Flamers against Samurai?

[eL shadnaka]

Main problem with RNG TP gain is that they might get TP quickly.....but they're also much more likely to miss the WS than a SAM is. Accurate Sidewinder is 200%+ TP I believe. SAM on the other hand doesn't need extra TP to hit consistantly with WS. Just thought I'd throw that in.

[JediSange]

Aye. First off, no RNG can make as much as a good SAM. That is pretty much a fact. The only way they MIGHT stand a chance is with Krakens Club. Even if they match us in TP, we only need 100. They need 200+. Mind you, RNG WSs out-damage ours... but we've already been thru this -- SAMs aren't suppose to out-dmg RNGs.

[kujo412]

rng ws outdamage ours? when did this happen? <_<?

their shots outdamage ours by a fair amount, but ws? been a long time since i've seen rng ws for more than i have. like.. pre-yukikaze.

[Kayoto]

Originally posted by kujo412
rng ws outdamage ours? when did this happen? <_<?

their shots outdamage ours by a fair amount, but ws? been a long time since i've seen rng ws for more than i have. like.. pre-yukikaze.

I think they're talking about those.. "SAM/WAR" people... Rare as they are, anyhow. =p

[little ninja]

back in my drk days i used to always outdamage the sam. as for tp. there were plenty of times i was waiting on the sam to gain tp. but of course your talking about someone who wore 2 sniper rings, haubergeon+1, royal knight mufflers, the royal knight pants lvl 55. assault earrings spike earring, royal gaurd collar. lightining bow, af feet, an head an vasagoo scythe. so you are talking major acc str an atk. vs a sam in full af an some str/dex ring.. those were always the sams i pted with. so for my case. i as the drk was always better then them.

rng is a strong class an yes they build tp fast. but you have to wate for them to hit the 200 before they have a chance of even connecting with a weapon skill. an even then they will miss a great deal of the time. most duel weild to hawkers knife, so they also gain tp from there little pokes, an arrows. where the same relies on the katana.

so here i sit now the ninja. i can care less who is the better of the dd class. i once did care. thus why i took so much time to become the absolute best drk for those lvls. an besides all that i still had so much trouble getting into pts. nothing like being 8 lvls lower then other jobs, an having more str. dex then them.

THE BETTER GEARED YOU ARE. THE BETTER YOU WILL BE COMPARED TO THE GUY NEXT TO YOU..

[dimsum86]

waiting for the sam to catch up with TP because he just finished chaining with the nin / war / pld tank and the drk is just waiting for the meditate to complete 5 seconds to get the sam back to 130-40% tp to chain with the drk that is waiting impatiently because the sam just finished chaining with the pld / nin / war before the drk built up enough tp to even spam his "TP: 100% TP 100%! ? yeah, happened plenty to me too.

on a serious note, i've out tped rangers all the time.... i just realized that they gain tp so fast, but i am always ahead in tp by 5-10 seconds before they catch up.

To me, I can sc with the tank and the other dd, but alot of the time, the pt is too ignorant to make use of it. ~_~. Happened alot to me, those are usually the crappy parties. I get about 150-200% before the thf is usually ready again to use sata ws, that is without using meditate. And this is why i like warrior or ninja tanks. They can accumulate tp at a much better rate than plds. Buuuut, this isn't a pld/nin/war topic, so i'll leave it at that.

[Gryff]

rng cant out tp a samurai?

sorry but stop repeating the same sentence when you obviously have a biased opinion, and what holds true for one level range doesn't hold true for others.

Rangers at level 30 get barrage, the number of shots in barrage increases as you level, up to 5 shots, rangers can get back 100%tp with certain weapons and 60-80% normally.
This ability is on a 5 minute timer

Meditate is on a 3 minute timer, but rangers get tp more quickly excluding meditate, and in practice it seems like rangers are the quicker at gaining tp overall.

Not only that rangers have daggers between shots, to gain a little more tp, if a samurai tries using a bow they have GK between shots ; ;

This isn't to say ranger is a superior job yada yada, because it isn't true, a ranger cant WS barrage WS and expect to live if the monster is still alive, and they cant make two skillchains for bursts unless they have a samurai with them, or a non-standard party config.

vs HNM, samurai can do some great damage, the multiplying stat on all samurai WS is strength, sata gives you the gauranteed hit, so just bomb your strength out and you can do some really really nice damage, not up to ranger levels ( in terms of dot ) , but ranger is the strongest melee DD in the game, again ( except in the minds of 12 year olds ) - that doesn't make ranger a better job.

Play whatever is fun for you, but keep in mind your not exping for a reason, it should be fun, but at the same time you should be exping with some goals in mind and not exping just to exp, or exping with some stupid combination just because you are masochistic.

[dimsum86]

not all opinions posted are biased. i was simply stating the facts based on my battles. What you're doing is theorizing. One thing i noticed was that meditate doesn't give you 1 more ws... it usually gives you 100-140% tp, but when timed correctly, if usually gives you about 50-60% tp left over after the ws. Meditate isn't an instant 100-140% tp gainer, it gives you it per 1-2 seconds. So, if i timed it correctly, i would get about 60% tp and just need about 3-4 shots in before i can chain again. I'm not sure if i'm doing it correctly, but that's what i do and i always get tp faster.

and daggers don't always give tp, a lot of the time, rangers hit for 0 dmg, giving them 0 tp. But you're right about the level thingy.

