Whm/thf?

[Drawmuh]

ive already have my theif up to lvl 18 but I now I really want to go for a bard! I know the WHM subjob is the best for it so I was wondering how well will my theif sub work for it?

[Yuanlung]

Thief sub is nice for farming. Gil finder to increase you gil gain, treasure hunter to increase your drops, and steal/mug to get coins and other goodies.


For playing in an exp party though, it not good for mages to sub a melee class.


Since you'd need to get your WHM up to 37 eventually, you might as well level BLM up a bit for sub. This also gives you the bonus of the teleport + warp combo. This is the route I would take.

Alternatively, if you are lacking on play time, you *could* take WHM up to 30 or so without a proper sub.... This is usually looked down upon but people pretty much let WHM's do whatever they want before 30... :sweat:

[Pilsbane]

Yep, Yuanlung summarized it nicely. Whitemages get away with a lot up until about mid-30s. You could probably get a group in less than 5 minutes as a level 25 WHM with no subjob, no equipment and only the cure/protect spells.

[riceburner4540]

there's a level 57 white mage on my server without a subjob....everyone seems to love him. he seems like a nice guy, but jeez...

[Illverin]

there was a whm on Siren that actually subbed bst and thf on different occasions for xp parties....somehow he managed to get to 64. Then there was this other whm who subbed thf and went into Eldieme to level around 37 ( i dunno why) but i yelled at him for subbing thief on an xp party when there are clearly better options. His argument was "i want better drops" /sigh....some people these days

[Rafi Malak']

Seriously we WHM can get away with anything so go ahead and sub THF you'll have no trouble finding a party ever !! Just as long as your a good WHM with nice equipment. Hell plus your taru which makes invites that much easier!

[riceburner4540]

you don't even need nice equipment to get through qufim...hell, even through kazham. i'm using my black mage's eremite's rings, RSE pants and boots, a morion earring, doublet, brais, traveler's hat, and basically just low lvl gear. still easy to get invites. my spells are completely up to date (except erase) though. up to maybe crawler's nest, nothing matters if you're a whm main. not subjob, not equipment. whm will get parties. just do your job, bad reputations spread like wildfire.

[Sharks]

I've subbed THF since 18...its not that bad, but I've just started lvling BLM anyway

[UnnamedGalka]

Seriously we WHM can get away with anything so go ahead and sub THF you'll have no trouble finding a party ever !!

Don't get too excited. It doesn't stay that way forever.

Yes, WHMs are very much in demand in the early levels...so in demand that you'll be taken even with a questionable subjob (e.g. THF), but it soon changes. In the higher levels, you'll find that parties will start picking up RDMs instead of WHMs. As far as EXP parties go, RDMs can heal every bit as efficiently as WHMs, plus they get Refresh, which is a VERY useful spell. By then, WHMs are not essential to a PT anymore, and needless to say, a WHM/THF will be passed over more often than not.

Furthermore, a higher level WHM is gonna want the MP bonus that comes with subbing another mage job anyway.

[Icemage]

Generally speaking, up until level 40, WHM can get away with murder as far as subjobs go. This is due to a lot of things:

(1) WHM aren't just useful, they are a necessity up to that point. RDM make competent healers at higher levels, but lower level red mages without Convert simply can't take the role of primary healer except against certain enemies that don't have nasty status/area attacks such as single bats in Garlaige Citadel. SMN/WHM are an adequate substitute, but summoners are so rare as a whole that it doesn't really impact the demand for a white mage in parties at low levels.

(2) Subjob abilities and stat bonuses up through 40/20 simply don't make that much of an impact on your effectiveness. Sure, having a mage subjob gives you extre MP, but you could live without it if you're careful. This isn't to say that the Evasion Up you'd get from /THF10 is superior to the extra MP you'd get from /BLM, but less serious players may not notice that much of a difference,

(3) Lower level parties, on the whole, are rarely "tuned" into their job roles, so having the optimal setup doesn't always net you more experience per hour. A lot of newer players simply do not understand party dynamics well enough to know that WHM/BLM is more effective than WHM/DRG, much less WHY this is so, and having more than 1 or 2 such people in a party is virtually guaranteed to have a negative impact on your XP potential, no matter how well you play yourself.

At higher levels (51+), things start to change dramatically.

