Advice on Cure method:

[goth-tech]

I was wondering if some high(er)(ish) Whm's could lend there knowledge about methods in which they use cure. Ive looked through a lot of the previous threads and couldnt find this.

Basically could you give a quick out line of what cures/regen we should be using throughout the levels? Im sure a lot of people would find it useful. For example:

Im currently only a L12 whm - so I spam Cure1 and use Cure2 when somebody gets below 25% of their health. Is this a good method for L11-13 Party?

If you could then say what level we should start using Cure2 instead of Cure1 that would be great help.

Thanks in advance!

(Paragraphs are our friends :D)

[Calianeri]

I'm certainly not the highest-level or most experienced WHM around, but maybe I can help. It sounds like you're doing it right... just make sure you're not casting Cure II too late.

Cure I will be your main spell through the late 20s at least. Cure II will be as MP-efficient as Cure I long before then, but you'll still use Cure I instead to reduce your aggro -- for your own safety and also so you don't mess up weapon skillchains. I still use it in the 40s, when the tank is taking steady but not serious damage, alternating with Cure II. Even now I don't use Cure III very frequently, to say nothing of Cure IV.

I started using Cure II somewhat frequently in the low 20s. I was also partying a lot with a Taru WAR at the time, so Cure III got a few uses too. :sweat: At level 21 you'll get Regen, and that plus Cure I will be a great combination. Regen your tank right before the fight.

About using Cure II at 25% HP... that sounds too low to me. But then again, I may not be remembering the HP ratio at level 12 right. Nowadays I pull out Cure III if someone goes under 50%. You've got to be as proactive as possible. Always know who has aggro and who could get it next.

Also know the potential worst-case damage from the monster. Gobbie bombs, pugil's screwdriver, bats' jetstream, etc, can all do serious damage. Keep a nice safety margin on your tank (and others for AOE), and use Cure II to achieve that if you have to.

[Wreck]

What he said..

25% is way to low.. Your tank can drop in one shot or bomb. At that lvl just start healing and watching who is getting hit when they are 3/4 health.

[tomc1988t]

i am not a "whm" or a "high level" persay...but i know what i like ^_^....keep the tank out of red completly....i like not going into yellow..but dont break yo back trying to keep them out of yellow..its a daunting task even for the greatest of mages...especially if your fighting stuff worth good xp -_-


gluck to you ^_^

[Icemage]

General rules of thumb that I use:

Cure philosophy:

- Use Cure I at all times until Cure II hits 90HP+, unless someone is in the red. ~level 20, depending on race/equipment.

- Use Cure II as primary healing spell once it hits 90+, until Cure III hits 180+. ~level 35, depending on race/equipment

- Use Cure III as primary healing spell once it hits 180+

- Cure IV becomes mana efficient when tanks are seriously hurt. It's most useful when it begins healing 365+ (~level 55). However, it is not recommended to use it constantly, as it generates a LOT of hate, and its often very dangerous to deliberately let your tanks have that much accumulated damage if you can avoid it.

- I don't have Cure V yet, so can't comment on its use.

Regen philosophy:

- At all levels, use your most powerful Regen spell on your primary tank at all times.

- When possible, always use a Regen spell instead of a Cure if you think there is time (i.e. secondary tank does not have aggro, but has damage).

- When possible ALWAYS use your most powerful Regen spell on any Dark Knight who has activated Souleater.

- Regen spells are never appropriate when any party member has red HP. The cast times are simply too long. Cure them first, then drop a Regen on them if there is additional damage.

Curaga philosophy:

- Curaga I becomes mana efficient when 3 or more players have 90+ damage.

- Curaga II becomes mana efficient when 3 or more players have 180+ damage.

- I haven't purchased Curaga III yet, so can't comment on it.

- If you are going to cast Curaga in battle, make sure you have Blink active (and also Stoneskin, if you can manage it). This takes very careful time management, so practice it before you try it in critical situations!

Divine Seal philosophy:

Divine Seal is always best used with your most efficient Cure or Curaga spell. However, it also draws twice the normal hate due to increased healing. Be prepared with Blink (and Stoneskin if possible) whenever using Divine Seal.