I didn't mean to sound biased, but what i am saying is what i experience.

On a side note, i don't think anyone said samurai's out dmg rangers in terms of dot.

[Gryff]

check my sig and tell me i'm not talking from experience :-]
I've partied with a wide variety of all jobs with varying degrees of equipment quality, what I'm saying is from my experience and is in no way biased for or against samurai or ranger. The lack of objectivity from the thread starter and a few other people is why I posted on this thread, they are allowing the bashing of their job by morons to create this sort of thread.

[MAK]

Also RNG have a consitant damage output. There attacks dont very at all, if you hit the monters for 120 the rest of your ranged attacks will be about 118-122. SAM, WAR, DRK etc all seem to have a very odd damage output where they hit lets say for 100 the next few attacks can change a lot, 90-110 etc. RNG is more consitant damage, more accurate and at higher lvs accuacy is no problem even on sidewidner/slugshot etc. RNG gets a passive 30 rng acc and can get +90 rng acc and +30 agi. To say SAM matches in damage as a RNG is just wrong. RNG DoT and burst damage is much greater then a SAM, well any melee at that. Barrage not only can get over 120 TP but adds tons of damage, that counts for the 2min timer from meditate. Yes it can also miss but its pretty rare with as much acc and agi as i listed.

RNG is more of a "kill it before it kills you" job where WAR,SAM,DRK go for DoT and /THF for damage and hate. I'm sure most SAM lovers wont agree with what most of what ive said about SAM being no where near the power of a RNG but go check it for yourself, not just 1 small battle but a party of about 3-4 hrs. RNG DoT will outclass SAM/DRK/WAR by far. Nothing can out damage a RNG on HNM not counting mages so dont even try there.

[dimsum86]

Again, what's the point of posting on here again Mak? No one here in this topic thread said we do more damage than rangers in terms of DoT. Only one person said we can do more damage on a sa/ta weaponskill, and looking at Silverbloods screenshots, it looks kind of true.

Stop posting stuff you already said before. It's like you are trying to make us fools because we said we out tp rangers, and then you change our words to we outdamage rangers.

Are bullets 24% tp ea? didn't know that.

[Gryff]

Originally posted by dimsum86
Again, what's the point of posting on here again Mak? No one here in this topic thread said we do more damage than rangers in terms of DoT. Only one person said we can do more damage on a sa/ta weaponskill, and looking at Silverbloods screenshots, it looks kind of true.

Stop posting stuff you already said before. It's like you are trying to make us fools because we said we out tp rangers, and then you change our words to we outdamage rangers.

Are bullets 24% tp ea? didn't know that.

regardless of the damage, which is pointless because the jobs have different purposes, TP goes off the delay, which involves the weapon and the ammo, so 120% tp would require a slow slow gun/bow.

[Nodachi]

Originally posted by JediSange
Aye. First off, no RNG can make as much as a good SAM. That is pretty much a fact. The only way they MIGHT stand a chance is with Krakens Club. Even if they match us in TP, we only need 100. They need 200+. Mind you, RNG WSs out-damage ours... but we've already been thru this -- SAMs aren't suppose to out-dmg RNGs.

Have you ever actually seen a RNG with a krakken's club? It's such a waste lol, even with madrigal on they miss like literally 80% of the time on EXP mobs. So really not sure Krakken's would help them out in this situation.

[dimsum86]

Yeah, i know that with more delay you get more tp. I didn't actually know it gave 24% tp per bullet. I wasn't being sarcastic, lol.

[ZQM]

Originally posted by Kayoto
but in the time it takes a DRK or WAR with GAxe to get 300% TP I could have done 3-4 1k+ SATA Gekko/Kasha. =p

I feel bad for you that you have to party with such bad WARs. :3

On low mobs (VT-IT, Weak HNM, high NM's, NM's for God pops, ect), If both start at 0% TP: 2-believable; 3-streching it; 4-Your WAR needs some better gear.

Aggressor, Double Attack, and the gear available to WAR allows for quick TP gain. I'm not saying faster then a SAM or a RNG, but putting us on the same boat as a DRK is a slap in the face.

Gods, SAM will do two 300% WSs and maybe an extra one in the 100-200 range if the fight drags on for some reason, WAR does a 300% + 100-150%. However, a WAR will also be doing better DoT (Aggressor, Double attack, yadda yadda yadda). Main thing here is skillchains though to exploit BLM damage. SAM shouldn't be spamming WSs, he should be participating in the skillchains.

On long fights though (KB, Kirin, Aspid*, Fafhogg), SAM reihns supreme on damage over WAR. However, in most of these instances, I think the WAR is better off kiting (KB/Kirin) or strait up tanking (Aspid). Long fights like these (Either from high HP/DEF (Kirin/KB) or stupid hide-in-my-shell-like-a-pussy moves (Aspid) are when a WAR's supreme Enmity and Utsusemi can really show it's use.