3/10 patch changes to scholar

[MrMageo]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

Im currious to know why only RDM was targeted then as a nullified refresher with Sublimation, BRD can stack 3/MP a tick, Evokers Roll works,. So Why only RDM if my Hypothesis is so outrageous please give me one of your own.

Im not trying to turn this into a RDM benifits thread i simply answered a question with why i thought they did that. RDM was heavily included in my speculation because the effect of Sublimation effects the RDM's Refresh only. If it was to make PT's devoid of having a refresher why not take BRD/COR out of the mix too?


(FTR if you read my post carefully you will see i said While Sublimation is UP RDM will have extra time. I did not imply cutting refresh off entirely. Nor did I imply cutting haste off entirely, By having a WHM/RDM backline (again) spliting haste is easiy done. You take my words out of context. Or maybe ill just start Typing in BOLD #7 font so you can see more clearly)

[Ellipses]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

Im currious to know why only RDM was targeted then as a nullified refresher with Sublimation, BRD can stack 3/MP a tick, Evokers Roll works,. So Why only RDM if my Hypothesis is so outrageous please give me one of your own.

From a programming perspective, it's likely easier to reuse an existing status type (Refresh) than to create a new one. Since Sublimation targets one player, like Refresh, it is possibly also easier to use that status type than to use one taken by a full-party buff that doesn't currently have to check if any other effect is in place.

In other words, Ballad and Evoker's Roll land as long as you're in range. There's no checking to see if a player has any other effect. Refresh currently does check that, since you can't have Refresh (the spell) and Juice going at once. Since it's easier to reuse an existing status, and they have a status that's already checking for existing buffs, it's easiest to just stick it in with that.

SE doesn't always test everything thoroughly enough, or correctly gauge the player response to changes. I wouldn't be surprised if they made Sublimation and Refresh stack in a future update.

[Ziero]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

Im currious to know why only RDM was targeted then as a nullified refresher with Sublimation, BRD can stack 3/MP a tick, Evokers Roll works,. So Why only RDM if my Hypothesis is so outrageous please give me one of your own.

Im not trying to turn this into a RDM benifits thread i simply answered a question with why i thought they did that. RDM was heavily included in my speculation because the effect of Sublimation effects the RDM's Refresh only. If it was to make PT's devoid of having a refresher why not take BRD/COR out of the mix too?

To keep Rdm/Sch from being ridiculously overpowered? Rdm are already the 'endless MP Battery' of this game, something Brd and Cor will never be. Refresh and Convert IN ADDITION to Sublimation would have meant a Rdm would have an overflowing abundance of MP to the point of it being near absurd.

Either that or it's just a glitch.

(FTR if you read my post carefully you will see i said While Sublimation is UP RDM will have extra time. I did not imply cutting refresh off entirely. Nor did I imply cutting haste off entirely, By having a WHM/RDM backline (again) spliting haste is easiy done. You take my words out of context. Or maybe ill just start Typing in BOLD #7 font so you can see more clearly)

I do read your posts carefully, and you keep posting how these abilities and the haste 'nerf' somehow give Rdm a lighter work load. But they don't. Sublimation *shouldn't* be active when refresh is availible because Refresh is better. If people are popping Sublimation inbetween refreshes and actually getting good MP out of it, that means they're going a *long* time without that refresh. And the haste cap change had *zero* effect on a Rdm's casting of Haste because the average player, especially in a Merit situation, will not be reaching that 80% haste cap.

So in the end, there has been *no* change in a Rdm's casting habits because Mages will still want refresh and melees will still want haste. These changes were made to make it so these mage classes can work more efficiantly without a Rdm, not so Rdms can cast less spells. Because in the end, getting a Rdm's buffs is still more efficiant.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

We've already had our ideas of why Refresh does not stack with Sublimation, please listen and consider these thigns:

• Sublimation + Refresh + Convert would make RDM/SCH incredibly overpowered.
• The system may consider Sublimation as Refresh. The update didn't address this so we can only assume at this point that SE must have decided the fact RDMs would have exploited the hell out of Refresh + Sublimation + Convert.
• Evoker's Roll and Ballad are different forms or Refresh, SE would have to totally re-engineer the way ALL songs and Rolls function to exempt them from sublimation. Phantom Rolls are affected by job presence and varying values. The potency of songs are determined by skill and instruments. Altering how BRD and COR work to make RDMs feel better would be the most stupid idea ever.
• RDMs are much, much, much more common than BRDs or CORs.
• Solutions: RDM could sub /BRD or /SCH users could just not use Sublimation with RDM present.

Welcome to RDM's first real job limitation. The very first sub that doesn't work 100% with RDM's versatility. SMN has only had /WHM for YEARS and you've had WHM, BLM, BRD, DRK, WAR, NIN, PLD, BLU, DNC to play with. PLD's options grew by ONE subjob in this expansion and expanded to two in ToA (/NIN). BRD was pretty much /WHM or /NIN, but now /SCH is viable.

The most spoiled job in the game is doing the most complaining right now.

Be happy for the other jobs, a little more freedom and versatility is a good thing.

Except to those that use Refresh as thier excuse to do anything they want.

And consider this:

There are stretches in this game where finding a RDM, BRD or COR is absolute, utter hell, especially so at 49-55. I'm there right now at it SUCKED before this update, now SCHs have Dispel at these levels and Sublimation. That's a big help for a lot of people to get through these levels. I've seen both sides of it - going through those levels as BRD, RDM or COR was a breeze. It is hell if you're a tank or melee or even a healer.