Icemage

[Calianeri]

- Use Cure III as primary healing spell once it hits 180+

This may change soon with Regen II, but I can still get too much hate if I use Cure III several times. But it hasn't been necessary to use it that much. Regen I and repeated Cure II keeps me low on the hate list and keeps my tanks near the yellow/white HP border in most battles. However, Cure III and sealed Cure II are no longer surefire attention-getters, which is quite nice.

What you use will also vary somewhat by party. So if your usual method of curing isn't working (people dropping too low in HP or you getting too much hate), change your strategy. I usually play in pick-up parties, which causes me to change my methods a bit day to day. But don't compromise too much -- you need to step up or even leave if your party isn't cooperating (puller won't stick around for a Regen, pulling too fast/too hard so you go low on MP, etc).

[Edarion]

I guess my method for curing is pretty unique from what I read on these boards. I'm an Everquest veteran so I think that heavily influences the way that I play FFXI. In Everquest, clerics (WHM equivelent) get a spell called complete heal, which actually heals somewhere in the neighbourhood of 5000 hp. What people would do is let a tank get down to about 40% health, and then cast Complete Heal. They would then sit and meditate to regain some mana, and repeat the process when the tank reaches 40% again. I have transferred this same strategy over to FFXI. The way I usualy approach a combat situation is to cast regen on the tank as soon as the fight begins, toss my enfeebling spells, and then use whatever cure it would take to max out the tanks HP he lost in the process of my enfeebling. At this point I sit and rest. Now 1 of two things happens from this point on. I usually wait for a tick of magic to replenish before I stand up and cast my largest cure on the primary tank. Usually by the time a tick of magic is replenished the tank has done enough damage and provoked to the point where my Cure 3 (179 HP) does not draw agro. I then sit down and wait for another tick of magic to replenish. Now of course if the tank is being damaged faster than your Cure 3 every tick of magic is ready to be cast, then you might need to add a Cure 2 right after or even another Cure 3. Sometimes I can even go as long as two ticks of magic before having to cure, which gives me back 36 points of magic. That's a significant amount. I personally do not see why someone would cast 6 Cure 1s, when a Cure 3 would do the same thing and give you the time to rest for a tick of magic which would negate the fact that Cure 3 might not be as mana efficient yet, but in my case it is more so. Agro is not an issue here either, because agro from curing is based on the amount of HP cured. If you cast 6 cure 1s for 30 each, you've gained 180 points of agro. Waiting until the point where you *would* have cast that sixth cure and instead casting Cure 3 would draw the same amount of agro in the same period of time. Now of course having a tank that can mitigate damage well is the key to this strategy. This would not work if you have a DRK serving as your primary tank, I doubt they could go 15 seconds without a cure during a combat. Almost every tank I have grouped with was kept significantly enough above the point of death where there is very little risk to doing this. Be it a Taru Taru Samurai or a Galkan Paladin. Now when fighting Pugils or Bats, anything that does a large amount of damage through their TP ability it is wise to try to keep the tanks HP above the point where this would become a threat.

Every single WHM I have grouped with has never used my strategy, they have stood throughout the entire combat and chain cast smaller cure spells, it may keep the tank topped off, but it's not very mana efficient in my mind. I as a lowly Hume WHM have managed to come out of almost every fight against an IT monster with close to 75% of my magic remaining with plenty of time to rest from that in the time it takes to pull another IT mob. I've never gotten any complaints on my tactics but people do keep asking, "Why is the WHM sitting in the middle of combat?". I've never lost a tank to not being cured during a normal combat so I see no reason to not continue this to ever high levels. Any thoughts or comments on this would be appreciated and could be the basis for a serious discussion on this topic.

[Icemage]

You will find at higher levels that you simply don't have 30 seconds to rest during fights. A tank with 40% HP with a resting WHM at level 40 is a dead tank.

Examples:

Level 45 Elvaan Paladin/Warrior has around 900 HP. You would normally fight things like Helm Beetles in Quicksand Caves around this level, so...

Helm Beetle critical attack: 100+
Helm Beetle Power Attack special: 150-300

If your Elvaan PLD (arguably one of the best tanks at this level) has 40% HP, he's down to 360HP. Helm Beetles get Double Attack on occasion, so now you're looking at possibility of:

Critical + Critical + Special Attack within 5 seconds. Total potential damage upwards of 500.

