Final Fantasy XIV Linkshell Recruiting

[Syno23]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Linkshell Recruiting

Hello everyone,

I would like to state that our linkshell Rapture has been active since June 1st, 2009 and we are becoming more active by the day. We have many users who log onto our chatrooms, we play other MMORPGs together, and we are getting to know each other. Don't be lonely, join us today, and be part of something fantastic, something you can call your HOME!

I have updated the recruitment thread to let you know what Rapture is all about, what our values are, and what we hope to bring you in FFXIV Online.

[Syno23]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Linkshell Recruiting

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to let you all know that we are still recruiting. I know many of the starter linkshells have declined and shutdown, but we are still here, 215 registered users strong and growing day by day.

For those who haven't seen our thread to check out our website and help us become a stronger community. With each passing day, we gain more talent and dexterity. Our members are filled with new and inspiring ideas. Rapture is becoming more of a success day by day....

If any of you are still interested you can check out our website at:

Rapture- A Final Fantasy XIV LinkShell

And, our forums at:

Rapture Forums - Home

[Syno23]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Linkshell Recruiting

I bent over backwards, went to bat for people in LSes where you got out what you put in, did merited with our PLDs and BLMs to ensure their EXP was capped out and that they got merits, even helped people with missions. Got very little out of my endgame shells compared to what I put in.

And for that, I get backstabbed.

With the exception of my core friends on Odin and Titan, along with two German players, just about everyone else has used and cast me aside. That's OK, though, because that's when I stop going to bat for people or going out of my way to improve the situations of an LS. That's when my help becomes more exclusive and I may choose to skip out on events so I can do something offline, even though I really could have played.

So I want a system that isn't going to follow this naive concept that players can be totally trusted. I don't want a system that rewards flakes that don't attend or want to claim something so they can "retire" that job. How many Duelist's Chapeaus have gone down the drain on that one? I don't want a system that forgets to count the attendance of various members. I don't want a system where loot priority is ever up for debate and the rules are made up as you go along.

An internal system will get around all these issues. The abuses to such a system would be limited and the consequences of poor leadership would be clear. If they want to make the guild a social thing, have a feature where you can disable the DKP. If big events are what the players want, have the feature enabled.

I agree, you put a lot into a linkshell, but barely get a little out of it. I suppose it could be just luck, but at the same time it could be the fact that you were helping new players.

But either way, I agree with the point that they need a new linkshell system in FFXIV. Hopefully one that those who put a lot of time into building it will get the most rewards while the flakes get nothing lol.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Linkshell Recruiting

There's one system that the *current* system does implement, namely, "Anyone who is there (and for certain content, in the main alliance) may lot anything that drops; people who are not there get nothing". Whatever else you can say about this system, it certainly rewards attendance (except for people who are there for most of a fight, but d/c before the kill, a situation a built-in point system would have to address somehow).

There are items that are not rare/ex that can be held and awarded later to people that weren't even there for the event.

[Karinya]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Linkshell Recruiting

So I want a system that isn't going to follow this naive concept that players can be totally trusted.

Uh, what? The current system follows the concept that members should keep an eye on the leadership and leave the shell if they are getting screwed. What does that have to do with "players can be totally trusted"?

Someone has to have the power to set rules or there won't be any rules. Someone has to have the power to give out points or there won't be any points.

I don't want a system that rewards flakes that don't attend or want to claim something so they can "retire" that job. How many Duelist's Chapeaus have gone down the drain on that one? I don't want a system that forgets to count the attendance of various members. I don't want a system where loot priority is ever up for debate and the rules are made up as you go along.

An internal system will get around all these issues. The abuses to such a system would be limited and the consequences of poor leadership would be clear. If they want to make the guild a social thing, have a feature where you can disable the DKP. If big events are what the players want, have the feature enabled.

How will an internal system get around any of these issues? Forbid a shell from ever changing its rules without breaking the shell? Or have one set of rules that all shells have to follow whether they like it or not? Count attendance automatically? (How does the system count late arrivers, people who d/c before the end, people who log off after the boss on weeknight Dynamis runs because they have work/school the next day?) Which events count attendance at all, and how much? Do points from Dynamis transfer to Limbus and vice versa if the same shell does both? How much does each drop cost, and can those costs ever be changed, and if so, by who? Does a player who leaves for a long time and then comes back lose any points, and if so, how many? Can a player be penalized in points for behavior that harms the run, such as going AFK, aggroing the wrong mobs, waking avatars or other slept mobs, etc.?

