THF races

[DrSerpico]

Elements

Whether a stat affects a ws or not depends on what element it corresponds too.

Impaction type WS's = Dexterity
Scission type WS's = Vitality
Liquefaction type WS's = Strength
And so on...

Someone wrote down what element the different stats correlate too... I'm too lazy to find it tho, so you'll have to hunt alone. ^^
Good luck!

[ibroyles]

Re: Elements

What's with the sig DrSerpico? I kind of find that offensive being an Elvaan THF, and I also find it pretty hard to believe that Elvaan THFs are "utter shit." I don't know why you'd want to just parade that all over the forum. I mean maybe I'm wrong to be spending hundred's of thousands on equips and I'm still going to be outdamage 300-400 on WS's at higher level?! I truly hope that's an exaggeration.

Anyways, thanks for the post, if you're correct this should be the list of stats that correspond to WS's

Liquefation: STR
Impaction: DEX
Scission: VIT
Detonation: AGI
Induration: INT
Reverberation: MND
Transfixion: CHR
Compression: ? (MP)?

So by this logic Dancing Edge(which has both Scission and Detonation effect) is 50% VIT, 50% AGI. However, I'm not sure if it would be 50/50 as the Detonation is the lower priority for skillchains. Another intresting thing to point out is that Shark Bite is Fragmentation so it should in theory be affected 50% DEX 50% AGI, which makes sense for THF.

[Omena]

http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Part/6371/memo.html

That's where I got the 50% DEX 50% CHR. It's all in Japanese and I can't read all of it, so I don't know how they got these results, but it looks good to me. I'm not yet at L60 so I can't test the CHR thing myself yet.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Re: Elements

Originally posted by ibroyles
What's with the sig DrSerpico? I kind of find that offensive being an Elvaan THF, and I also find it pretty hard to believe that Elvaan THFs are "utter shit." I don't know why you'd want to just parade that all over the forum. I mean maybe I'm wrong to be spending hundred's of thousands on equips and I'm still going to be outdamage 300-400 on WS's at higher level?! I truly hope that's an exaggeration.

Serpico's sig is a bit harsh, but there is truth in it. Looking at raw stats, the difference between an ELV and MIT at 60 is ~14 DEX AND 14 AGI. That's a huge chunk and there's no way you can compensate this with gear. You can't even come close.

Throw in the SATA damage formula (on this board somewhere) and you can see how much a difference that makes.

I gave up the ELV THF crusade a long time ago when I realized this. Sure you can still be an good thf if you play well and get top noch gear, but this is relative. Given another player with the same skill and same gear playing a different race, you will suck (again relative to the other race).

[ibroyles]

Re: Re: Re: Elements

OK, so I did a little research like you said. The only stat calculator I found went up to 59, so here should be the stats at 59, as well as what SA/TA should do(base). If anybody knows of a better stat calculator which goes all the way up to 75, please post a link, I've been looking for one for a while. Anyways, the one I'm using is here
and the SA/TA calculator is here .
(Sneak trick calculator set to totetote high def mobs.)

LV59 Mithra THF/NIN:
STR: 50
DEX: 76
AGI: 68
WPN: D25(just for control)
Minimum Damage: 0
Maximum Damage: 10
Critical Hit Maximu Damage: 35
Backstub ave: 136
Backstub Maximum: 187
BS+Deceived ave: 250
BS+Deveived Maximum: 339

LV59 Elvaan THF/NIN:
STR: 60
DEX: 62
AGI: 54
WPN: D25(control)
Minimum Damage: 0
Maximum Damage: 20
Critical Hit Maximu Damage: 45
Backstub ave: 125
Backstub Maximum: 169
BS+Deceived ave: 218
BS+Deveived Maximum: 293

Now, that's just on a regular "sneak + trck," so I don't know how the damage might get multiplied with a "sneak + trick + DE," but that is only on average about 30 more damage done by a regular sneak/trick by mithra. This is exactly as I figured. I have +20DEX right now and I know that it doesn't make too big of a difference, from personal experience. It does definately add damage, but its not anywhere close to 300-400 damage.

[neighbortaru]

yup those were the resources I used as well.

WS damage is the unknown formula. If it is a multiplicative equation rather than additive (which I'm inclined to believe) then this would further exaggerate the difference. Whether this is enough to show a 300-400 difference, I don't know. Probably not, I'm guessing it will be more in the 100-200 range. /shrug

[ibroyles]

Originally posted by neighbortaru
yup those were the resources I used as well.

WS damage is the unknown formula. If it is a multiplicative equation rather than additive (which I'm inclined to believe) then this would further exaggerate the difference. Whether this is enough to show a 300-400 difference, I don't know. Probably not, I'm guessing it will be more in the 100-200 range. /shrug

That's what I'm guessing too. Don't get me wrong, I still think that Mithras are at a definite advantage(especially because of the multiplicative properties associated with WS's). Anyways, I still think Elvaan THFs(at least to good ones) tend to surprise parties that underestimate them, as many seem to.

[Spider-Dan]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Elements

Originally posted by ibroyles
Anyways, the one I'm using is here
and the SA/TA calculator is here

That calculator is broken. Try entering in 1 or 99 AGI and notice how the results don't change at all. It doesn't factor in AGI.

[ibroyles]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Elements

Originally posted by Spider-Dan
That calculator is broken. Try entering in 1 or 99 AGI and notice how the results don't change at all. It doesn't factor in AGI.

You're right Spider-dan :mad:, thanks for pointing that out . Now I'm curious, but I don't have time to do a manual calculation. I will post results later when I have time.

[neighbortaru]

it does if you've fixed the javascript

using the same setup as ibroyles, we have
[code]Elvaan
Minimum Damage: 0
Maximum Damage: 25
Critical Hit Maximu Damage: 50
Backstub ave: 130
Backstub Maximum: 174
BS+Deceived ave: 211
BS+Deveived Maximum: 282
[/code]
[code]Mithra
Minimum Damage: 0
Maximum Damage: 15
Critical Hit Maximu Damage: 40
Backstub ave: 141
Backstub Maximum: 192
BS+Deceived ave: 243
BS+Deveived Maximum: 328
[/code]

[Odepa]

From my experience, try something simple:

1.Use Calveleys dagger (+3 dex dmg 14 dly183) in the off hand, take notes on regular damage and SATA damage, then switch to Mythril Baselard +1(dmg 14 dly181)... wow!!! And thats only +3Dex.
2.Use Savage Gaiters (+3Str) and you will notice that regular hits do more damage, but SATA damage is less than wearing +Agi +Dex eq.
3.Use Bone knife+1 instead of Calveleys Dagger and TP will go up Faster.

My point is that every stat is important, but you have to find a way to mix those stats according to the PT, SATA partner and SC partner.

[ibroyles]

Originally posted by neighbortaru
it does if you've fixed the javascript

using the same setup as ibroyles, we have
...

Thanks, neighbortaru!

[meboz]

if you're going to severely gimp your offhand ....

why would you use calvely's dagger over AF1?