(1) More XP to next level (10,000 at 51, and goes up, up, up) means players have more incentive to spend as little time as possible levelling, which means they also become more concerned with how EFFECTIVE each member of a party is.

(2) Subjobs at 50/25+ start to make a huge impact on stats, traits, spell selection, and play style. Good players will recognize what works well and what doesn't work as well, and will capitalize on this. Other players don't bother - they're the ones using WHM/NIN at 50 wondering why it has suddenly become so hard to find parties.

(3) There is more competition for the primary healer role at these levels. WHM face strong competition from RDM and SMN for this slot in parties at 51+. Add to this the fact that many, many players choose to play white mages simply because they are "easy to level" early on and you end up with a disproportionate number of white mages at higher levels compared to demand on most servers.

(4) Reputation and image are major contributors to your success at higher levels. Experienced players have learned to recognize specific signs which indicate that a player knows what they are doing. Things like having an appropriate (and fully levelled) subjob, good information in your Search comment (XP to next level, home point, alternate subjobs, pertinent equipment/spells, language preference, etc.) all contribute to how often, and what sort of party invitations you will receive. Add to this any reputation you may have gained at lower levels playing with other people and you will find that players who play smart, know what they are doing, and are willing to communicate well with others will have a much easier time levelling than other players, even if their level/job/subjob/equipment may be identical to someone else.


Icemage

[Fandyien]

My god..../emote is awed by Icemage.

Anyway, I think everyone else summed it up nicely. While, due to intense lethargy, I only skimmed a few of the earlier responses, I think that people were generally saying that WHM/THF just isnt feasible. If you want WHM to be your main job, choose a sub that compliments it with extra spells or MP, rather then melee skills. However, it would be useful for farming.

[Zaleshea]

Originally posted by Icemage


At higher levels (51+), things start to change dramatically.

(1) More XP to next level (10,000 at 51, and goes up, up, up) means players have more incentive to spend as little time as possible levelling, which means they also become more concerned with how EFFECTIVE each member of a party is.

I had to take a break from the whm main job for several reasons, and this quote speaks on one of them. I'm not lv51 or whatever with worries of losing 1k to 2k exp from death, but I think 700(or more) exp loss per death is enough to make me wonder how good a pt Im invited to is.. Having died multiple times in the past couple of parties due to bad location and poor party setup..I went from

3580/5800
3200/5800
2805/5800
3153/5800(yay?)
2703/5800..currently

Not one of the ones who wanted to level a job to 30 and then ditch it for advance job...Im very tired of being level 30. (For 4 weeks now..)

So if I should ever even get to 50...I might be much more picky about the parties I'm being invited to, infact I might go WEEKS without getting in a party unless I "recognize" the ones I played with long ago that were just awesome. I dont like wasted deaths, when you know you're skilled but it doesn't mean anything if the party sucks.

As for getting away with subs ~ yes whms do. Basically...I leveled to 30 without a sub at all sorta. My sub was BLM and it's lvl was 9 throughout the whole thing. Yea 30/09 and I got *plenty* invites. I wasn't lazy or anything...just the fear of going BACK to dunes to level sub... I use foods and stuff to compensate for the mp boost I WOULD have if it was fully leveled. Never been behind on armors/weapons. I always had the essential spells. 30 I hit a wall.

But when you enter Yhoator with a sub level THAT BAD and only 277mp, it shows...very much so. When you are drained much too early in a mandy fight. This is when I took time to level sub.

Can't play(I wanna be at my best) unless I get my next spell set.

Sure whms get away with some stuff cause parties need them, but dont be a slouch

[Omniblast]

The problem with reconizing who you play with is, that if you don't play often enough, you will get left behind. Case and point, I use to level with my friend who played a Samurai, and now I can't level with her anymore because she outleveled me. I'm currently level 60, and she is level 64 (last I checked). This means I need to play twice to three times what she plays in order to catch up.

I wish in the future Square would inplement some type of "mentor" program (not the current one) where if you partied up with someone higher, you would join their level so you would get decent xp. (This is like City of Heroes Sidekick program if you ever played or beta tested it). Then there would be the issue of everyone wanting to party up with a level 75 person so that they could be their levels...

Don't wait too long for people, or you may be left behind. Also try to start a 'static' party if you can so that you always have people to go level up with together and stay relatively close in levels together.