Tier 2 merits?

[Mezlo]

So rdm dinged 75 this weekend and I have 4 merit points saved up. What tier 2 spells are a must have and what order should I get them in, in order of importance?

Thanks!

[Malacite]

Re: Tier 2 merits?

I believe the consensus is on 5/5 Slow II and then depending on what you do, either Phalanx II (however SCH & SMN can already AoE phalanx) Paralyze II (from what I've been told by many 75 RDM's however, it's all or nothing with this spell and even then it's not much stronger than Para 1) Dia III or Bio III.

Blind II is just plain crap. Slow II is really, really potent at level 5 however (stronger than Hojo: Ni) and while maybe not useful in every scenario, Dia 3 and Bio 3 can have a pretty big impact. Bio 3 is best used with /SCH IMO since Dark Arts will raise your skill from 200~256 which means more DoT from the Bio (this can make or break some fights where you need to keep the target from regenerating or it has some kind of shield up i.e. Hydra)

[Truece]

Re: Tier 2 merits?

So rdm dinged 75 this weekend and I have 4 merit points saved up. What tier 2 spells are a must have and what order should I get them in, in order of importance?

The spells that you unlock will depend a lot on how you answer this question:

What are you planning on doing with your 75 RDM?

If you're looking to solo stuff, you'll merit differently than if you are planning on being a RDM in an EGLS.

[Mezlo]

Re: Tier 2 merits?

Endgame acitvities as well as campaign / solo. I would say mainly solo but I'd want stuff necessary to fill in at endgame events.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Tier 2 merits?

Short version:

Slow II is your must have. At least Lv.1, but preferably 2+. If you're always find yourself in the tank party, or if you _are_ the tank, Lv.5 Phalanx II should be strongly considered, as it is good for anything fast hitting. Paralyze II Lv.3+ is what to aim for if going to unlock it. If your LS does zerg fights a lot, Dia III Lv.2+, the higher the better. Bio III for temporarily lowering attack, Lv.2; for soloing/kiting, Bio III Lv.5.


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Long version:

Paralyze II at 3+ is pretty potent with a MND build, but unlocking it or not is a personal option, IMO. I think Slow II can beat Hojo: Ni even at Lv.2, if stack enough MND, and willl have easier time landing it as a mage geared RDM than as a DD or tank geared NIN, usually. Slow II the one thing every RDM75 should unlock and hopefully get to Lv.2+.

For Campaign Battle, Slow II is pretty much the only group two merit you'd want. If the critter is beating on you, Ice Spikes will be your paralyze, unless you're the /NIN type using Utsusemi. (I prefer /DRK myself.)

For non-zerg endgame fights, I think anytime you can land a Paralyze II better than one out of two tries and it doesn't wear off in like 15 seconds, it's valuable. I only have it at Lv.2, but recommend either to leave it alone or get it to Lv.3+ unless there are good reasons. Phalanx II with full merit beats out the native Phalanx, I think, and is a nice additional tool to help protect tank/self. ( Even just at Lv.2, though, Phalanx II, helpful in Salvage before the MNKs get Utsusemi unlocked, though I'm not sure if that's endgame or not.)

For zerged fights, Dia III is a RDM's best merit, and should be at Lv.2+. Even in semi-zerged situations, it's quite valuable. The more your LS relies on melee power, the higher you should bring up Dia III's level. (Lv.2 is sufficient for merit parties, IMO.)

Full Bio III is a nice source of DoT for certain type of solo/kited fights. Even a Lv.1 or 2 Bio III (along with a strong Paralyze II) is nice for tanks taking a beating from a MNK type critter that has SP'ed, though that alone won't save any PLD--better have that Sentinel/Invincible and/or Reprisal ready. Depends on what you want to use it for, have it a Lv.1~2, or 5, but not in between.

Blind II is really nice for working with THF, NIN, and maybe DNC tank setup for that. That's not endgame, campaign, or solo, though, so pretty much useless for the OP.

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[Seijurohiko]

Re: Tier 2 merits?

As mentioned, Slow II is the most useful overall. Even with just 1 merit, it will override/nullify haste effects (saving you a dispel on caster mobs/mobs with haste buffs), and give you an improved slow effect with a nice, reliable duration. I personally put 5/5 merits here since I do a good bit of /nin solo/tanking, and feel that a strong, reliable slow effect is the most important debuff.

Dia III is really the only other tier II merit spell that can be useful with just a single merit. Useful for any zerging strat such as Kirin, Vrtra, King Vinegarroon, Bahamut v.2, Dynamis Lord, etc, as well as merit parties. Extra merits can be nice to increase the duration (since most zergs last a few minutes), but it's still functional at 1 merit.

Para II is said to be extremely good with 4 or 5 merits. I personally had 2 and wasn't at all satisfied with the results. The main thing that I disliked was the duration of the spell. Same random duration as with para 1, often times lasting less than 60 seconds, but costing 6x as much MP to cast. I never parsed it out, but the proc rate didn't seem much different to me either. Again, that was with just 2 merits... I keep hearing that it is much better with 4 or 5.

Phalanx II is a good choice if you find yourself playing tank/support rdm often. Particularly in Salvage. Will want at least 2 or 3 merits here to get the duration up, otherwise you may end up losing more MP maintaining it than just tossing out an occasional cure III.

