SMN/BRD maybe?

[Username2]

Ok I was just wondering.
Well I know SMN are stuck filling the whm role 95% of the time.
So I was just wondering, for those rare times your not needed as the main healer, how whould a brd sub work.
Im a taru so MP loss wouldnt be much.
I could Sing +ACC songs to try and help the team out.
Mp song as well as debuff(if it sticks).
I think in that case the party would be alot better off.

I just want to hear what you think.
I dont know if the +acc song would even do enough to make a differace, but its a chance to offer more then a rdm sub.
Thanks in advance.

[TheMidg]

Re: SMN/BRD maybe?

Originally posted by Username2
So I was just wondering, for those rare times your not needed as the main healer, how whould a brd sub work.

No.

[Jaggywaggy]

Why don't you keep your WM lvled as your primary sub. But when the day comes you're one of 2-4 mages in the party, including a primary WM/X already there, and there is no brd, why not ask the leader to give it a shot?

[Username2]

well my whm is lvl 65 so I dont need to lvl it.
I've seen lots of JP people doing this latly thats why I ask.
Infact I was the first NA to have all the Avatars on my server about 10 months ago.
I felt the job gimped the party more then helpped it.
But people still loved to invite me.
Then they came out with the lvl20 trash and fenrir and I am no longer wanted.
I spent almost all of my time in jp parties (cause they like to have a smn more then NA tend to)
The purple dog is all they ask for now, sicne I dont have him, I dont have a party.
Lets just face it, bards are SUPER hard to get. Everytime a brd is born he lvls to 75 at light speed or gets drawn into a Static party.
RDM are a dime a dozen.
Its just realy hard to convince a party that a blm isnt needed.
This I know all to well, im also a lvl 66 monk and my damge scores from my test as well as other peoples test show I outdamge a blm basicly everyfight.
Anyways Ive been with rdm/brd also and it didnt seem to make a differance.

Also the people that helpped me get the avatars way back in the day have quit the game. So Im sort of stuck untill i get a high lvl job.

[Oceanfish]

For high level SMN only parties, generally there will be a few people with different subs. BRD sub, BLM sub, RDM sub
It's not viable for a normal experience party and nerfs your character by not being able to sneak and invisible yourself. It's a good bonus sub, but not a staple one.

[Jokerboy1]

i think that sounds pritty cool ^^ tell me how it works for ya ok ^^

[Gryff]

actually smn/brd is fine, as long as you have whm and rdm in the party as well.


I wouldnt do it pre-50 or with any other setup though.

[Oceanfish]

SMN/BRD and WHM in the same party would be a waste, though--at any level before 65/70.
The reason being is that you would have 2 no damage dealers in the party, and most skillchains wouldn't allow WHM to MB with their banishes even, which wouldn't be a good idea anyhow because the better exp areas (Crawler monsters) from 3x-5x are all light resistant.
While you could do maybe like earthen ward and rolling thunder as your main bps, it would still be low damage output.
Furthermore because of your inability to use instrument, etc you are restricted to one song which would be overwritten when you gave the melee madrigal meaning you would have to recast ballad on yourself which=more standing time=less mp resting=not needed downtime.
It's really the same question as "Why doesn't BLM sub SMN?" You just don't get enough from the sub to make it worth using over WHM.

[Rones]

The reason being is that you would have 2 no damage dealers in the party

FYI, its very common to have 2-3 non-dmg dealer support style characters. Whm+brd+rdm make for some very nice support. 5war+1 whm doesn't cut it past valkurm.

[Oceanfish]

Originally posted by Rones
FYI, its very common to have 2-3 non-dmg dealer support style characters. Whm+brd+rdm make for some very nice support. 5war+1 whm doesn't cut it past valkurm.

Very common for a crappy party? If you're pulling less than 4k/hr your party is too slow.

[tazirai]

Re: SMN/BRD maybe?

