Whm/Dnc

[Rain_Blade]

Has anyone "tried" it? I'm just curious about it. I haven't seen anyone on this forum tlak about it much.

With Dancer subbed:

Drain Samba
Aspir Samba
Drain Samba II

Curing Waltz
Divine Waltz
Curing Waltz II
Healing Waltz (removes a harmful status effect. I heard it removes all the status effects that an Erase can do)

Spectral Jig (Grants Sneak and Invisible)

Quick Step (Lowers target's evasion. If successful, you earn 2 finishing moves)
Box Step (Lower's target's defense. If successful, you earn 2 finishing moves)

Animated Flourish (Provoke)
Desperate Flourish (Weighs down target with a low chance of success. I hear this never works when DNC is subbed)


Maybe it oculd be interesting (especially a Whm with Kraken Club). Although, I wonder about the accuracy. Anyway, this whole thing COULD be just a crazy idea, so what do you all think?

[DakAttack]

Re: Whm/Dnc

Crazy idea for crazy white mages. It might work against crabs, crawlers, and other enemies with weak or no AE abilities, but being there on the front lines is still dangerous. You'd need a near capped weapon skill to boot.

As a tank I'm thankful for the distance mages put between the monster and themselves. It gives me that extra second or two to throw in a provoke. I've had a few Rdms that get up front, toss a huge cure, and get checked off the list faster than I can provoke.

[Sabaron]

Re: Whm/Dnc

Nooooooo!

/em averts eyes and runs away screaming...

I think WHM/DNC is an excuse to melee as WHM and it's bad for the same reason that RDM/DNC is. Not that it isn't possible to use it on certain occasions but because it is in general not as good as something else you could pick.

I realize that you're probably referring to it as a situational sub, but when you suggest things like this, "special" people will latch onto it as a viable alternative in general. Be careful.

I can see it as a good way to supplement your basic healing when you're already meleeing, but I think you'd be better off going /BLU and using the incredibly efficient cures it provides while using Club WS to restore your MP. Let the PUP sub DNC. I really can't hear enough about PUP/DNC right now...but no one wants to talk about it. They just want to talk about <insert traditional backline job here>/DNC.

[Icemage]

Re: Whm/Dnc

If I'm inviting someone to cure with TP, why am I not inviting a PUP/DNC over the WHM/DNC who isn't resting for MP? At least the PUP + automaton will actually hit for some damage.

Other than that, the main issue is that /DNC doesn't give WHMs anything they couldn't do already aside from Steps. Not terrible, but not particularly useful, and as Sabaron noted, gives people entirely the wrong idea about how WHM works.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Whm/Dnc

I realize that you're probably referring to it as a situational sub, but when you suggest things like this, "special" people will latch onto it as a viable alternative in general.

Yeah just like the people so disappointed that there wasn't a new tank job that they're trying to make DNC a tank now. DNC is a bloody awful main job tank and eventually people will realize and accept that fact. But for now, the "special" people will invite DNCs to tank.

This is why I'm waiting.

I think /DNC is more useful in the hands of melee jobs, which is likely part why DNC was given a Accuracy Bonus trait. I don't think that trait was put there for RDMs and WHMs that wanted to melee, but jobs that generally consider gearing accuracy and get the TP on a regular basis.

SAM, DRK, PLD, DRG, COR, BLU, PUP and others all have good means of getting TP. RNG does too, but I already have non-magical means of HP recovery, so my RNG will just stick with /SAM and /NIN to that end.

[Rain_Blade]

Re: Whm/Dnc

[Malacite]

Re: Whm/Dnc

>. > I found DNC tanking in the early levels (1-25) to be perfectly fine. Hell, they get Provoke (Animated Flourish)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Whm/Dnc

>. > I found DNC tanking in the early levels (1-25) to be perfectly fine. Hell, they get Provoke (Animated Flourish)

That's the exact shallow reasoning that's making me wait. People think if it can provoke and evade damage/cure itself, its a tank.

That's not what tanking is, that's never what tankking was. FFXI players don't know what a real tank is to start with thanks to NIN.

Tanking is generating enmity through damage and other abilitys and keeping enmity focused on one person. This also happens to require a team effort and knowing how tanking functions, but WHMs insist on topping off PLD HP and melees try to spike damage as high as they can, fucking with the main tank;s enmity gain.

FFXI doesn't know tanking.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Whm/Dnc

/Dancer = Tank subjob

Dancer != Tank

[Akashimo]

Re: Whm/Dnc

Tanking is generating enmity through damage and other abilitys and keeping enmity focused on one person.

