Before you start down the wrong path...

[Tidane]

Well...you should. Why not just understand it now? What is confusing to you? I'd give a general explantation but I'm working on a report right now, so it'd be easier to give specifics.

[Katsumoto]

Well, I somewhat figured from experience would be a little more suitable and easier. I've understood much more by reading these boards than I used to know.


Can't learn how to drive a car by watching it drive down the road....

[Cyrus99]

I gotta agree with Nevhar on this one here. I've been facing the same problems. I just can't deal the damage that the DRK, WAR, RNG, and MNK are dealing. My answer is going to be /RNG. Hopefully this will take me off the "suck" list and with some pricey equip (merman's gorget, 2 sniper's, war bow+1) maybe I will be able to hold my own on the battlefield. But it is very depressing to know that all the other jobs are getting very strong weaponskills in the future (Asuran, Cross Reaper/Spiral Hell, Full Break, Impulse) and I look at my GK and go meh. Hopefully Gekko will help out at 65, but getting to 65 just might break me to pieces. SAM needs a killer ws at 60~ without having to borrow other classes moves (penta, sidewinder).

Things'll get better I keep telling myself. Good news is I make about 95% of my parties though. If I suck... I won't get kicked outta the party hahaha

[Nodachi]

Originally posted by davidmmmm9

Maybe I should include the attack from my food in my search comment as well XD str+14 accuracy+34 attack+134
oh wait, I should include beserk as well XD attack+221 wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Laugh it up funny boy, I put my food in parenthesis making sure they know what i'm talking about. And if you try the double attack +1 a bit more i think you may like it more than the extra attack.

I really don't get why so many sam wear Kote. I think they do it as a status thing and feel better about when others see them with it on. I too had them. . . a couple times over, owning 3 pair at once O_O but after PTing with both setups won't go back to them. I duno to each his own but i'm saving gil and imo doing more damage in total.

[Nodachi]

Originally posted by Ipwnzuall!!!111
Yeah... those are some good points. How do you feel about needing all that expensive equip just to break even with DRKs, Nodachi?

I guess I can see how the Rice Balls would be more effective at some point in the game when the ATT difference wasn't too substantial, and the DoubleAtt +1 more than made up for it, but I'm still thinking that ATT+20 and then a percentage boost, rather than a linear boost of 45, is going to get a way higher output of damage as the gap widens.

Of course, I guess you also have to keep in mind that at some point, extra ATT does virtually zilch, and DoubleAttack+ would probably be the next thing you'd look for.

P.S. (edit)
Does anyone know about the Shogun Riceballs (the HQ version of Tonosamas)? Do they have better effects?

I obviously feel it's kinda weak that in order to keep up with and or out shine other melee classes we have to bust our balls to get the better equips. But in turn i feel that getting better equips is apart of leveling. I mean i personally level so that i can obtain better equipment and for some reason or another enjoy earning it.

And yeah the Shogun rice balls idealy are incredible. Problem is gona be finding them =\ they last twice as long, and instead of +1 double attack they have a whopping +8 according to this guide. Maybe there are some with a guild skill high enough to make them but they've only sold twice within the AH history on Ragnarok =\

[knell]

someone really needs to write a script to filter battle logfiles and average out the damage done by each melee hourly

[Enichi]

yah.... have to agree with nodachi on the tonosama riceballs...... noticed my overall dmg was more then with meat kabob, and due to the double attack +1 my tp gain was faster.

about the +1 riceballs

on kujata, theres an occasional appearance of a shogun riceball usually going at 3-5k a piece..... usually gets bought buy a high lvl sam when im putting in my bid.... so i havent tried em yet...... actually consider lvling cooking skill, hoping that i'll get lucky and craft one of those babies.... but thats along way to go heh.....

about sams ws

i like tachi: yukikaze decent dmg with added affect... to bad doesnt make all that great of a renkei, i believe nodachi posted pics of him doing tachi: gekko the lvl 65 sam ws..... and another note about those lvl 50-60 kick ass ws that all the other classes have....... sure there nice but they have there problems too..... penta thrust makes poor renkeis and so far how i see it, only good for low lvl farming, sidewinder is awesome but has a high miss rate, and needs to be the starter i believe inorder to make a lvl 2 renkei, gullo is great but if its the finisher only makes lvl 1 renkei, again same problem with sidewinder on renkei creation....... really nice ws so far is from raging fist, dancing edge, and vorpal blade, insane dmg on dancing edge with sneak/trick combo and finishes for a lvl 2 renkei, decent dmg on vorpal blade and also a finisher for a lvl2 renkei, same with raging fist...... but again a problem with these ws is that the weapon its on has a slow tp build........ except for raging fist heh. How i see it, all the ws on every class is balanced to a certain extent..... u give up something inorder to recieve something in return....... guess what im trying to say is..... stop ranting about ws being unfair heh :sweat: just cause u dont have a huge multi hitter/huge dmg dealer ws mean your weapon sucks. Giving sams a 3+ hitter ws on a g. katana would be unbalanced..... and if that did happen your gonna see alot of sams just spamming that ws...... worst enough theres penta spammers out there... heh

[Epheka]

I wish I was on the Kujata server could I have that Items?

