E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

[Murphie]

re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

Well of course they are going to have gil, chocobos and jobs. It's final fucking fantasy.

[jenova_9]

re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

but you'd think things would carry over that worked?

like nostalgic FF jobs,

the currency called gil like every Final Fantasy

Chocobos

Final Fantasy magic

and the fact the races look inspired by the FFXI races at the very least.

let's take Final Fantasy 1 and Final Fantasy 2 in comparison. they have similarities but they are different worlds.
ya the rules in FFXIV may be quite different in certain aspects, but it would work against it if it's too different from
what people are used to. I mean look at how much PSO Episode III flopped because of how different it was from
the formula that sparked success in the first place. But ya I understand FFXIV is a new world, and there may be
differences in its systems (hopefully the battle system is pretty much the same. we don't need marvel ultimate alliance in
our FF.) but there must also be similarities to help the players feel right at home.

[Murphie]

re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

They still wouldn't call it FFXIV if it was just an update to FFXI.

[Durahansolo]

re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

they would just add another damn expansion with a graphical update in it.

Aren't "PS2 limitations" the reason why they claim they can't do a graphical update?

[Murphie]

re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

Which is a pretty huge assumption. I mean, if SE wanted to make the same damn game, they would just add another damn expansion with a graphical update in it. Not create an entirely new game with a new title.

[pancakelizard]

re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

I'm not holding my breath. The act of connecting the two worlds physically seems so programming intensive and impossible, I'm going to need people to stop acting like it's possible.

really?
have you programmed?

it's rather easy considering all stats and data are stored in a database

INSERT INTO ffxivuser
SELECT *
FROM bah.user
WHERE (polid = abcd1234)

Assuming values and stats would copy.

[Feba]

re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

The only way to prevent its abuse is to not include it at all.

On the same basis:

FFXIV cannot have gil. FFXIV cannot have an AH. FFXIV cannot have Kraken Clubs. FFXIV cannot have Penta Thrust. FFXIV cannot have Rangers or Black Mages. FFXIV cannot have gear swaps. FFXIV cannot have Tractor. FFXIV cannot have competent RDMs.

Wow! FFXIV is going to be a pretty different place with everything that's been 'abused' removed. Of course, it was already probably going to be a pretty different place because it's not the same fucking game, but that's still incredible!

[Murphie]

re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

Exactly. People keep talking like this game is going to be a carbon copy of FFXI. That seems incredibly unlikely.

[jenova_9]

re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

plenty of FFs gotten by without blinking because their combat system allows characters to kill things much faster and take more damage too. also their accuracy/damage dealing didn't suck even if they were fighting something 10 levels higher than them. So those games had no need for blinking to have a better chance at outlasting a mob. and that's not to mention the easy 99 potions, hi-potions and x-potions they have stashed in their inventory.

They could go the Esper/Materia route and not have the job included at all. That might actually be for the better.

NUUUUU! Then potentially anyone will be able to summon regardless of job. That is too FF6/7/8ish
Summoner is much better as its own job, they just gotta make them good DDs like they are in FFTactics.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

And I do love how people are saying "X is broken in FFXI, if FFXIV has it it is doomed to suck". It's FFXIV, not FFXI-2, people!

Utsusemi is broken in FFXI, SE won't fix it because the reaction to fixing it would lead to a mass exodus. People are just plain whipped on Blink. The only way to prevent its abuse is to not include it at all. Plenty of FF games have gotten by without it anyway.

Their damage is "terrible" in this game. Who knows what SMN would be like in FFXIV?

They could go the Esper/Materia route and not have the job included at all. That might actually be for the better.

[Feba]

re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

See WoW. Custom UIs. Easy. Anything SE wouldn't allow in a custom UI should be easy to detect and lead to instant bannination.

Pluuuuuus, with a good custom UI system, they'd be able to see what you're doing with it, instead of it being an external program.

And I do love how people are saying "X is broken in FFXI, if FFXIV has it it is doomed to suck". It's FFXIV, not FFXI-2, people!

[Mhurron]

re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

The PS3 more than has the ability to support custom UIs, and far more advanced UIs than the PS2 had. If people feel the need to use any sort of client-side hack, SE fucked up hugely on FF14.

No matter what SE does with the UI on this game there will be people who view it as limited or unsatisfactory. When someone figures out how, there will be unofficial client hacks for it.

Not that I care, I won't be playing it.

[Murphie]

re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

Their damage is "terrible" in this game. Who knows what SMN would be like in FFXIV?

[jenova_9]

re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

I'd even go so far as to say drop the subjob system entirely. While the system has allowed for robust play, its also limited other jobs. No matter how helpful someone thinks COR/WHM is, I'm not going to enjoy doing it. I'm a gambler, if I wanted a sure thing and to cure people, I'd be BRD/WHM. As a gambler, I refuse to play things 100% safe. SMN's know what I'm talking about here.

ya it would be interesting if FFXIV experiments with the classic FF1 style of concrete roles instead of using subjobs.
but at the sametime, if this mmorpg follows the trinity role rules, a party is screwed if they don't have a warrior to tank.
they can't depend on like a dragoon or monk, because they don't have provoke (unless the system gives them a provoke type ability)

in cases like that, subjobs might save parties from breaking apart.

I mean what use is there for a SMN in early levels if they can't sub WHM? their damage output is terrible!

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

Some of the things you all mention would effectively turn FFXIV into a glorified online game. There are always going to be negatives and positives to any situation, and you can't please everyone, especially considering different cultures, language barriers and perceptions.

