Post 2-hander adjustment makes WAR/BLU possible?

[Armando]

Re: Post 2-hander adjustment makes WAR/BLU possible?

Headbutt Stun will hardly proc. When it does, it won't last long. It's still the third best damage spell a WAR/BLU has though (behind Bludgeon and Battle Dance.)

The DMG rating doesn't matter, it's capped by /30 BLU anyways. What hurts your DMG is that your Attack is based off of your Blue Magic Skill.

[Lmnop]

Re: Post 2-hander adjustment makes WAR/BLU possible?

The DMG rating doesn't matter, it's capped by /30 BLU anyways. What hurts your DMG is that your Attack is based off of your Blue Magic Skill.

...and what helps is that it barely cuts into your auto attack time. It's like MP Attack, FFXI style. Spend some MP, get some extra damage, no sizable drawback.

[Armando]

Re: Post 2-hander adjustment makes WAR/BLU possible?

Yeah, that's true. The big queston is not so much whether it helps, but whether it helps more than throwing a Wild Carrot at yourself.

[Icemage]

Re: Post 2-hander adjustment makes WAR/BLU possible?

I've been using WAR/BLU to push up my WAR subjob the last couple of days. It's working pretty well up through level 19 so far.

Prior to 16, it was pretty worthless without Cocoon, but the combination of Provoke + Cocoon is really, really strong. It's DEFINITELY stronger than WAR/MNK at lower levels since you can basically get the equivalent of Monk's HP Bonus trait using Blue Magic bonuses.

I can't tell how good this will be later on, but the change to 2h damage makes tanking with Cocoon and a great axe very viable.


Icemage

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Post 2-hander adjustment makes WAR/BLU possible?

For low level tanking, is it worth it to trade Boost for Cocoon?

Tanking on BLU/WAR, keeping the critters from my friend playing bow RNG was hard when I miss a big attack spell or two after right after first Provoke. Boost seems ideal for ensuring enough enmity generation when the big axe whiffs.

[Armando]

Re: Post 2-hander adjustment makes WAR/BLU possible?

Can't speak from experience, but probably. Cocoon lets you use Berserk + Meat, whereas on /MNK you're using either Defense food and maybe Berserk depending on damage, or Meat and no Berserk at all. Accuracy shouldn't be an issue at all with the two-handed update and the wonders of Shield Break so you get to squeeze every bit of goodness out of the massive Attack boost.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Post 2-hander adjustment makes WAR/BLU possible?

I guess I'm just an old fashion WAR/MNK fan; it's hard to give up the certainty of enmity from Boost for a "likely good enough accuracy to assume first two hits from Great Axe would land."

[Celeal]

Re: Post 2-hander adjustment makes WAR/BLU possible?

/off topic

As for BLU tanking at from Dunes to Qufim Island, /war provoke is not even necessary. However, from my experience "Stun-Lock" using Head Butt spam and let war or nin/war or pld/war to tank is more effective than BLU tanking. When the party as 2+ BLU Stun-locking the mob, the mob is even more helpless.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Post 2-hander adjustment makes WAR/BLU possible?

As for BLU tanking at from Dunes to Qufim Island, /war provoke is not even necessary.

I wouldn't be so optimistic; that depends on the DDs.

My RNG friend actually did less total damage than either BLUs (my sister and myself), but was able to take the monster away after first Provoke from time to time.

The problem is that he was pulling, which means shooting from maximum distance. If he crit hit that, and toss in another one or two 70-80 dmg /RA damage after my Provoke, he will be tanking unless I can land a big damage attack spell before that.

Without Provoke, I don't think I would be tanking much at all, unless I really burn the MP fast. Plus, he can also toss out 120+ dmg bow WS, to make tanking even worse for me. x_x;

If you have bad DDs and excellent MP recovery, sure, Bludgeon and Head Butt all the way through battle, and you won't need a Provoke. If dealing with a well geared bow RNG (or THF using SA+Fast Blade) and a moderately fast pull rate, though, Provoke is a big help, if not a must.

However, from my experience "Stun-Lock" using Head Butt spam and let war or nin/war or pld/war to tank is more effective than BLU tanking. When the party as 2+ BLU Stun-locking the mob, the mob is even more helpless.

"Stune-locking" for NIN/WAR sounds good, but other two members of my trio think partying in Valkurm Dunes and Qufim Island is beneath contempt. ._. I'm probably locked into BLU+BLU+RNG until Lv.30 or something, so going to be BLU/WAR tank for a while yet.

[Icemage]

Re: Post 2-hander adjustment makes WAR/BLU possible?

Can't speak from experience, but probably. Cocoon lets you use Berserk + Meat, whereas on /MNK you're using either Defense food and maybe Berserk depending on damage, or Meat and no Berserk at all. Accuracy shouldn't be an issue at all with the two-handed update and the wonders of Shield Break so you get to squeeze every bit of goodness out of the massive Attack boost.

