Warrior great, why not Dark Knight? [sub]

[Starcrossed]

Something been bothering me for awhile... I'm level 50+ thief.

The two most common subjobs for thief as /ninja and /warrior. This is my understanding of why:

/ninja: Best puller with Utsusmi, dual wield gains TP faster, and you can wear offhand weapons for stats. Also adds more agility and dexterity than warrior, dual wield + triple attack gives you most number of attacks in the game since you get two chances at triple.

/warrior: Relies on attack stat to deal more damage. Has berserk, passive attack up, and warcry. Higher strength. Good at dealing damage through high defense. Can stack double and triple attack, however there is a conflict which blocks one if the other works sometimes. Not as good at pulling, better at fighting. Also, I guess having both double and triple attack means your dancing edge would be more likely to get more than 5 hits.

What has bothered me is at the high end of the game, where thief/warrior is so common, why is there not a single thief/drk? Looking at it, it seems to be better than warrior in almost every way when it comes to damage dealing as thief, and yet they don't exist so I MUST be missing something critical. After all, if drk/thf is so amazing at level 60+, why would thief/drk be unplayably bad?

Compare:

/dark knight: Highest attack power because you get 3 passive attack up, and last resort which is equivalent to berserk however only usable on sneak attack because of short duration. Soul eater also adds even more damage, however I have heard that it only adds 5% of your hp as damage when subbed, which works out to around 50 damage at level 60. You don't get double attack, and the stats added are similar to warrior. At the end of the game (75) you get absorb agi and absorb dex, talk about helping your damage even more. I won't mention other drk spells because they don't help as subjob.

Would /drk usually blow /war out of the water for sneak/trick/ws damage? Even on normal hits, if you don't cancel your soul eater right away, you can add a lot of damage to your attacks that ignore defense, because you attack so fast.

Anyone have any reasons why it'd be so bad?

[Harem]

Well if you were in Carbuncle there would be only one THF/DRK.. me and I don't think there is a thing wrong with it.

I am currently level 41/17 Mithra with fair equipment.

The other day I was in Crawler's Nest fighting Soldiers and I was hitting for just as much and sometimes more than another Mithra THF41/NIN20 with better equipment than mine.

Well thats all I have to say.

oh and btw we both had Meat Mithkabobs active at the time.

[Kousai]

in theory it sounds like it would be pretty cool... hrm..

[Akari]

DRK JA are massive taunts... so unless you know how to sneak/trick with a mob facing you its back to subbing nin or war.
Also being a 50+ thf im sure your familure with what happens when you do get hit. If you were to get hit with DRK ja up.... ow.


Edit: I forgot Thf's SJ are also based mostly on incresed tp gain. Seeing your using dagger. (Double attack, dual weild). Its not so much about damage because you do so much even without sub ja to power you up.

[Disturbed]

you'd die from pulling~



coeurls, pugils and raptors do nasty fast attack and dmg, thf/nin or whm would be the only ones that can do longer pulls safely

as thf/war on longer pulls i'm always down to the low end of orange hp, and if the provoker is slow i'm down to 100 hp in no time

[Starcrossed]

I found another flaw in my original post too... Drk only get their third attack up at level 50, so if you sub it you'll always only get two attack ups. So basically:

Drk: Passive Attack Up I and II, Last Resort (30 seconds), Soul Eater (1 min)

War: Passive Attack Up I, Berserk (3 mins), War Cry (30s), Double Attack.

I can see now that warrior is probably better in combat, mainly because of longer berserk duration, and double attack is probably better than soul eater for a thief.

As for last resort attracting aggro, if you're partying with a paladin I can't say I've seen those JA make the mob turn just by activating them, but the mob would turn if a main drk starts whacking the mob for 150+. Thief/Drk would instead put that damage back onto the tank.

Ok, I'll stick with my /ninja then

Thanks for your responses.

[Disturbed]

things like souleater and last resort do create alot of hate, i've pt with a drk in my LS several times and he just turns it on and gets hate~

souleater etc are like nerfed benediction XD

[Izual]

Last resort actually isn't equivalent to berserk, berserk increases attack more AND lasts 6 times longer. And generates less hate by being activated. Basically, berserk >>> LR.

Also, the magic thing wouldn't work. With drk subbed, your dark magic would be way too low to ever land spells on exp mobs. My dark magic is 246, and I still get resisted a lot:mad:

Souleater would actually be pretty cool though, since thf attacks so fast. Overall I'd say you're better off to stick with nin, but it might be an interesting combo to try for fun

[John Doe III]

You guys forgot about the HP deduction from Soul Eater?

[Beener]

One note, THF/WAR and THF/NIN both can attack 6 times, as double and triple attack stack.

[guyincorporated]

You're also forgetting that however much hate is generated by darkknight abilities, they will be miniscule compared to the hate generated by all the other members of the group. A drk can get aggro from using his abilities as he is consistently hitting for 110 with a scythe. As far as the monster is concerned, all a thief does is hit it for 10 damage with a dagger every 2 or 3 seconds. I highly doubt that a couple of drk abilites will turn a mob around when a thief is doing his job properly.

[Kastel]

A long time ago, THF job was pretty useless. Everyone could sub it and do massive damage with Sneak attack, as if they were a "today THF" Basically THF job was pretty attack, as if they were a "today THF" Basically Thf job was pretty useless. Also back in the day, a THF 60/DRK 30 could so SA+TA＋Dancing Edge +SOULEATER for nearly 2000＋　Just like sneak attack for sub, souleater for sub got nerfed too. Stick with NIN or WAR

[surlung]

as a thf, ur weapon is very fast with tripple attack procs too... you will waste alot of mage's mp if you used soul eater. plus, don't even think about comparing berserk and last resort.... last resort sucks..

warcry, berserk, double attack and emergency provoke, wins hands down.

[Vertigo]

Originally posted by surlung
as a thf, ur weapon is very fast with tripple attack procs too... you will waste alot of mage's mp if you used soul eater. plus, don't even think about comparing berserk and last resort.... last resort sucks..

warcry, berserk, double attack and emergency provoke, wins hands down.

Double attack creates more trouble than its worth imo, and provoke is REALLY useless in xp parties as there is NO WAY that you can get hate off a tank.

[surlung]

Originally posted by Vertigo


Double attack creates more trouble than its worth imo, and provoke is REALLY useless in xp parties as there is NO WAY that you can get hate off a tank.

hence the "emergency" prefix. I didn't say anything more.

anyway, may i ask what trouble double attack creates?