Whm 50+

[Spiritbear]

Sorry if this is already posted somewhere. I did a search and couldn't find what I was looking for.

Currently I'm a 47whm and I will be 50 by the end of Thurs. I am trying to figure out what I should be lvling for a sub job so I can do some soloing as my whm. I'm tired of getting the same crap statements that whms shouldn't solo or fight for that matter. I usually try to play frontline whm when I pt, but would like to know what job would be better for a sub to do that. I have been told that when I get to endgame whm/nin is good, but I'm not sure. I have also been trying to figure out where I can farm and Astral or Ether ring at?? Any help would be appreciated. I will post a completle list of equipment I currently have soon.

This is what I currently have that I can remember:
Blessed Hammer
Fish Scale Shield
Magna body, hands, legs and feet.
Enhancing Earring
Mana Ring
Friar's Rope
Holy Phial
White Cape


I'll post the rest tomorrow.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

[Caspian]

Re: Whm 50+

Both astral and ether rings are BCNM drops.
/NIN might work alright, just dual wield hammers. Later on darksteel mauls are actually fairly useful in doing damage solo.
As far as meleeing while pt'ing, never ever ever do it if the mob has a damaging aoe tp move. The damage you take compared to the tp you're giving the mob just isnt justifiable.
During pt's stick with either blm or smn as a sub. (/blm sleeps can be useful)

[Omniblast]

Re: Whm 50+

I have played up to a level 75 whm.

You are a back line job.

You "should not" solo. The amount of effort for you to solo enough xp is laughable. You are better off in a party obtaining exp.

If you want to solo, go level BST.

With that said, you could quite possibly level bst as a sub. I've seen this in higher levels.

All your doing if you play front line whm is = death or tp gain for the mob. Stop doing that. Seriously stop. Your not helping the tank. Your not helping doing your main job which is curing, protection, and enhancing.

The only thing you should be doing in front line is bar<element>. That is all.
Haste, Regen all can be cast in the back line. Occasional Flash when the Ninja gets spanked. Oh and if you level your smn high enough, you can do Aerial Armor every so often, but that 100 mp could be better off spent curing.

[Icemage]

Re: Whm 50+

All your doing if you play front line whm is = death or tp gain for the mob. Stop doing that. Seriously stop. Your not helping the tank. Your not helping doing your main job which is curing, protection, and enhancing.

Echo that. 75 WHM here as well, and I couldn't agree more.

WHM melee skills are sub-par in XP parties. On top of that, if you're doing your job right, you won't have time to hit things. Either you're casting, or your resting for MP so that you can continue casting.

If this isn't something you enjoy, you are playing entirely the wrong job -> Go play Blue Mage instead.


Icemage

[Spiritbear]

Re: Whm 50+

I play frontline when I am able to. If I am sitting in the back and only having to cast a cure ever few min then why shouldn't I be up in the front lvling my club skills. I know what my job is suppose to do and I can do it from the front while I bash in the mobs head with my hammer, there have been several instances where I have done more dmg then the rest of the pt, but those are usually when we have a PL with us. I don't understand why everyone on this game has to be and do what everyone else wants them to do. If I am in a pt I know when I need to pull back and just cure and buff, but I'm also competent enough to know when I can be up there with the rest of the pt using my beating stick on the mobs. This post was not to have everyone tell me that I can't be a frontline, it was to find out what everyone felt would be BETTER in thier OPINION for a whm to sub and use for equipment. So lets try to stick to the questions at hand and not try to dissuade someone from enjoying the game the way they want, and I would also like to challenge everyone that reads this post and plays the game to do the same. The game is for people to have fun, not so they have to bend and conform to the desires of the masses.

[Icemage]

Re: Whm 50+

Well, no one else is paying your fees, do as you please.

You'll find, however, that as you get to the 50+ range, whether you like it or not, your melee accuracy will be horrible even with capped Club skill. In addition, many things you fight beyond that point like to do area attacks. There are certainly a few exceptions (Colibri come to mind), but by and large there isn't a lot that is safe to melee past level 50.

As for why you wouldn't want to be beating stuff in with your weapon in those cases - well, I suppose you can. Talking about outdamaging other party members when you have a PL available doesn't support your case - you're generally not going to have a PL at 50+, which means you're going to have to spend time actually resting and casting magic.