And that's just one example out of many.

[MrMageo]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

I am not debating the efficency, but if a SCH or /SCH pops sublimation while I am in a party i will either 1 lose the MP i spent on him if he pops it early or 2 lose the MP and get no effect. Im not in control of what other players do. If i had 6 consoles and was using them all i would be able to refreshll the time. The fact is Sublimation over writes Refresh, and it is now the operators responsibility to decide if they want refresh or not.

I agree it is designed to allow a party to operate without a RDM which is good for me because i personally dont like to main heal. The fact is however, with this ability RDM's casting load in theory can be lightened, while not in practice. If someone is using Sublimation while i am i the party i will not be casting refresh on them because it is fruitless, and there for cutting cast time.

As for the haste thing I posted it so i could find out what the haste floor is now, It's 80% which means I still cast haste, big whoop I do it now anyhow. The haste cast reduction is the same with the possibility of WHM and SMN comming to the party they both have haste spells that can help spread the cost and casting loads from me.

As for SCH's sublimation, how ever you cut it, at the moment if it is on then yes it does reduce my casting because I cant cast on them. That was what the Question was and that was my answer. Im sorry you dont feel the same way about It, but since we are a day into the Update, like me you will have to wait and see. Until then i will take each situation as it comes.


I am not complaining about it at all i offered someone my speclation on why they didnt stack. Im not complaining if i don't have to cast while said effect is on. Im not complaining i may share the backline with a whm who will cut my haste castng down. Your generic complaints about me trying to put a RDM spin on things seem to be the only complaints on this topic. I simply answered a question in my own view, based on an educated guess, using variable hypothsees. Im not trying to say oh sweet RDM dosent have to cast ever again. Nor am i saying GDI /sch wont work for me thats BS, now im never going to get an invite because bla blah blah.

Im very happy SCH got this ability because now i wont be hounded as much. Im very happy SCH got this ability because other mage jobs needed some way of MP regeneration out side of me. If im kiting a mob im not pausing to refresh a WHM because it wore. Its a win win situation for RDM if used properly. However the onesided refresh is gawd crowd is out in full force on this.

[Callisto]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

Welcome to RDM's first real job limitation. The very first sub that doesn't work 100% with RDM's versatility. SMN has only had /WHM for YEARS and you've had WHM, BLM, BRD, DRK, WAR, NIN, PLD, BLU, DNC to play with.

You forgot /RNG.








Really, it's sweet in Campaign Battle, lol.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

You forgot /RNG.

Really, it's sweet in Campaign Battle, lol.

I was just hitting the major ones, I only use manly bows

[Callisto]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

I was just hitting the major ones, I only use manly bows

Just wait til I have my Mighty Bow, lol.


Back on topic, it looks like w/ the AF body SCH can basically hit A skill level, tack on merits, torque, earring, and Merciful Cape and their easily sitting at 300+ skill, and with Vicious Mufflers, this may sound laughable but SCH/DRK might be a fantastic pseudo-BLM, Tier 4 nukes, Stun, good Dark Magic Skill, and a fat chunk of MAB pieces available, although the lack of MAB1 from not being /RDM would hurt a bit, and boosted Abs spells to boot.

[MrMageo]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

ya SCH has really become a jack of all trades job, and a true Jack of all trades as it can be good at all. I always looked to lvl sch to 75 due to its sheer versatility but the pre update SCH was lacking. Now thanks to all the boosts to SCH I have found my next 75 job. I can be a happy caster or a melee mage I like that idea.

[Callisto]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

Well, if it's truly a jack-of-all-trades job then there's only one thing left for me to do...start building my SCH melee set! Gotta find a way to use Vorpal on it...

Edit: Oh good god, highest skill is a C+ lol...

[Ziero]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

Well, if it's truly a jack-of-all-trades job then there's only one thing left for me to do...start building my SCH melee set! Gotta find a way to use Vorpal on it...

Edit: Oh good god, highest skill is a C+ lol...

If it's any indication as to how bad their melee is

...their AF weapon is a scroll.

[MrMageo]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

How is that anyhow, Ive been getting reports from LS SCH's that Klimaform + Helix in weather etc. (pretty much anything to max the potential) Is doing 1000+ DMG on a regular basis. Even had one reprot a 1500 off a MB with it, may be exagerated but I am intrigued if true thats basically an AM1

pudding camp ftr.

[Callisto]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

If it's any indication as to how bad their melee is

...their AF weapon is a scroll.

I kind of laughed at DNC's AF weapon being a Chakram when they have a C in Throwing also, but at the same time at lvl 20 I can't afford a Platoon Disc and wished like hell that I had a ranged weapon for pulling.

Then again if they gave DNC a Dagger for AF, I really don't know what they could have made that wasn't an exact copy of BRD's Paper Knife.

[Luna]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

How is that anyhow, Ive been getting reports from LS SCH's that Klimaform + Helix in weather etc. (pretty much anything to max the potential) Is doing 1000+ DMG on a regular basis. Even had one reprot a 1500 off a MB with it, may be exagerated but I am intrigued if true thats basically an AM1

pudding camp ftr.

1000-1500 inst that a bit much? I mean since helix's are DoT based on initial dmg that means that the dmg per tick it would do would be betwene 1000-1500 that seems a bit over exaggerated? dont you think?

[Callisto]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

I belive he meant total over the course of the spell's DoT duration.