Props to JP Button, because I finally realize how xenophobic and uptight JP gamers are.

They're just as hit-or-miss as we are. I remembered when I started out in the game I had played in two different JP-centric PTs. In one party, I made a mistake and the leader explained in what limited english he knew the problem I was creating by casting Dia on a link. He was very polite about it.

Then there was the JP-centric PT that kicked me as a WHM because I spoke english. Because, as we all know, I need to speak fluent japanese to fill HP bars in Valkurm.

As far as Americans and Europeans go, we can be just as Xenophobic or, actually worse, too enamored with the presence of a Japanese player. Really, I'm talking Otaku Overdrive here. Its scary enough that I'll see some asian chick being stalked in the Manga section of Barnes and Noble, but if you want to see some people truely obsessed with the Japanse culture - cruise on over to the Atlus USA forums

There's a SRPG that lands here this week called Knights in the Nightmare and there was this thread begging Atlus USA to include the original Japanese voice work.

Except there never was any, what voicework there was happened to be in English to start with, even in the Japanese version.. Otaku Overdrive can be funny and scary.

Have any of you played a JRPG lately (BBQ, feel free to chime in here)? Grinding is synonymous with gameplay. Japanese developers build their games around the precepts of grinding.

Seppuku? Kamikaze? The Japs love self-inflicted pain. I'm sure that when it first came out, losing exp for dying and grinding for exp like a crazy virgin in a college dorm whorehouse made sense.

Bioware aside, grinding is pretty central to RPGs on both sides of the pond, western RPGs can actually be more sadistic about it. The core differences are that Japanese RPGs use grinding to fill the spaces in between a linear story while western RPGs tend to encourage freedom and moral choices that build on the actual character's personality on top of all the grinding. We like to forge the character's story for ourselves, rather than it be guided.

MMOs have always been where both RPGs cultures collide. There's certainly going to be some forced linear elements, but there's also the sense of open-world exploration and freedom to define your character in various ways. FFXI was just more limited in character freedom since there was no faction element, you're a goody-goody two shoes even as a Dark Knight, Corsair or Thier. You're always a hero.

In most western MMOs, you're allowed to be evil, so being a total douchebag can actually be in-character for some people. Thief ninjaed some loot? Well, what do you expect? He's a thief!

The presense of the Japanese culture - along with attracting mainstream RPG players from the west who are actually unfamilar with western RPGs and have only played JRPGs - is going to hurt one part of FFXIV just as it has killed it in FFXI and WoW.

It will be hard to roleplay. It will be hard because JRPG players and the japanese have very little concept of roleplaying being about forging your own character and acting out part of the story. Its a problem ANY franchise-themed MMO is going to face, too. Its a problem in WoW.

But EQ? City of Heros? Vanguard? Warhammer? Its much easier to roleplay in. They do not attract the mainstream player and I found lots of people will roleplay naturally in those games.

I LOVE the idea of removing a lot of "player control". People are greedy, and opportunists will control the market. I don't know if anyone's expressed that to SE. Greed breeds contempt, and contempt is what drove RMT to thrive. Plenty of people above the age of 21 buy gil, and no matter how High-And-Mighty you might sound, it really does make sense. It's all a matter of taste, I suppose.

There does need to be some more system control in place, but there are always going to be lootwhores and douchebags. They way to diminish them is to prevent them from getting too much power in the first place. Having internalized DKP systems for guilds would be the first step in the right direction, the second would be not letting a job get so powerful that it can be halfassed and still be invited (see: BRD, COR, RDM).

And I hate to say this, but bring some elitism back. There is such a thing as making things too casual and if you do that, you lead the player to lower thier guard and also make them think they're so awesome. Make missions hard, put more emphasis back on gear. Separate the wheat from the chaff, FFXI endgame is 90% chaff because they lowered the bar do much.

I'd even go so far as to say drop the subjob system entirely. While the system has allowed for robust play, its also limited other jobs. No matter how helpful someone thinks COR/WHM is, I'm not going to enjoy doing it. I'm a gambler, if I wanted a sure thing and to cure people, I'd be BRD/WHM. As a gambler, I refuse to play things 100% safe. SMN's know what I'm talking about here.

And that's what really needs to be done in FFXIV - players need to be forced out of safety-minded strategies. Do not include Blink in FFXIV, in any form whatsoever. Not for White Mage and certainly not for Ninja. The removal of subjobs would alleviate support roles, too. Let the healers be the healers, let other magicians do their thing.

When I played EQ, I had two main functions as an enchanter - crowd control and refreshing mana. That's it. It was a thrill to crowd control to. A rouge could have a bad pull and I could turn that into a beautiful EXP chain for the party. Rouge pulled four cyclops instead of just one? No problemo! I bind the first, charm the second and send the second to fight the third while the party takes on the fourth mob.

Yeah, my charm might break and I might t might die, but that was part of the excitement.

In fact - I want to see Beastmaster enjoy that kind of control if such a job in implemented in FFXIV.

I really don't feel a tremendous impact of RMT these days, but then, I'm on Odin and my names won't come up in the top of any search. What countermeasures have been put in place have dramatically lessened the impact of RMT in the game at large, but I suppose your encounters with them will vary upon how you choose to play and make gil.

I've never had the temptation, I just let my ranger and corsair drain my Conquest and imperial standing to keep me in the ammo in between times I'm farmng or whatever. The stereotype that RNGs RMT makes me want to smack the bitch that utters it. I could very easily be pwning your damage just using Scorpion Arrows, I'm just too proud to use them most of the time. But I can pwn your damage with Scorpion Arrows... if I wanted to.