an advantage on him there, but he can learn to use those down the road

Combat-wise, that's not far removed from what FFXI does, but there is a layer of distinction as the character grows, in the dwarf's case he can improve his defenses compared to other hunters.

This is more of what I'm getting at.

Naturally there's also the talent system and it faces similar pratfalls to FFXI's merit and subjob system. But its those little things the races can do to distinguish themselves in some fashion that I like and it wouldn't hurt FFXIV to have some of that.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

For a game with so much freedom to play how you'd like, people approach it with a very linear mentality. They pass up the opportunity to do something to expand how they play those jobs.

Unless you did more than just tolerate a higher-level Red Mage in the front line in the past forever, your point rings hollow. . . . well, then again, this is assuming you've ever been with a half-competent front-line Red Mage ever since Hyrist or that one Mithra . . . "Starfox" was it?

[Armando]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

This also flies in the face of the "specializing races limits styles of play" argument. People limit themselves no matter what race they use in FFXI, so I think placing some emphasis on race to force the issue of effective play might actually be for the better.

I'd rather not.

This goes directly against being able to change jobs on a whim, and there ARE people out there that don't just hop on the first bandwagon they see.

Of course it's damned hard to find an effective new way to play when most options have been exhausted, until either new options are introduced or the game is understood better. There isn't a whole lot left to crack open on FFXI now that we have Magic Accuracy down. I would argue that the way mains and subs interact (e.g. WAR/BLM's half-capped skills) does a far better job of limiting your options than the players do.

[Ziero]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

This also flies in the face of the "specializing races limits styles of play" argument. People limit themselves no matter what race they use in FFXI, so I think placing some emphasis on race to force the issue of effective play might actually be for the better.

And I think making it so the game gives min/max players even more things to focus on and complain about would be moving in the wrong direction. In your example, players would pick a Dwarf hunter not because they like Dwarves and the lore and culture surrounding them, they pick Dwarves because it provides a statistical advantage. It's them saying "screw the story, only numbers matter", and it's that kind of mentality that sucks the fun out of games like this imo.

With FFXI, when people ask "which race should I be?" the most common answer is "Pick the one you like the most", and that's how it should be. The flavor, the visuals and the story behind each race should be the real reasons why someone picks one for their character, not the numerical advantage that they could receive at endgame.

[fairyoracle75]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

Making BRD so awesome that everyone wants it but no one wants to play it is a problem in and of itself. We could argue that COR is also too awesome for its own good, but it tends to scare people away with the price tag more than the lack of wanting to play it. And having no Haste, which not having will rank you behind anyone that does (except SMN).__________________

Again its not the job that's the problem or even SE. Do you really mean to say here if SE made the jobs suck and be more limited it would solve people's sheep mentality? Example once you hit 75 you can do more as a BRD than play one song in Dynamis. You can refuse to go and still play BRD in other things. SE isn't forcing you to do anything or causing problems to force you to do anything.

But your "pro" just became the con. FFXI lives in a state of mindless adherence to particular styles of plays and paths because we're so reliant on each other. The "community approach" as you call it is far more narrow than the game's design aspires to be. And the more group-oriented it gets, the narrower it gets.

No its not a con because all of my friends I play with I group with because they aren't mindless sheep and like to have fun. At one time my friends' and I put together a static party with my friend's BLM healing. No one I play with forces me to do anything. If you choose to hang out with jerks that take nothing but advantage of you its not SE's doing.

The only jobs that were even going off the beaten paths post-ToA were the jobs not created for solo, but assumed and expected to solo for their EXP. Then everyone wanted in, so SE put in FoV, which is the only thing that has ever gotten people to stray off the beaten path.__________________

Not so the above party I spoke of was before FOV and I soloed on RDM. I've always been a "maverick". I managed to melee past leve 30 on RDM in parties with strangers. Why? I was good at my job and did everything I needed to do. I debuffed, buffed and supported healing while meleeing so they didn't care. It wasn't until 50 I went totally backline. I've also always soloed for some of my exp pre FOV on RDM. My friends similiarly have always soloed on their jobs some pre FOV. So your entire argument is wrong since its based on the assumption "the only jobs that were even going off the beaten paths post-ToA were the jobs not created for solo, but assumed and expected to solo for their EXP".

And with all the diverse and practical job combinations you could implement in a party, we have more mindless adherence. The majority of RNG still go /NIN for what little advantages it provides. CORs brainlessly go /WHM and /WHM only. BRDs will go /NIN from level 24 because people are stupid enough to let them get away with it and they'll get to 75 never having touched /WHM.