[Russta]

Originally posted by knell
someone really needs to write a script to filter battle logfiles and average out the damage done by each melee hourly

There is a Japanese program that does that.

[red_flare_graf]

We r also forgetting the tonosama riceball's add +3 dex. How many ppl bought the Lightning bow for 250-300k just for +2 dex? I personally think hitting the targets more often is better than damaging them.

[Weezingpipes]

I obviously feel it's kinda weak that in order to keep up with and or out shine other melee classes we have to bust our balls to get the better equips. But in turn i feel that getting better equips is apart of leveling. I mean i personally level so that i can obtain better equipment and for some reason or another enjoy earning it.

I do agree there is a certain satisfaction in getting better equipment. I've always made a large effort to have good equipment along the way. Hell I was one of the only melee to have 2 sniper rings under level 55 (that I met at least), and it does help. It's just kind of depressing to see the people my level, know they are worse equipped with under level/less than useful subs and know they still outperform me, or rather that I need that quality of equipment to keep up. If those other people had the same quality equipment, wouldn't be able to keep up anyway.

How i see it, all the ws on every class is balanced to a certain extent..... u give up something inorder to recieve something in return....... guess what im trying to say is..... stop ranting about ws being unfair heh

Not really. Some really are just better than others. When I got Wheeling Thrust I was like sweet, I can make Light renkai now, and then I used it. Rather sad, averages 120-150 damage at 100% tp, barely any higher at 200+, and 1 hit. So sure, I can start a very damaging renkai, but of course a RNG or WAR could fill the same slot as I can, start with a more damaging WS (hell I imagine even Hexa Strike does more damage) and still deal more damage anyway. Not that I mind RNG being more damaging than me, its just since 60 warriors have outclassed me anyway with similar quality equipment. Cross Reaper blows away my damage too. I'm not totally sure what I am trading off here.

just cause u dont have a huge multi hitter/huge dmg dealer ws mean your weapon sucks. Giving sams a 3+ hitter ws on a g. katana would be unbalanced

Well that is sort of the point. Damage on a weapon is a far more significant factor than delay on a weapon, delay basically just decides how much tp you get per hit, so since weapon damage is fixed, WS really do dictate the quality of the weapon - even if the weapon is lower damage as long as it can produce damaging WS, then that is a fair trade off. I'm not sure how giving Samurai a 3+ hit WS is unbalanced really, if its like Skewer it could be consistant damage without being excessively high, allowing them to contribute additional damage output between skillchains. Hell most Samurai WS aren't damaging enough to warrant being a finishing WS. They start skillchains 9/10 times. The 65 WS is sort of a downside too considering they can only really renkai with NIN/PLD unless you make a 3 man skillchain. Not sure how Tachi : Gekko damage is though so I cannot comment. Thing is about level 3 renkai, WAR can make either light or dark renkai, so can DRK depending on weapon. Jobs like DRG and SAM are stuck at 65. MNK RNG and THF is stuck too of course, but they don't have crap WS at that level, often renkai is based around using those. Guess I'll see what the quest WS hold.

[davidmmmm9]

+3 dex is practically nothing

[Terron]

Jobs like DRG and SAM are stuck at 65. MNK RNG and THF is stuck too of course, but they don't have crap WS at that level, often renkai is based around using those. Guess I'll see what the quest WS hold.

Monks' lvl 65 WS dragon kick has the ability to do a light renkei...so I wouldn't really say monks are stuck.

In regards to the topic, I'd say that SAM is a very useful class, just overlooked by most people because of steriotypes. If I'm looking for people to invite into a party, I look for a SAM, not because I want an uber damage dealer, but because I want someone who is always ready to renkei and can renkei with everyone else. If a renkei chain goes bad (as it often does in my parties :sweat: ) a good SAM can use the appropriate WS to renkei with the last person.

From what I've heard, the quest WS for SAM is very good...but not on par with the other quest WS. At least it can cause a light or dark renkei.

[Weezingpipes]

Monks' lvl 65 WS dragon kick has the ability to do a light renkei...so I wouldn't really say monks are stuck.

Yea...I said that. Stuck = you can only do 1 type, Light or Darkness. DRK can do Light with Spinning Slash, the greatsword 225 skill, Darkness with Cross Reaper, the scythe 225, WAR can use axe for light, great axe for darkness before the quest WS. Get it? ;p

[Terron]

Yea...I said that. Stuck = you can only do 1 type, Light or Darkness. DRK can do Light with Spinning Slash, the greatsword 225 skill, Darkness with Cross Reaper, the scythe 225, WAR can use axe for light, great axe for darkness before the quest WS. Get it? ;p

Sorry, I missinterpreted.