Different shells are going to want to answer these questions in different ways. A built in system is going to be too inflexible to allow that variety, or so flexible it can be abused to do all the things you described. Don't put your trust in a computer to protect you from abuse of power. Only the membership holding the leaders accountable can do that (or finding more honest leaders, but see my earlier point about dishonest people drawn to opportunities for dishonesty).

Real shells change their rules and adjust people's point totals for legitimate reasons as well as illegitimate ones. Short of having GMs review all rule change attempts (totally impractical and they don't have the context anyway), a built-in system can't distinguish between the two.


There's one system that the *current* system does implement, namely, "Anyone who is there (and for certain content, in the main alliance) may lot anything that drops; people who are not there get nothing". Whatever else you can say about this system, it certainly rewards attendance (except for people who are there for most of a fight, but d/c before the kill, a situation a built-in point system would have to address somehow). Most people aren't happy with that system because the same person can get lucky or unlucky repeatedly, and greedy jerks can lot things they have no actual use for, and people who show up but lose the lot or don't see the drop they wanted or didn't even want anything from that run get no preference on future runs. So they make up their own rules and penalize people who break the made-up rules by using the system's ability to lot when the LS's additional rules say they shouldn't. How would a more elaborate built-in system change that? Inevitably someone is going to believe that the system is wrong about something, and adjust point totals or override the system's lotting priority rules and tell people not to lot because they think their method is fairer than the built-in one.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Linkshell Recruiting

I bent over backwards, went to bat for people in LSes where you got out what you put in, did merited with our PLDs and BLMs to ensure their EXP was capped out and that they got merits, even helped people with missions. Got very little out of my endgame shells compared to what I put in.

And for that, I get backstabbed.

With the exception of my core friends on Odin and Titan, along with two German players, just about everyone else has used and cast me aside. That's OK, though, because that's when I stop going to bat for people or going out of my way to improve the situations of an LS. That's when my help becomes more exclusive and I may choose to skip out on events so I can do something offline, even though I really could have played.

So I want a system that isn't going to follow this naive concept that players can be totally trusted. I don't want a system that rewards flakes that don't attend or want to claim something so they can "retire" that job. How many Duelist's Chapeaus have gone down the drain on that one? I don't want a system that forgets to count the attendance of various members. I don't want a system where loot priority is ever up for debate and the rules are made up as you go along.

An internal system will get around all these issues. The abuses to such a system would be limited and the consequences of poor leadership would be clear. If they want to make the guild a social thing, have a feature where you can disable the DKP. If big events are what the players want, have the feature enabled.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Linkshell Recruiting

The farthest I've gone to is going to bat for newer members who haven't yet received anything significant; often times I would pass on gear in deference to newer members to make them feel welcome, and encouraged others to do so as well.

Ya, I've done this too. It's rather selfish of me though because it makes me happy to see someone get something and be excited about it. I often go to bat for the newer members that have been putting forth the effort and deserve a nice goodie. One of my fondest memories was when an Ebody finally dropped and I went to bat for another member over the older member that the leader wanted. He had not been to events in months and the first event back he expected to get it if it dropped and over more dedicated members. The older member didn't get it but I was told in /t's that next claim if it dropped that the flakey older member WAS getting it regardless.

[Kailea]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Linkshell Recruiting

Even though my LS was very fare, I never really got "the good stuff" because we always low manned EVERYTHING, but its because we had to, our member base was not that high ;p We would just make a little over full alliance for things like Dynamis, and that made it hard for me to find LS mates to do CoP with because many helped new people to do it, only for them to leave to another LS almost right after doing it -.-

[Icemage]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Linkshell Recruiting

This tends to be the way most ls's do things and the people within the inner circle are blinded to this fact. Though I will say that I spoke up and championed for other members and got a few pieces wrestled away from the inner circle. Though it doesn't bode too well for me when I do it. LOL

I don't think I've ever been in the "inner circle", but I never really saw too much favoritism of any sort; if anything people that showed up a lot and spent a lot of time at events did get "some" preference for gear, but that's not unexpected nor unreasonable. My LS keeps track of all significant drops listed by date and who the item(s) went to, posted for all members to see, so it's easy to tell when there was an imbalance.

