Casting Quickly

[Arturo-B]

Originally posted by locus
Silence Gas = Wind Elemental damage.

If you don't want to see those numbers, keep Baraera up all the time please.

Really! Fascinating! Thank you! I asked so many people in game what bar would help with this it's not even funny. I will be using baraera 100% of the time against Exorays. I was starting to think it was dark and there was nothing I could do.

[Ungerpurr]

Same thing applies for screwdriver from pugils (barwatera). I'm not sure about attacks like jet stream from tri-bats (baraera didn't seem to help), goblin bomb (barfira doesn't seem to help), cursed sphere from flies (never seen baraera tried, maybe it helps?). Many of those oh-so-nasty TP attacks are elemental, though, that much I know. Just like many PC weapon skills are elemental (burning blade, red lotus blade, raiden thrust, shining strike, seraph strike to name a few).

[Tirrock]

I haven't really seen Barwatera work for Screwdriver, but I have seen Barfira work on Goblin Bombs. (Which was really good for THF AF quests. Goblins loved to spam the bombs.)

I usually try to keep my PLD out of yellow HP. I give him about 200 HP less than max, so we can double Cure IIIs and not have one of ours be worthless. I heal him if he hits below 850 usually, try to keep him at 950 usually. (Keep in mind, my tank has 1150~ HP.)

Hopefully this was a one time event...but a Terror Pugil decided to Screwdriver spam. He was nicknamed (at least by me) the SAM Pugil. I swear, the little bastard used Meditate and tried to skill chain. PLDs HP went from 1000 to 200 in a few seconds.

I just got Cure V (a massive 33 exp into 61 right now), I've heard from Whren that it gets little hate. Sylvanas is implying it too. That makes me a happy camper, although, my Peace Ring will have to be replaced soon. (I only bought it because I'm pretty broke most the time.) Cure V is surprisingly MP efficent so far. My calculations show that it is just barely worse than Cure IV in MP efficency, making Cure III still king. (Actually, Cure is the king, but...well...32 HP isn't exactly great. It's half a hit.) Only odd thing is, I managed to get/keep hate from RandomBST#7.5 when I Cure Ved his sorry butt when he was near dead (level 30BST). I was surprised to see that it stuck to me for 20 seconds, until dying.

[Ravizel]

Originally posted by locus
Silence Gas = Wind Elemental damage.

If you don't want to see those numbers, keep Baraera up all the time please.

Absolutely true. Same thing with Crawler's AOE poison attack, keep up barwatera. It'll make life much easier.

[Illverin]

I havent read the full thread yet but got to the user that said at level 47 he switched mainly to cure 3's...I'm level 54 I still use cure 2 all the time. IMO theres absolutely no reason to be shelling out cure 3's all the time. Especially at the beginning of the fight where if you have a half way decent pld in your pt, he will know to cure himself for the first minute or two of the fight. All any good whm has to do at that point is shell out a regen 2 to help this. Then from that point, concentrate on hasting the necessary people, enfeebling the monster until they stick because at my level, Robber crabs are resistant little crabbies. But back to the main point, theres no reason what so ever to be sticking to cure 3. Especially if you wanna get xp chains past 2. Your MP will be spent by the second or third mob if your spamming those, not to mention youll be drawing a really good amount of hate and the tank wont be able to do his job. I barely use cure 3 in Robber crab fights or any xp fights unless its absolutely necessary. IMO you wont have to switch to cure 3 as your main cure until past 55 or even 56. Thats my two cents

[Icemage]

You're still casting Cure II at level 54?

If I recall correctly, assuming your Healing skill is capped, your cures should be something like 32, 92, 190, 370 at level 54, depending on your skill level and MND score/equipment.

Cure I: 8 MP for 32 HP = 4.00 HP per MP
Cure II: 24 MP for 92 HP = 3.83 HP per MP
Cure III: 46 MP for 190 HP = 4.13 HP per MP
Cure IV: 88 MP for 370 HP = 4.20 HP per MP

Why would you cast Cure II? It should be (by far) your LEAST efficient healing spell at that level. Are you scared of the aggro from Cure III? I could maybe understand avoiding Cure IV because of aggro, but Cure III should pretty much never get a monster's attention even when spammed at that level.

FYI, I don't even have macros for either Cure I or Cure II anymore at level 61. If someone is down less than 100 HP, I either leave them alone, or toss a Regen on them.


Icemage

[Illverin]

My point is that I dont have to cast Cure 3 all the time at level 54, i make sure to keep regen 2 up which is a big help. Im not scared of aggro at all. In my static pt, I've died more than the rest of my static pt to make sure that their safe. Thats my mentality. But I'm saying that dont cast cure 3 if you dont have to. Its not that I'm limiting myself to just using it, I choose to and its effective and it works. If youre stuck in a really bad party then I can understand the cure 3's, but my pt is excellent and efficient and it saves me MP.

[Rones]

it saves me MP.

Errrr how does it save you mp? Just look at the numbers Icemage posted. I can vouch for them as well. No matter how you look at it, cure 2 is as unefficient as you can get. If hate isn't an issue you should cast the most efficient cure possible which would be cure IV or the next best cure III.