Even with no critical hits and no double attack, your tank is now deep in the red( <200 HP), and you now have to:

Get up
Target the tank
Cast a Cure spell (probably chaincast, since your tank is almost dead... which means you're going to now get hit)

Ask yourself: Can you do this before your tank dies?

If you're fighting Sand Spiders, they can Sickle Scythe for 700+ damage. That's instant death for your tank unless he's close to full to start. Liches in Eldieme can cast Tornado for 700-900 damage at level 50. Exorays in Crawler's Nest can Silence Gas or Dark Spore for 900. Explosures in Garlaige can explode for... well.. too much (and yes, you HAVE to fight these last 3 enemies to pass level 50).

Things get worse at higher levels. I'm fighting Robber Crabs at level 52. They hit for ~80 damage on normal hits on a decent tank, 120-200 vs. a mage (higher on a crit). Big Scissors attack from a Robber Crab can hit for 300+ damage. Bubble Shower can do 250+ area effect.

Still think you've got 30 seconds to rest? :p


Icemage

[Edarion]

30 seconds is two ticks of mana regen, 15 seconds for one. At level 36 I rarely see the tank go below ~60 percent in about 15 seconds so I have no problems yet. I can't speak for higher levels because I have not reached that point yet

[locus]

Reply to Icemage:

Cure V = 135 mp and makes cure 4 obsolete. You should not ever be using Cure IV after you get cure V.

Cure IV = 2X power of Cure III, Hate = 2X Cure III
(cap 360++)

Cure V = 3X power of Cure III, Hate = Cure III
(Restores up to 660 HP++)

Yes, it is a very expensive spell, but you use it for the same reason as Cure IV(emergencies) and it guarantees that the monster won't turn around and start chasing you.

[Icemage]

Wow. I didn't know Cure V had less aggro potential than Cure IV. Can't wait to get it, then! :spin:

Thanks for the clarification, Locus!


Icemage

[Falconi]

I know this strategy from Everquest.
But you have one very big disadvantage in FFXI. The time you need to sit down and get back up. In EQ it was a matter of mili-seconds in FFXI depending on lag it takes 2-3 seconds. Way too long if you ask me.
I'm not that high lvl, only lvl 27 yet. But if we fight a lvl 30+ goblin and he uses it bombtoss and can be critical and I just don't have the time to wait for my character to stand up.

Also since there is no complete heal and Cure3 is maxxed out for me yet I have a much better ratio using Cure2.

The mana I would waste on the not maxxed Cure3 pretty much compensates your mana you regain through resting I believe.

[Issaac]

@Edarion

I disagree and agree. I also sit and rest in battle a lot and frequently. Especialy when grouping with paladins as main tank. I throw in my debuffs, a regen on puller (Main tank go regen a few sec before incoming) and sit down.Now the paladin begins to heal self to get more and more agro. With redmage refresh im normaly Full mana now and stand up watching the process. Im healing right when i feal there is enough dmg for a Cure 2, i rarely use Cure 3 (it does 180+ for me). The generated hate is a lot lower for Cure 2.

But up to lvl 40 i had quit often mobs who used spezialattack which made me afraid of my tank. Pugils screwdriver (killed me instantly one time) or bats jetstream. The dmg of these spezial attacks are so high that you will lose your tank before you actualy standing back again if he/she is a warrior only and not a paladin.

And pass lvl 40 when you have a redmage with you, you are full mana after the fight anyway. This refresh is more addictive then my clarity 3 was )) Did i mentioned that i love redmages and refresh

[Edarion]

It's all a matter of damage output of the monster you are currently fighting. If it can take your tank below 50% life in the span of 15 seconds, I would recommend standing the entire fight. Down time will suck, but oh well. To this point I have not encountered a monster where I have to do this though.

[Pilsbane]

My partner, Nylia, is a Whitemage so I see exactly what she does. Normally she does the stand-up and heal number through fights. The advantage we have is when she gets low on MP and I still have a lot I tell her to sit down and I take over heals for a bit so she can get a tic or 2 of MP-regen then she takes back over. Works like a charm and keeps our chains going. I don't look at just my MP bar but my bar and her bar together and how we can make the most effective use of it. I'd rather run out of MP than her because I can always convert.