Originally posted by Username2

Well I know SMN are stuck filling the whm role 95% of the time.

umm no I dont do the gimp whm thing ^^.
Theres a full whm for that . or if you summon well enough damage should be so bad to your PT.
I hate whm SJ so much its sick but im leveling all mage job to 37 for NM HNM reasons.
IF the main whm or rdm/whm cant heal well enough somehting is wrong><

But i think in a SMN SMN SMN BST RDM BLM PT , which happens quite alot after 65. brd sj is okay.

Most SMN PTs i see now are.

SMN SMN SMN SMN RDM BRD
or
SMN SMN SMN BLM BLM RDM
or
SMN SMN SMN BST RDM BLM.

[Kirara]

tarizai you always say how / whm is ... you know

let me ask you one thing, what you do in that 1 min of down time of blood pact? normal level up pt or in hnm hunt, what you do in that 1 min of blood pact cool down ?

[tazirai]

Originally posted by Kirara
tarizai you always say how / whm is ... you know

let me ask you one thing, what you do in that 1 min of down time of blood pact? normal level up pt or in hnm hunt, what you do in that 1 min of blood pact cool down ?

Who me?

Well i dont use whm sub is why ^^
I use teh gympy rdm ^^.
So my role is basically whatever...
Ill list a couple set ups ^^

SMN/RDM = me.
if i have a brd/whm, blm/whm(or blm/rdm)
While traveling to level up area I use stoneskin
our next stop I use blink
At the spot i eat food.. brd does mp up.
i use bunkies pro/shell in addition to normal pro from pld who buffs mainly.
while puller pulls I countdown 55 sec using macro.
then depending on what we are fighting i use debuff on mob. and yes rdm sub some debuff still stick...been doin it for 70 lvls ><
if crab then i am rdm/whm role with cure ups and dispel and crap.
Use enthunder or haste.
regen attackers, dispel mob if need, skill up my dagger or staff.
apply cures if needed. when mons HP = less than 30% do leviathan curaga/erase if needed. rest mp.

for renkei depending on how fast mons die. may or may not use warcry.
and i get a kick out of finishing mons with bunkies petit meteo.


if another PT and say we are fighting raptors.
I do same set up as before.
but this time Pt has whm/blm and rdm/blm. and nin as tank.
whm does his thing.. then i stick regen on attackers.
let the true rdm debuff. and sometimes if i see his dun stick ill attempt mines.
raptors suck with their silly stinky breath.
In that case I save blink and use . haste, stoneskin(sometimes),
tailwhip at fight start, waterIV also,springwater for stat remove.

It all depends on set up and what we are fighting.

Im not hating on whm even though i am leveling it as i said.
I just find it funny that so many consider smn a gimpy whm.
If you got a full whm in your PT.

Whats the difference between a blm/whm,rdm/whm, brd/whm and smn/whm? they are all technically gimp whm if thats the case.
I notice people.. "not saying you"..just think we suck.. I dont.
We need fixing yes but theres ways around everything.
I personally think a SMN contribute more than erase and some cure ups with whm SJ.

I'll use whm SJ one day also once its gets high enough. But as it stands im a pretty gimpy Summoner. I dont have dog(havent actually really tried in like 4 months), and i use RDM SJ. :spin:

also can go here for more info. eve n though i need to update it.


Teh lazy link

[CarbonFibre]

I have thought about this combo before as well (not for myself obviously). It didn't really sound all that great when I thought about it. The only idea that I had was for things like the threnodies. Do threnodies only apply to nuking? Would threnodies even stick with a BRD sub? Would having an avatar out meleeing (something I rarely see people do) do more damage with the relative threnody? I too am disappointed that so many SMNs play their sub more than their main. I don't know if it's just a problem with how the job is structured, or if it's a player-induced mentality.

[tazirai]

Originally posted by CarbonFibre
I too am disappointed that so many SMNs play their sub more than their main. I don't know if it's just a problem with how the job is structured, or if it's a player-induced mentality.

mainly the last thing