As far as melee damage subs go, I suppose you could use /THF for Sneak Attack + Judgment or some such. I still don't see any point to it though - you're going to miss a LOT, you're not going to hit for much damage, and you're potentially putting your party in danger with your refusal to spend time regaining MP, but if you're OK with the fact that people are going to look down on you because you'd rather have fun at the expense of party efficiency (and hurt their XP gains in the process), then knock yourself out.


Icemage

[Mog]

Re: Whm 50+

I play frontline when I am able to. If I am sitting in the back and only having to cast a cure ever few min then why shouldn't I be up in the front lvling my club skills. I know what my job is suppose to do and I can do it from the front while I bash in the mobs head with my hammer, there have been several instances where I have done more dmg then the rest of the pt, but those are usually when we have a PL with us. I don't understand why everyone on this game has to be and do what everyone else wants them to do. If I am in a pt I know when I need to pull back and just cure and buff, but I'm also competent enough to know when I can be up there with the rest of the pt using my beating stick on the mobs. This post was not to have everyone tell me that I can't be a frontline, it was to find out what everyone felt would be BETTER in thier OPINION for a whm to sub and use for equipment. So lets try to stick to the questions at hand and not try to dissuade someone from enjoying the game the way they want, and I would also like to challenge everyone that reads this post and plays the game to do the same. The game is for people to have fun, not so they have to bend and conform to the desires of the masses.

You're partying with real people. People will expect you to be a back-line job and perform it correctly, not melee on the front-lines. I can understand if there's a powerleveler in a low-level party. If so, by all means, skill up clubs, nuke the mob, do whatever.

....but more than often, when you get into the higher levels, you're not going to have a power-leveler in your party. Since you're elvaan, you're going to need to conserve your mp, and buy more mp-gear to heal with. You're not going to have time to melee the mob, cure party members, heal, and repeat the whole process again.

I'll repeat what everyone else is saying. If you're meleeing in an xp party, you're

1) giving the mob extra tp
2) going to get hit by AoE attack that would be avoided if you stayed in the back-lines. This means more mp consumtion on yourself
3) probably subbing ninja. In which case, you won't have jack shit mp to heal with. If you were subbing blm or smn, they don't even add any benefits to melee....

You say to have fun, but if having fun means pissing off other party members (real life people, mind you) so you can skill up on your whm, then FFXI is not for you. Feel free to use outlandish combinations in a single player game, not in a game where you have to interact with real people.

[eva00r]

Re: Whm 50+

but those are usually when we have a PL with us.

GG.

After lv 60 the mechanism in the game is COMPLETELY different from what you expected, front line jobs and back line jobs' melee capabilities gap will be extremely high. You will kill the mob every 1 minute, and you have to spend 100ish mp per minute also. If you keep meleeing, you will never get the mp pool enough to protect the other in the party at all.

Anyway the quote is LOL.

[Spiritbear]

Re: Whm 50+

I have yet to piss off anyone while doing that and you guys are missing the key statements in my post. I melee when I know I can and don't have to worry about people loosing exp. I have yet to be in a pt and have a mem die while I was main healer unless the pt gets a couple of links and there is not blm or rdm to cast sleep. I pt the way I know I can and the way I know I will be the best help to my pt. If everyone else isn't able to do the job the way I do then that's fine, I'm not asking them to. But I can guarantee any pt that I'm in I will get a whm that will do the best job he can and will not stop till I absolutly have to. Here is my favorite movie quote, "Everyone Fights, Noone quits". That is how I play the game and that is why people invite me back into pts time and again. I'm sure you guys don't play your jobs the exact way everyone wants you to. I am going to play this game and try all the variations that I think would work and see how it goes. Who knows maybe I'll find a combo that that works better for me but everyone else thinks is stupid, and shouldn't be used. And get everyone that sees to think outside the box and they will do the same.

[Jei]

Re: Whm 50+

Well if you really insist. You can macro in your clubs and ACC and swing away I guess.

The thing tho, it's not much about you slowing down your party or not.... But it's about a meleeing WHM. That fact alone can really give other members negative impression about you. Whether you can keep up with the healing or not is not even being considered in this case.

