The full explanation on Hide (and Hide+SA) mechanics

[Narru]

Well I can confirm Hidedama works on Blazer Beetles in Crawler's Nest without sneak or deodorize.

Start off behind the mob (where I spend 95% of all fights) - not sure if you being in front / behind the mob makes a difference on if Hide woks initially or not.

1. Disengage autoattack
2. SA + TA
3. Hide
4. Run behind the main tank, to the front of the mob
5. Autoattack

Fuidama damage is done, and it's not on me, so I conclude that hidedama was successful.

Have not tested on sound aggro mobs yet.

[kanomjeeb]

I tried it with crabs and a friend tanking.

disengage > sneak att > trick att > deorderize > hide > attack = fail.

disengage > sneak att > trick att > deorderize > sneak (spell) > hide > attack = fail.

for me, if i already had aggro on mob's hate list, i wouldnt be able to do hide-dama by any way(did try running away out of the aggro range too), but if i did it w/o any initial aggro, i succeeded.

... is it just me?

PS. All tests were done with crabs, bats

[Viktoria]

I had the same experience. I couldn't pull it off in a party where I had any amount of hate on myself to begin with. I tried it with Sneak tonight, a combination of Deo & Sneak, nothing. So does this mean this tweak is no good for an exp party setup?

[peet]

Undead: aggro by scent from a far distance if your HP is yellow or lower.

Orcs: aggro by sight but track by sight and scent for some reason. How do I know this? Well try aggroing a bunch of orcs in Davoi and then hide you will almost always be spotted.

Yagudo: aggro by sight and only track by sight. I've got a 100% success rate from hiding from Yagudo.

Goblins: not really sure actually.

[ibroyles]

Originally posted by peet
Goblins: not really sure actually.

Goblins just aggro and track by sight as well.

[BuriGuri]

First saw it today in dragons aery, fighting spiders and flies (both sound aggro)
pt setup was, nin rng thf blm brd rdm

Previously the main reason I hate thf is the requirement for setup at the start of the fight, causing the other melee to get heavily damaged, and hence kinda ruins the point of ninja tank in the first place. Hence if I get to invite a thf (out of no drk/mnk avalaible admittedly), I usually ask for the thf to do fuidama during WS only, especially with rng in the seutp.

I must say I'm impressed. IMHO the best fact that it actually works on any mob, as long as you have 0 hate at the start.
ie. the mob hasnt aggro you and you havent hit it.
Fight goes something like this, on tp build mobs : I just provoke straight from the start and he will prepare sneak trick, hide, then finally attack. 500 damage on me at the start is very very handy =). Midfight, I have secured enough aggro that even if he trick sneak unto the ranger, it doesnt usually turn. This is from aninja, I imagine pld would hold aggro even better.

on mobs to be skillchained, well the thf just.....kills lol.
I will have to experiment abit more with thf, but as long as the thief dont have huge ego (I see many many thfs are so concerned about doing as much damage as possible that they make hate go all over the place), you can count me on inviting more thiefs into the PT.

only downside I see to this is that on sound aggro mob I imagine this wouldnt work if the thf is doing the pulling.

[Display]

I can confirm this, I was trying to think if I was the thief in buriguri PT, but I wasnt. But hideama only works in parties if the monster has not detected you at all.

so skillchain 5 example:

1) hideama
2) skillchain
3) hideama
4) skillchain
5) hideama
6) skillchain ~

and if all goes well you will Never have a monk, ranger etc tanking. Because on skillchain battles the alternate melee will turn agro with WS. so the thief can always be behind the tank.

So if you want this to work you can NOT hit the monster, SA/TA then hide, then engage. And buri last time I checked your nin was 68 and Im a 71 thief, currently leveling samurai SJ for RNG+THF pts. Look me up if you need a realiable thf to go to 75 with.

[meboz]

nothing at all in the game aggros to scent.
everything tracks by whatever it aggros to... it's just that many mobs also track by scent in addition to what they aggro to.

skeles aggro to sound and low health... but do not track by scent at all.
it seems that they have a shorter sound aggro range than other mobs that aggro by sound... which is why it seems to me that skeles are easier to use hide on mid-fight

[guyincorporated]

Originally posted by Display
But hideama only works in parties if the monster has not detected you at all.

Hidedama works mid-fight on skeletons and goblins, I can confirm this through personal experience. It really bugs me that deodorize still won't let you do hideama against smell-trackers like quadavs.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by guyincorporated
Hidedama works mid-fight on skeletons and goblins, I can confirm this through personal experience.

However, it won't work on undead if you are at low HP. You will be spotted.

[guyincorporated]

Originally posted by Spider-Dan
However, it won't work on undead if you are at low HP. You will be spotted.

Ah, good to know.

[Drynavere]

Yeah just a quick question about all this Hideama stuff.... Why on earth would you need to do this in a party?

I don't understand fuly =/.

You have a PLD as your tank say, and then you the THF to SATA onto the PLD, and a trick buddy for when ur in the battle to quickly voke so you can SATA onto the PLD again....

But my question is.... why would you have to hide and deodorize and sneak and do all that jazz, if your not going to have the agro anyways?... Does something I don't know about change past lvl 45?

[Deodorant]

Originally posted by peet
Undead: aggro by scent from a far distance if your HP is yellow or lower.

Semi-wrong. You are right in that undead aggro low HP, however calling it "aggro by scent" is wrong because it naturally leads to the (mistaken) conclusion that deodorize would protect against low HP aggro (it doesn't).

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by Drynavere
Yeah just a quick question about all this Hideama stuff.... Why on earth would you need to do this in a party?

Hidedama allows you to do SA+TA(+WS) on the tank even when the mob is facing him.

[Drynavere]

Ohhhh so you wouldn't have to be behind the mob...?

Or you would just be behind the mob for SATA still, and then when u hide it would automatically assume that the tank did the dmg because you are hidden?