[LockeCole]

With multiple mages (black, red or even bards), a paladin that likes to heal himself(aka a good paladin) and regen II, I see nothing wrong with using cure II. If you have someone regenerating your mp, you might as well use a constant cure II rather than waiting up for a huge cure III/IV while letting some ticks go to waste. Of course you understand that we don't always use cure II. If it goes yellow bam cure III or IV, but otherwise cure II is sufficient to keep life up enough that a high damage attack doesn't cause huge panic. sorry forgot to say i'm only level 51 whm. At later levels when monsters start to hit harder maybe cure III will be my standard, but for a normally well equiped tank, cure II is usually enough, although i toss a cure III after regen II just to push his life up.

[Illverin]

Errrr how does it save you mp? Just look at the numbers Icemage posted. I can vouch for them as well. No matter how you look at it, cure 2 is as unefficient as you can get. If hate isn't an issue you should cast the most efficient cure possible which would be cure IV or the next best cure III.[QUOTE]

Yes the numbers do seem to show otherwise, but when fighting, someone isnt thinking about how much HP per MP you get out of your cures. You look at how hard a mob is hitting your tank for and adjust accordingly. And for my tank, he has enough defense and VIT that I dont have to rely on Cure 3's all the time. Sometimes during fights, I dont have to start curing him until a quarter in because he knows how to play as PLD and use his MP so I dont have to. So he is the one casting Cure 3 to keep aggro on him and away from me, also saving me MP so we can get xp chains. Sometimes the most efficient cure isnt the one that gets the most HP per MP, its just having the presence of mind to not waste a cure 3 if you dont have to. Locked makes a valid point, why sit and wait for your tank to go in yellow or lose enough HP to toss a cure 3 when your basically wasting time.

[Icemage]

For every Cure II you cast, you could have healed 10-12 more HP for LESS MP using Cure III.

2 x Cure II = 48 MP = 184 HP
1 x Cure III = 46MP = 190 HP

Additionally, that means you're spending more time spellcasting, and so can't respond as fast to other situations... i.e. BLM just nuked a bit too hard with Stone III and pulled aggro, or RNG activates Barrage for a ton of damage... oh wait, you're still in the middle of casting Cure II, so now he just took an extra hit because you were too busy casting cures to Flash the monster and save them from 100 or more damage.

Yeah, that's MP-efficient...

After level 50 or so, there just isn't any good reason to cast Cure II, IMHO, with maybe the exception of when your tank is a Tarutaru in the early to mid-50s.


Icemage

[LockeCole]

Did you consider having mp regen while you cast it? If you cast 2 cure IIs, you can potentially gain back 6-9 mp after your first cure II. While if you just bam it on a cure III you can only gain it back after the cure III

so your formula will be

2 x cure II = 48 mp, regen 3-6mp maybe 42mp = 184hp
a x cure III = 46 mp no mp regen = 190hp

there is no real right to this question it's a matter of preference and adapting as necessary.

[Icemage]

What does MP recovery have to do with the price of lima beans in Peru?

Examine a 90 second fight. Let's say I have Refresh on the whole time (+3MP/3 seconds).

Lets say I cast:

Cure II x 6
Regen II on main tank x 2
Regen on puller x 1
Flash x 2
Haste on melee x 1

OR

Cure III x 3
Regen II on main tank x 2
Regen on puller x 1
Flash x 2
Haste on melee x 1

I've spent 6 less MP using Cure III, healed for an extra 24-30HP, and... amazingly enough... I've still recovered the same amount of MP (90 MP) during that time period either way.

What a concept.


Icemage

EDIT: If you're suggesting that you're waiting to cast Cure III while at FULL mp with MP recovery effects active, there are plenty of other things you could be casting instead of pointlessly spamming Cure II (and wasting MP). The only time I'm at full MP is at the start of a chain, sometimes not even then.

[Quezi]

The mark of a good support player is the ability to process info on the spot and calmly act in the most efficient way possible, HP:MP ratio should be a prime concern. Wasting MP because you are caught up in the moment is not what you want to do.

If something terrible happens the MP you save by waiting until the tank is hurt enough to need a cure3 instead of using cure 2s could make the difference between a cure just in time to save the tank as the mob makes its final attack, and a dead tank.

Every single MP is important. And as you are standing there, the party collapsing around you, low on health and about to die from burning beni, your last act should be just as calculated and efficient.

It is the responsibility of each person in a PT to act as efficiently as possible, objectively judge the capability of their abilities and resources and all things that comprise them to the current situation, even the value of their own life to the PT to other members, and contribute fully to the best interests not of themselves but of the collective party, it is expected.

When this is done, and the party becomes a single mind, and all the sound and communication can stop as you are the party, and the party becomes you, silently and perfectly preforming to the highest degree of efficiency and grace, then you can achieve the state of Pure EXP Flow, and as you stop acting and turn yourself over to the EXP, and let it caress you as it swirls around as water, you will know peace.

[Illverin]

I don't know how you can talk about being MP efficient when you're casting spells like Flash twice a fight. Flash was a spell built for a PLD to get aggro and/or hold aggro. There is no reason why you should be casting it. Whether its instant or not.

Numbers aside, I haven't had any problems using Cure 2 as my main cure at level 54. I can understand where it would be an issue at level 62, but I'm not there yet. And if the PLD is doing a good job keeping himself healthy then theres absolutely no reason why i need to shell out a cure 3.

Thank you Quezi for understanding what I'm trying to convey here