[Nazo]

Re: Whm 50+

I sometimes play as whm/nin for ls events, skill-ups etc and while it's certainly good fun to whack away with my clubs and tank the mobs a bit with utsusemi and stone-skin, I'm also aware that I'm not being as effective a whm as I would be if I were on the back-line. In these kind of situations I don't need to be so it's not an issue but there is no way I'd try it against XP mobs or anything approaching a serious fight and I don't think anyone would stand for it if I did.

The reason people tend to think of jobs in set roles is because that it is how the game was designed. It's a team game and everyone has a role in that team which they are picked for. Just because people aren't dying in your parties that doesn't mean you are doing an efficient job.

You might be able to get away with it at lower levels when whms are in short supply and parties are still in the mindset that they need one, but pretty soon whms start becoming a less of a necessity and more of a luxury, and a meleeing whm is likely to find themselves out in the cold in favour of someone doing something actually useful to the party.

[Kirsteena]

Re: Whm 50+

Also, losing out on that 10% cure potency from not using light staff could very well hurt you.

Skill up parties are for keeping your club capped tbh.

[Ameroth]

Re: Whm 50+

I think it's funny how you're asking for high level WHM's advice, but then turning around and telling them off. I'm not going to bark at you for trying to be a "front-job whm," whatever, do what you want. I just know that if I was in a pt with a WHM doing that, that'd be the last time I was in a pt with that WHM. Seriously, if you want to be an upfront healer, level BLU and sub /WHM or something.

In any case, in terms of soloin', I can't imagine it being very productive 50+, but i suppose you could kill some EP- mobs if you subbed nin and casted stoneskin when needed. You could probably make about 500-700exp every hour or so...

[SharMarali]

Re: Whm 50+

Speaking as someone who DID solo on WHM a fair amount in the mid-to-upper 50's... Yeah, exp is incredibly dismal. It's really not even funny how awful it is.

I only took WHM to 60, and honestly, I didn't intend to take it THAT far when I started out. But once I got it to 38, I wanted 42 for the last teleport spell. Once I got it there, I wanted some other level, I don't remember why. Once I got that, I wanted 56 so I could have raise II. And once I got it there, my CoP static needed me to raise it to 60 for the airship fight.

Occassionally, a PT would end with me only needing like 2k exp to level up. And when I'd try to find a new PT, I'd get shot down because I was so close to leveling. So I'd just go solo. I went WHM/NIN and dual wielded hammers. I used attack food and a couple of pieces of atk/acc gear. You can stay alive a long, long time as a WHM/NIN, but it takes forever to kill anything. I think I managed about 1200 exp/hour a couple of times. Mostly, I tried to stick to skeletons, since they're fairly weak to hammering away.

As for the side topic... I don't have a lot to add, really, except to say that I don't understand why someone would pick what is UNARGUABLY the single most DEFENSIVE job in the game if they want to deal damage. There are SO many jobs where that's what you're *supposed* to do. As a WHM, you're ALWAYS the main healer. It would be stupid to invite a RDM or a SMN to play main heal if you have a WHM. This means that if the tank's HP drop, you're responsible for making sure they don't die. If the thing you're fighting uses an AoE stun, you're screwed. If it uses a heavy AoE attack and then YOUR hp are low, and you proceed to pull hate casting a cureIV, you die and the whole PT is screwed. If you somehow pull hate during the fight (hey, you claim you're outdamaging your PT, you must be pulling hate, right?) and it attacks you while you're casting, interrupting your spell... Screwed. Ice spikes? Now you're paralyzed. Screwed. AoE silence? Wasting echo drops, unless you don't have them, in which case, screwed. Single-target heavy-damage attack while you have hate? You got it. Screwed.

There are very, very, very few types of monsters that a WHM can frontline on WITHOUT leaving their PT vulnerable. By refusing to actually do your job, which is to stand back, avoid taking damage, heal, enhance, and regain MP whenever possible, you might be having fun. But I guarantee, the other 5 people in your PT are NOT.

[Kirsteena]

Re: Whm 50+

Thinking back, I remember when I was levelling up my rdm in the mid 60s in Bibiki Bay. There was a whm there who insisted on meleeing. Apparently I was one of the first to ever manage to get him to solely be back line. Other than words such as "sit" and "stay" I a) refused to refresh him unless he got back where he should be b) refused to cure him if he took damage (lolbibikibaybombtoss at the start of a fight), and refused to silena him if a Catoblepas silenced him. After he died a couple of times, he did take his place backline...