Berserk with Cocoon isn't even a concern on WAR/BLU. You can basically leave Berserk on for as long as it lasts unless you're tanking an Incredibly Tough enemy which doesn't hit the diminishing returns on Defense.

Regarding Cocoon vs. Boost/Counter, it's not quite that simple. If you're a cook like me and can make juices in the field, you can use Pollen, paired with appropriate +Enmity gears (Cache-Nez, Dash Belt, Breath Mantle) and basically lock hate on yourself much more consistently than WAR/MNK can with Boost (I've tried it both ways - WAR/BLU is way more consistent than WAR/MNK). I imagine that Wild Carrot would serve a similar purpose at higher levels, but I don't have firsthand experience on that.

I'm very happy with my ability to hold hate as WAR/BLU. Enmity bleed is minimal due to high DEF/VIT, damage is good because of 2H axes. Shield Break is godly at low levels. Easily the most powerful of the level 10 weaponskills.


Icemage

[Lmnop]

Re: Post 2-hander adjustment makes WAR/BLU possible?

Berserk with Cocoon isn't even a concern on WAR/BLU. You can basically leave Berserk on for as long as it lasts unless you're tanking an Incredibly Tough enemy which doesn't hit the diminishing returns on Defense.
Regarding Cocoon vs. Boost/Counter, it's not quite that simple. If you're a cook like me and can make juices in the field, you can use Pollen, paired with appropriate +Enmity gears (Cache-Nez, Dash Belt, Breath Mantle) and basically lock hate on yourself much more consistently than WAR/MNK can with Boost (I've tried it both ways - WAR/BLU is way more consistent than WAR/MNK). I imagine that Wild Carrot would serve a similar purpose at higher levels, but I don't have firsthand experience on that.
I'm very happy with my ability to hold hate as WAR/BLU. Enmity bleed is minimal due to high DEF/VIT, damage is good because of 2H axes. Shield Break is godly at low levels. Easily the most powerful of the level 10 weaponskills.
Icemage

-Even with Berserk up, you have defense food-level defense.
-Enmity-wise, War/mnk can equip that stuff too
-Don't forget Signet for mp consumption pre-burn levels (which is basically every level you'd have Signet anyway)
-Shield Break is arguably the best WS in the game. >.>

That is all.

[Icemage]

Re: Post 2-hander adjustment makes WAR/BLU possible?

-Even with Berserk up, you have defense food-level defense.

Yup. And then some. I'm finding that Defense food is a waste of time when using WAR/BLU. Attack food (rice dumplings, meatkabobs, et. al.) or enmity food (dorado sushi) seems to work much better.

-Enmity-wise, War/mnk can equip that stuff too

Oh, absolutely. But from personal experience, Pollen with enmity+ gears is way outperforming Boost for enmity gain and definitely so for enmity control since that's HP that your healers don't have to heal (and rack up their own enmity for). The trick is that you need MP for it, which is why juicing is so very important.

-Don't forget Signet for mp consumption pre-burn levels (which is basically every level you'd have Signet anyway)

Mmm... Signet's main bonus now is that resting doesn't burn away TP, which makes resting for MP somewhat viable in the early parts of a chain. Saves me some juice materials, but otherwise doesn't do much else.

-Shield Break is arguably the best WS in the game. >.>

Probably true. I'm also pretty partial to Tachi: Enpi in the early levels though. Great damage, great accuracy, and forms either half of the ever-so-useful Distortion skillchain.


Icemage

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Post 2-hander adjustment makes WAR/BLU possible?

-Shield Break is arguably the best WS in the game. >.>

I think the two hander changes has made Sturmwind leap frog Shield Break when it comes to GAxe WSs. With the 2H change, Sturmwind is that much more damaging, and Shield Break's accuracy down becomes less useful (provided the party is heavy on 2H DD and light on 1H/h2h DD).

[Armando]

Re: Post 2-hander adjustment makes WAR/BLU possible?

That's assuming everyone's hit rate is over 75% though (such that part of the 20% accuracy increase Shield Break gives would be wasted.) Even then, you could start Armor Breaking in a few levels and you'd still come out winning. Half a Sturmwind's worth of damage + 33% higher Attack/Defense Ratio for everyone would be better, I think.

[Karinya]

Re: Post 2-hander adjustment makes WAR/BLU possible?

You can compromise on BRD and just do the three-buff cycle for an MP/Melee PT, but its harder to break it down to that on COR if the PT also nags for that EXP gimmick buff we have and then a melee buff. I just can't do Corsair's Roll for that setup and people get fussy.

That's why SE gave you guns: so when people whine for corsair's roll, you can shoot them in the head. It's not like they were using their heads anyway or they wouldn't be asking for corsair's roll.