Now I can choose someone else but its obvious that the leader wants me to choose him/her and if I don't things probably won't be too pleasant for me within the ls. So damned if I do and damned if I don't.

I can honestly say I've never had the displeasure of having something like that happen.

The farthest I've gone to is going to bat for newer members who haven't yet received anything significant; often times I would pass on gear in deference to newer members to make them feel welcome, and encouraged others to do so as well.


Icemage

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Linkshell Recruiting

My LS keeps track of it with a constantly updated wishlist, and allows wishlisting for gear that is not the jobs you bring most often to events, with the only stipulation being that any job you wish to get endgame gear for be at least at level 70+. Those desires are factored in when making decisions about who gets what gears.

This is how most of the endgame ls's that I was in did it too and most of them failed at it miserably. My last ls had wishlists with the same guidelines. Some people felt if it was on their wishlist than this would mean they would eventually be considered for that item if it dropped. The leader saw wishlists as a way of seeing what events needed to be done by the amount of requests for gear from that event. The wishlist meant nothing other than that. I kept detailed wishlists for all events, per the leaders request. It took a considerable amount of time to compile and it took time to keep updated daily. In the end, the lists were just bullshit since they were never used and gear was given out mainly to the oldest most ass kissing members anyways. This tends to be the way most ls's do things and the people within the inner circle are blinded to this fact. Though I will say that I spoke up and championed for other members and got a few pieces wrestled away from the inner circle. Though it doesn't bode too well for me when I do it. LOL

Sure, there's sometimes a certain level of favoritism to shell leaders, but too much of that tends to poison the atmosphere, and I don't know of too many great shells where the members willingly sacrifice that much to keep their shell together. More often what I see is leaders will grab the occasional important item if it's pertinent to their primary job(s) since they're often at events, and then will "pick up the spares" when there's decent gear that no one else wants, but that's hardly what I'd call abuse of power.

I've been in ls's where the leader has abused this power, but more often than not they abuse their power by giving out equips to their favorites. (i.e. rl friends/relatives, people who kiss their ass on a constant basis, etc.) Thats where the abuse is most blatant. There is always an "inner circle" and if you aren't in it then don't expect to get any of the good drops anytime soon. Or I always like the the ploy the leader used to use with me when an item would drop that he/she wanted. They would /t me and say "Well I can't decide who should get it because I really want the item that dropped but if I take it then people will say that I'm being greedy. It's not the truth though because its been a long time since I've gotten a decent drop from any event but I just don't want to stir things up. So could you choose?" Now I can choose someone else but its obvious that the leader wants me to choose him/her and if I don't things probably won't be too pleasant for me within the ls. So damned if I do and damned if I don't.

[Raydeus]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Linkshell Recruiting

Rather than a base I'd like to have an airship to travel/use as my MH.




Then you could fill positions for engineering, tactical, science, etc...

...no wait, wrong MMORPG.

[Feba]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Linkshell Recruiting

LS halls could be a nice feature, but I have to question the practicality of it.

1- FFXI doesn't have a ton of uses for meeting people in person. Basically trading is it if you're in town. This is why that coffee shop in Aht Urgan never took off (at least, on my server)
2- FFXI doesn't lock you into your LS. If you have an LS hall, you should definitely have access to your mog room from it, and it should be considered your main residence (with furniture and so on). But how do you decide which is your 'main' LS to join? What if an LS requires their members to bunk with them?
3- The real functionality that people want (shared inventory, a meeting place, etc.) is not nearly as easy to implement, and not really in high enough demand to warrant it.

And what would an LS hall have? Trophies? LS members would want to wear the equipment, generally, not leave it on mannequins or on a wall. New, LS-hall only furniture could be added, I guess; you could have a Behemoth rug, or NM heads mounted on the wall. But that has nothing more than cosmetics going for it. What sort of advantage would there be to showing up at an LS hall instead of using LS chat, or some other meeting point in town? A flexible meeting point is superior for a place to group up; LS chat is just as private.

