What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

He wasn't, but pretty sure Malacite was. XD

Well yeah, when does Malacite not want something that's broken?

[Karinya]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

1 tp/3 sec would give you the same amount of tp per 3 minutes as a /SAM meditating every 3 minutes - regardless of what your subjob is. (For comparison, imagine a buff that gave you as much +attack as Berserk, regardless of your subjob. And stacked with the real Berserk. Even Minuet isn't that strong IIRC.) Anything stronger would be even more insane than that.

I hope SE has more sense than to ever add that as a castable buff (although as I posted above, I wouldn't mind seeing more options for charged and/or consumable items than just i-wing and sleep/opo neck).

[Malacite]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

Yes, I am serious about Regain.

That said I hadn't thought of the Pidgeonhole factor... shit. Though I'm not sure it'd stick as much as it does with RDM, since SCH can offer up a lot more to a group or event. Though there are certainly bound to be idiots who would do it anyway.


I'd like to debate this seriously for a moment if I may. At 3 a tic that would equate to essentially 1 WS every minute. That might seem like a lot but not really when you consider how fast your average merit party goes.

It's in the context of HNMs where it becomes something of a concern. It would be sweet as hell to be able to feed this to SAM and/or tanks, but would that be crossing the line? I can see the potential for abuse, but there's already far, far worse things that get abused as is in your typical zerg set ups. This would just be the icing on the cake.

It also offers a decent alternative to nuking if you're going to end up coming to support/heal anyway. Tossing out Accession + Enspell & Regain could add some decent power to melee at events where you might not be able to punch through the resists with your nukes.

On that note though it would be nice if SCH had access to some more end game gear, especially elemental magic skill items. A SCH won't ever out damage a BLM per-nuke, but at the same time what's the sense in having Tier IV spells when you'll just get resisted? And let's not turn this into a job vs job argument either. I find one of the most amazing things about SCH is how it liberates and interacts with other mages.

[Aksannyi]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

I knew you weren't serious

He wasn't, but pretty sure Malacite was. XD

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

I knew you weren't serious

[Lmnop]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

You guys actually think I was serious? >.>;; Did none of you pay attention to my ridiculous proposed stats? I basically made a version that'd be so shitty that no one would ever use it.

Welllll anyway, Regain would be cool. But it'd also be terribly broken -- more in the sense that it'd be choosing a job to pigeonhole into a role that it wasn't designed for than of making endgame or what-have-you too easy. It was also cool when PLDs were negating ridiculous amounts of damage with their shields but it was broken, too. And as a very big fan of Great axe, I'm happy to see the 2-handed adjustments rolled back. This is all to say: if it's too good to be true, it is.

Balance before awesome.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

We don't need Regain as a spell in this game. No melee has trouble getting TP with all the Accuracy/Haste/Store TP gear and buffs out there. If they do, they need to try harder at FFXI and spend some time in Assault, Campaign and Sky at minimum.

[Malacite]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

I can't believe you guys don't see how insanely broken that would be, honestly. SCH is pretty god damn powerful, I don't really think it needs Regain.

Except it's not? It has a lot of potential for HNMs that you don't want to melee, but in a meripo it's hardly game breaking. Haste is far more powerful (potentially)

[TheGrandMom]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

I can't believe you guys don't see how insanely broken that would be, honestly. SCH is pretty god damn powerful, I don't really think it needs Regain.

It's like mad scientists building this uber godly robot...more..MORE....MORE!!!

[Aksannyi]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

I can't believe you guys don't see how insanely broken that would be, honestly. SCH is pretty god damn powerful, I don't really think it needs Regain.

[Malacite]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

I'm thinking 3/tic the same as in Besieged?

[Lmnop]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

72 MP, 3 min recast, 1 tp/tick, 20 tick Regain, yeah?

[Malacite]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

Accession + Regain would be such an amazing tool for HNMs...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

Yeah, Regain isn't a must given what's already out there in other jobs. I don't know if I agree that SCH shouldn't get any more spells, but I don't think they really need many more originals, either.

Perhaps the most likely route is they'll just get two new strategems, two traits and no new spells at all. The spells I listed before would be nice to have, but I really wouldn't be bothered if we never got a new spell again.

[Karinya]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

Or better yet, Regain shouldn't exist at all as a castable buff. It's not like the game is in some kind of crisis where melee jobs aren't wanted in parties or endgame events. There might still be a few HNMs where "throw more BLMs at it" is still the preferred strat but for the most part, if there is a melee/mage balance problem, it is that melees are too *strong*, not too weak.

Melees already gain TP just by meleeing, they don't need a buff to gain it faster (although, in fact, they already have several, including Haste, March, and Samurai Roll.)

And if you really need to gain TP outside of combat, that's what Opo-opo Necklace, /SAM and Shikikoyo are for. Although IMO it wouldn't hurt to see either an improved Opo Neck for 70+s that gives twice the TP per sleep pot, or more efficient sleep pot recipes, or both.

Alternatively, Regain could exist as an item... mages have juices for occasional use, why not a tp juice that gives 1, or maybe even 2, bonus tp/tick for a few minutes? (BLU might have to choose, or both kinds could stack like HP and MP drinks currently do.) Something you can use for special fights (BCNMs, DL, Limbus bosses, etc.) but that wouldn't be spammed in ordinary exp situations and change their balance. (At high levels 1 tp is worth at least 2 mp, so be careful with the amounts.)

Charged items that gave TP (either directly, or by a Regain effect) would be another possible alternative, although having multiple copies of a charged item can circumvent the reuse timer. A substantial wait-after-equip timer could restrict swapping in several of the item in rapid succession. If you have to put the item on, wait 5 minutes, and then activate it to gain TP gradually over another minute, I don't think it's going to be swapped in in the middle of a DL fight.

Clearly, the medicated timer on i-wings indicates SE's concern about making it too easy to gain TP without fighting, and I don't think they're wrong to be concerned. But there are situations (outside of ordinary exp or areas full of non-boss mobs) where you don't need the instant power of i-wings but it would be nice to be able to gain some tp gradually over a few minutes.


Finally, returning to the original topic, the problem with designing SCH merits is... they don't need anything. As much as, or even more so than, RDM. You have to give them *something* to merit, but any substantial addition to the job's capability envelope would easily overpower an already very powerful and versatile job.