What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

[Lmnop]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

As a mindless melee DD, I enjoy having a SCH in my party during many events (the low stress or not-full-alliance ones, particularly) as I don't really need a dedicated healer. So they can toss out some regens and maybe some buffs and then swap to dark arts and nuke stuff for a while. I skimmed a lot of this thread but I got the feeling from the last page that a melee party task feels like a waste of talent to you.

Also, day-of-the-week spells for merit. :O Trigger gear and boost nukes according to day instead of weather. Additional merits increase duration or reduce recast time.

Awesome as that'd be, I think I'd rather get the way-earlier suggested night/day cycle of spells, maybe a couple others, and 2 traits or JAs.

[Aksannyi]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

Also, day-of-the-week spells for merit.

That would be sweet, cue all the SCH rushing out to get their sea obis lol.

[Malacite]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

The way we lessen RDM's broken hold on merits is honestly by giving something else as potent as Refresh or Haste to another job, but another spell.

Well I've said it before and I'll say it again; give Regain to SCH (I would have preferred BLM but it's apparently a White Magic spell) via meriting Addendum: White.

It's a spell no one has currently, and nice as it would be for WHM, I think it's better off in SCH's arsenal (them being war strategists and all)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

Why would SCH need regain, though? See, I can get into manaburn and TP burn PTs just fine - WHM doesn't really have but one of those options and its hard for them to get into the one option of TP burn.

And with all this talk of the "lesser" summons coming, SMN stands a similar chance of getting something like that.

Its a pretty powerful spell to hand out to anyone and way too powerful to grant BRD or COR considering what they already have at thier disposal. I already consider SCH to be on a very high power level, definately above SMN, WHM and RDM in regards to AoE buffs and exceeding nukes that SMN and RDM would be capable of doing.

So I'm of the opinion of giving Regain to anyone not called RDM, BRD, COR or SCH.

[Malacite]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

SCH doesn't have Haste, and Regain is basically the same thing though arguably less powerful (since you're just getting TP and not doing damage) so why the hell not? It's an offensive buff that I believe fits for SCH in terms of flavor.

[Lmnop]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

It's all SCH would ever do. No, if any job gets Regain, it should be one who won't lose something to the bottleneck (i.e. using half or more of their charges on it).

Also, it's all people would ever merit. It's not a merit-level spell as it's a game-changer. SCH would be considered gimp until they had it (fully) merited, making it harder for them to merit it in the first place.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

Simply put - SCH is defensive support for Light Arts and offensive support for Dark Arts. They're different things to different groups and I'd prefer SE keep pushing them in that direction.

I don't see the burning need for SCH to have a melee buff. Its not like I'm dying for merits out here, when I get a TP burn PT, I hold my own just fine and never hear anything about people wishing they had gotten a RDM instead.

WHMs and SMNs can't go out and manaburn per se, so I think unique offensive buffs are something more befitting to them. Regain should either come from a god or someone really proficient with blunt objects.

[Karinya]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

Or better yet, Regain shouldn't exist at all as a castable buff. It's not like the game is in some kind of crisis where melee jobs aren't wanted in parties or endgame events. There might still be a few HNMs where "throw more BLMs at it" is still the preferred strat but for the most part, if there is a melee/mage balance problem, it is that melees are too *strong*, not too weak.

Melees already gain TP just by meleeing, they don't need a buff to gain it faster (although, in fact, they already have several, including Haste, March, and Samurai Roll.)

And if you really need to gain TP outside of combat, that's what Opo-opo Necklace, /SAM and Shikikoyo are for. Although IMO it wouldn't hurt to see either an improved Opo Neck for 70+s that gives twice the TP per sleep pot, or more efficient sleep pot recipes, or both.

Alternatively, Regain could exist as an item... mages have juices for occasional use, why not a tp juice that gives 1, or maybe even 2, bonus tp/tick for a few minutes? (BLU might have to choose, or both kinds could stack like HP and MP drinks currently do.) Something you can use for special fights (BCNMs, DL, Limbus bosses, etc.) but that wouldn't be spammed in ordinary exp situations and change their balance. (At high levels 1 tp is worth at least 2 mp, so be careful with the amounts.)

Charged items that gave TP (either directly, or by a Regain effect) would be another possible alternative, although having multiple copies of a charged item can circumvent the reuse timer. A substantial wait-after-equip timer could restrict swapping in several of the item in rapid succession. If you have to put the item on, wait 5 minutes, and then activate it to gain TP gradually over another minute, I don't think it's going to be swapped in in the middle of a DL fight.

Clearly, the medicated timer on i-wings indicates SE's concern about making it too easy to gain TP without fighting, and I don't think they're wrong to be concerned. But there are situations (outside of ordinary exp or areas full of non-boss mobs) where you don't need the instant power of i-wings but it would be nice to be able to gain some tp gradually over a few minutes.


Finally, returning to the original topic, the problem with designing SCH merits is... they don't need anything. As much as, or even more so than, RDM. You have to give them *something* to merit, but any substantial addition to the job's capability envelope would easily overpower an already very powerful and versatile job.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

Yeah, Regain isn't a must given what's already out there in other jobs. I don't know if I agree that SCH shouldn't get any more spells, but I don't think they really need many more originals, either.

Perhaps the most likely route is they'll just get two new strategems, two traits and no new spells at all. The spells I listed before would be nice to have, but I really wouldn't be bothered if we never got a new spell again.

[Malacite]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

Accession + Regain would be such an amazing tool for HNMs...

[Lmnop]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

72 MP, 3 min recast, 1 tp/tick, 20 tick Regain, yeah?

[Malacite]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

I'm thinking 3/tic the same as in Besieged?

[Aksannyi]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

I can't believe you guys don't see how insanely broken that would be, honestly. SCH is pretty god damn powerful, I don't really think it needs Regain.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

I can't believe you guys don't see how insanely broken that would be, honestly. SCH is pretty god damn powerful, I don't really think it needs Regain.

It's like mad scientists building this uber godly robot...more..MORE....MORE!!!

[Malacite]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

I can't believe you guys don't see how insanely broken that would be, honestly. SCH is pretty god damn powerful, I don't really think it needs Regain.

Except it's not? It has a lot of potential for HNMs that you don't want to melee, but in a meripo it's hardly game breaking. Haste is far more powerful (potentially)