LS system improvements would be better. Enabling shell holders to have more control over permissions, for example. How about shell holders being able to make LS pearls 'split' from afar, so that a pearl holder can pass one to their friends, without having to bring a sack/shellholder into it? Or allowing people to carry around pearl sacks, but without giving them the ability to kick pearls? Why not give sacks the power to kick other sacks? Why not allow a shell to transform a sack into a shell, and transform itself into a sack (effectively transferring ownership)?

All of those would be much, much easier to implement than LS halls, and would be far more useful.

[godsaiyan]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Linkshell Recruiting

I've always hoped we could have bases for our linkshells

I agree with you here mate. Even if the base was say like a MH but slightly larger, say a main hall and then smaller rooms for people, that would still be cool.

In more detail say everyone has access to the main hall, but only you have access to your room, unless invited of course

[Karinya]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Linkshell Recruiting

my only endgame LS I have ever been in, used a point system, and it was great, and very fare, the points where even kept on a webpage on the LS homepage, for us to see where we stood, compared to other members.

That's how my limbus LS handles Homam and Nashira. Wishlists and point standings are maintained on the shell's website where any member can look at them.

Coins are split at the end of every run (the remainder goes to an LS bank that pays for soap on boss runs) and AF+1 pieces use a comment system (I don't know if there's an actual rule that you can only comment jobs you are 74 in, or just a very strong social norm, but it's pretty obvious that lotting against a player who is 74 in that job when you are not, or not at least really close, is kind of a jerkish thing to do, so basically nobody does it).

The leaders don't get any special advantage per se, but since they show up a lot and have been in the shell for a long time, they do have a lot of points. (Ditto some of the reliable non-leader members that have been in the shell for a long time, of course.) I don't trust leaders who want to give themselves more rewards than everyone else gets - if the amount of rewards ordinary members get isn't good enough for them, why should it be good enough for me?

Fortunately, since one of the leaders is a SMN and a THF, they don't have the bias against people with multiple jobs that I've seen in some endgame shells. (Because it isn't harsh enough to have to collect twice as much gear, some people want to make it take *more* than twice as long by imposing extra restrictions or penalties or whatever. Screw that.) Lots of members have several jobs and bring whatever the leaders ask them to bring that night, but it doesn't affect their loot rights or how many points they earn (although, of course, if you're looking for multiple pieces from both sets, you're going to need a lot of points).

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Linkshell Recruiting

"Need" is a line that can totally be blurred by the job system FFXI presents. Anyone can be any job, so anyone can "need" anything. Take away the ability to be any job (or just make it really difficult) and much of that issue goes away. To accomplish this in FFXI, an LS would have to enforce what players said what was their "main" and hold them to it.

But there are other ways to keep these kinds of attitudes in check - FFXI just doesn't employ them. Weapon/armer degradation is one surefire way of doing that. Not everyone is going to scramble for a situational piece of gear or a situational weapon if it requires maintenance. You don't see everyone scrambling to build relics, after all. Tremendous investment there.

Taking damage would have financial impacts as well, affording melee and tanks the lionshare of loots. Of course, this would mean FFXI would need general loot that was worth a damn. This would mean, however, that tanking and using consumable weapons would no longer be the charity FFXI players expect.

Would mages get the short end of the deal? They sure would. In FFXI, however, they tend to benefit the most from the current system. While the rest of us are downing foods, ammo or tools updating gear and weapons, mages don't really do so much of that by contrast.

Weapon and Armor degradation would also place a gilsink into the system.

Just one specific aspect of game design and attitudes can change quickly. In Everquest Online Adventures things went exactly as I described them, other MMOs as well.

And you know what? When something useable for my Enchanter dropped, I tended to get it. Its the least your party can do when you're doing crowd control, refreshing mana and whatnot. Tanks need the most loot for repairs, melees need repairs as well. Mages just needed enough to cover minor damage. If I happened to get something useful for me, great, I'd get it. No fuss, no squabbling and no point system.

In a good guild, the community mentality of "need before greed" would usually carry over. You could only be one class, so if you were the class it was hard to dispute need. Those that just "needed" to sell any loot that dropped - those people's names got around. It just wasn't done.

JPs that played also found their own replacements. Rare sight, but they did play the PC version of Everquest.