For a game with so much freedom to play how you'd like, people approach it with a very linear mentality. They pass up the opportunity to do something to expand how they play those jobs. Unless an exploit emerges, then all aboard the bandwagon.

Again that's the player's fault not SE. Not all players are like this. Many of us don't let the brainless majority ruin thier gaming experience though.

This also flies in the face of the "specializing races limits styles of play" argument. People limit themselves no matter what race they use in FFXI, so I think placing some emphasis on race to force the issue of effective play might actually be for the better.

The beauty of FFXI is that it is the people that limit themselves and not the game. Those of us that don't want to limit ourselves are free not to do so also.

In WoW, I"d have a few options for races per job, each of them also having racial traits to distinguish themselves. While a Dwarven Hunter might have to wear leather armor for the first 50 levels of his career, if he so chooses, after 50 he can wear plate armor and he's the only kind of hunter than can don heavy plate armor.

Other hunter races can specialize in guns, but he specializes the most highly first and has access to guns first. While other races specialize in Bow or Crossbow first and have an advantage on him there, but he can learn to use those down the road

Combat-wise, that's not far removed from what FFXI does, but there is a layer of distinction as the character grows, in the dwarf's case he can improve his defenses compared to other hunters.

This is more of what I'm getting at.

Naturally there's also the talent system and it faces similar pratfalls to FFXI's merit and subjob system. But its those little things the races can do to distinguish themselves in some fashion that I like and it wouldn't hurt FFXIV to have some of that.
__________________

Comparing FFXI and FFVI to WOW is like comparing apples with oranges. WOW and most MMO force you to only play certain jobs on certain races and FFXI doesn't and FFXVI will do so any less. Most friends I know prefer mithra for NIN but I've tried it on all races leveling it for subs on alts and I prefer it on Taru. I am free to try leveling it more on my Taru alt if I wish and no matter how much you try to level an elf only job on a dwarf in WOW you can't. I think WOW, and most other MMO, limit their players more than FFXI.

[Malacite]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

Of course it's damned hard to find an effective new way to play when most options have been exhausted, until either new options are introduced or the game is understood better. There isn't a whole lot left to crack open on FFXI now that we have Magic Accuracy down. I would argue that the way mains and subs interact (e.g. WAR/BLM's half-capped skills) does a far better job of limiting your options than the players do.

Am I the only one who's always felt that this was XI's greatest failing?

Now, I'm not proposing that a level 75 WAR/BLM be as effective at nuking as a BLM main, but one of the things I absolutely loved about FF5 and FFT was the flexibility in the jobs system. It's always bothered me that certain jobs like PLD and DRK couldn't effectively use mage subs to enhance their magical sides.

By the same token, mage classes generally don't gain a huge benefit from other mage subs either. Now, what I mean by this is a RDM/WHM will gain access to some exclusive spells that will aid it in healing etc, but they still don't become a super-good healer. I guess what I mean is, just subbing WHM doesn't allow you to cure better etc etc just gives you some more MP, MND and some spells; it doesn't enhance the healing ability RDM already has.

I'm sure it was all done for the sake of game balance, but it would have been nice to have some more flexibility. Back when a friend of mine started up he really wanted to be SAM/BLM to magic burst off his own skillchains, but of course the game doesn't really work that way which is a shame.

I'll be curious to see how XIV will handle skills, as Tanaka said something like (don't quote me I'm paraphrasing here) we'd be able to use any skill we've learned as any class, but not necessarily as well as we could if we were actually the class said skills come from. Again going back to XI, it'd be freaking awesome if say a DRK/BLM could pop off a Thunder 4 during a skillchain for an MB (at great expense to his/her already limited MP pool)


>.> this turned into more of a rant than I meant it to lol but I'm going to make one last point and that is I would LOVE to see them implement a job system that used a talent tree similar to Diablo II. Using DRG as an example, you could have 1 tech tree for Wyvern Abilities, another for Jumps, and your final tree would be Spear/Lance abilities. At least in this manner two people could play the same job but have vastly different skill sets (the merit system is too limited and only applies to end game)

I'm really hoping XIV will allow for some cool customization with it's skill system.

[Kailea]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

Oh god I hate talent/skill/job/class trees -.-

(this is how I feel about them, what I say is of course not fact)

Tree's make me feel like the devs think I am stupid (its to simple)
I hate how limited trees make players, because there are set tree paths, and thats it
Almost everyone and there mother do skill trees -.-