Nutshell jobs that does it in my experience would be, war, pld, nin, mnk, sam.
War: Voke, double attack, warcry. Enmity gear and enmity on AF.
Pld: To me, the tank. Cure, hate spike and enmity generating native abilities.
Nin: Ni spells. Jin. Gear.
Mnk: All native JA. One of the best dot to generate hate. Counter.
Sam: High damage ws, high tp gain. Parry skill. Third Eye. Enmity gear.

Out of all those. Only two fits the bill for players. Why? They don't have to work as much to let the other jobs that have the capabilities to.

This also happens to require a team effort and knowing how tanking functions, but WHMs insist on topping off PLD HP and melees try to spike damage as high as they can, fucking with the main tank;s enmity gain.
FFXI doesn't know tanking.

As whm, I'll just let plds cure themselves a few times and toss on Regen III, mp saving for me and lets me get away with cure bombs if i so need to. Why I seen so many whms who fail at this basic mp/hp skill, I do not know.

DD wise. Wait til the mob is at least 50% before you spike damage if you're not a thf -_- Waste so much hp just to waste a mage's mp. And the more ws than just store tp doesn't cut it. There is a reason why we have TP modifiers. Learn them. And if you're already a high dot dd job, make sure the mob hasn't looked at you for the fight before ws at the 50% or less hp remaining mark.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Whm/Dnc

Honestly, I see WHM/PUP with wider applicability than WHM/DNC in full, 6/6 parties.

In small parties, though, /DNC looks pretty awesome--until you want to use your TP for Moonlight or Hexa Strike or something.

[Akashimo]

Re: Whm/Dnc

until you want to use your TP for Moonlight or Hexa Strike or something.

Exactly why i won't try /dnc on whm XD
<_<; I love spamming those moves too much not too. >.>;

[Sabaron]

Re: Whm/Dnc

Honestly, I see WHM/PUP with wider applicability than WHM/DNC in full, 6/6 parties.

In small parties, though, /DNC looks pretty awesome--until you want to use your TP for Moonlight or Hexa Strike or something.

Oooo... WHM/PUP... That's a nifty idea. I'm thinking White Turban. WHM doesn't do anything with their Ranged Attack slot that couldn't be better filled by an Animator and they're already nicely out of AoE range so the puppet isn't likely to be injured. Stormwalker by itself casts Cure III once subjob reaches 28th, and Cure II at 15th. I can't find any significant source of data on how Soulsoother modifies the maton's spell usage though--perhaps someone can furnish it. Two healers is better than one, and the puppet gets free refresh or convert from attachments--very sexy boost to curing. Too bad you can't "order" it to heal while you rest and order it to rest while you heal As an added bonus, the maton won't botch cures and miss--if he sees someone in danger, he'll automatically target and cure correctly. The maton would be sort of like an extra "safety net" to guard against untimely death in addition to supplementing the WHM's MP pool. I think this idea has great prospects... I'm going to do some internet digging. Perhaps someone has (personal) experience with the combo they'd be willing to share (in a different thread dedicated to WHM/PUP of course ).

Suggested reading on this side topic: Behavior of the Stormwalker Frame

The Soulsoother frame apparently adds "White Mage" type spells that aren't included in the basic Stormwalker spell list on the document mentioned previously including -na spells and Regen.

According to the limited background information on it, reports on it's usefulness are quite good with the puppet providing Cure III, Flash (with attachment), -na and Regen just like a good little mini-WHM. Note that the curing rate is dependent on light maneuvers and it should be noted that it's wise to have a Damage Gauge on so you can get Cures at 60% (1 maneuver) and 70% (2 maneuvers). Three successive maneuvers required for Cures at 80% generally overloads the puppet. Besides, Cure at 70% is quite close to the Yellow line WHM's use as a mark for a cure anyway. You might want to back off to 1 maneuver (60%) if your tank is a Paladin.

[Coinspinner]

Re: Whm/Dnc

...I'm suddenly struck with the desire to level PUP.

NO! Resist... must finish SCH and BLM. ><;

[Sabaron]

Re: Whm/Dnc

...I'm suddenly struck with the desire to level PUP.

NO! Resist... must finish SCH and BLM. ><;

Do all three. I took a good long vacation from levelling Red Mage to level all of my sub-jobs even though I started out with only WHM. I did BLM, NIN, BLU, DRK, and BRD all just for RDM. Surely you can handle a third