As far as casing it on yourself, I'm not sure it's really better. With 5 merits, and 300-324 skill (about as high as you'll ever see on RDM), it will mitigate 28 dmg with a 4 min duration. Phalanx 1 will also mitigate 28 dmg at that skill level, with a 3 min duration. Phalanx II cost 42 mp while Phalanx costs 21. Basically, you'd be spending twice as much mp for an extra one minute duration. With Composure in the mix, duration is mostly irrelevant since you'll be casting Refresh, Haste, and Phalanx together before canceling Composure.

Bio III and Blind II are both highly situational. Blind II is about on par with Kurayami: NI, pretty much relegating it to only being useful when duo/low manning with an evasion tank other than a nin (namely, a thf).

Bio III is mostly a solo spell, used almost solely for the extra dot over Bio II. While the extra -5% attack down can be a nice bonus, you really should not consider casting it for that purpose alone, particularly vs. HNM level stuff, where -5% attack will have such a small impact on the dmg dealt to your tank that a parser might not even pick it up. If you're using any kind of melee dmg at all, Dia (III) should be used instead of Bio.

Also, if you're using Bio III, chances are it will be on fights lasting well over 10 min, meaning 1 or 2 merits will be costing you a ton of mp considering it costs 54 mp, and only lasts 30 seconds for each merit. For Bio III, you need 4 merits minimum. And even then, it's still not very mp efficient.

[Malacite]

Re: Tier 2 merits?

Also, if you're using Bio III, chances are it will be on fights lasting well over 10 min, meaning 1 or 2 merits will be costing you a ton of mp considering it costs 54 mp, and only lasts 30 seconds for each merit. For Bio III, you need 4 merits minimum. And even then, it's still not very mp efficient.

Well, with Dark Arts that drops to 49 and the DoT is increased significantly if I'm not mistaken since you're raising your base skill from E (200 @75) to B+ (256)

[Mhurron]

Re: Tier 2 merits?

But would you be /sch when you're soloing?

[Seijurohiko]

Re: Tier 2 merits?

Well, with Dark Arts that drops to 49 and the DoT is increased significantly if I'm not mistaken since you're raising your base skill from E (200 @75) to B+ (256)

Still, with just 1 or 2 merits, that difference would be very small. The known tiers for Bio III are: 7 dmg/tic up to 210 dark skill, 8 dmg/tic 211-250, and 9 dmg/tic 251 and up.

Most 75 rdm who would bother meriting Bio III should be in the 211 tier, while /sch is required to reach the 251 tier, making the difference a mere 1 damge every 3 seconds. With 2 merits, Bio III only lasts 60 seconds, so 20 total "tics." So /sch would be adding an extra 20 dmg basically. I still don't think that offsets the fact that you'll be spending 49 mp every 60 seconds over the course of an extended fight to maintain Bio III at 2 merits.

Keep in mind, I'm not arguing against /sch. Anytime you're doing a kited/nuke style fight and can safely make use of /sch, you should. My main point is that Bio III needs 4 or 5 merits to be worthwile, /sch or not. The duration is just too short otherwise, and if you're going to blow MP spamming Bio III every 60 seconds, you'd pobably be just as well off spending it on Blizzard III instead.

But would you be /sch when you're soloing?

Despot, and maybe Ulli in sky are a couple I can think of where you might.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Tier 2 merits?

I feel it's worth mentioning that fully merited Paralyze II was less potent than Ice Spikes, a level 40 spell . . . but this was back when the cap on Group 2 Merits was 3 a piece. I'm not so sure if that holds so much now that it's possible to dump 5 Merits in to it, but it's definitely something to think about.

All of the following has basically been said already: whether or not you merit it is largely a personal choice with how you play Red Mage, and it's basically an all-or-nothing investment if you choose to do so. Definitely the first thing you want to do in this group in general is merit Slow II, though Dia III is right up there. Everything else is pretty much determined by how you play.

[Icemage]

Re: Tier 2 merits?

Bio III at 1 merit has its uses, actually. Because it has a relatively reliable duration, certain enemies like Wyrms (Tiamat, Jormungandr, Ouryu) which operate on a timer can be tick-damaged by a level 1 Bio III cast safely without running the risk of having it jeopardize a Sleep II. It's also useful for covering up someone's accidental Dia II on that HNM you need to cast Sleep on later...

Otherwise, I totally agree that it's one of those all-or-nothing type merits.


Icemage

[ShepardG]

Re: Tier 2 merits?

My plan:

I'm in an HNM shell right now, and I have 15x75 jobs, so I'm filling in random rolls from one minute to the next (think: bard roto, blm nuke, pld/nin, rdm/drk, mnk/nin for salvage, sam/whatever for assault,campagin,etc. Smn for burns, rdm/nin for KV kite party, the list goes on >< Dnc/nin for JoL...) but to be the most useful to myself and my friends i'm going with these in this order

1 Bio3
1 Slow2
1 Phalanx2
2 Slow2> 3>4
2 Phalanx2
1 Dia3
the final few i'm undecided. I know that Slow2 is just to damn usfull for pretty much any situation. and that Bio3 kiting can help myself and my friends when we have some spare time to lowman stuff
Phalanx 2 is one of those things that just make pally's feel better about themselves, and Dia3 is great for zergs. Paralyze I might unlock but having had it on my other character and 3 levels into it, it still .... is so iffy. I think para1 is just fine for most things even HNM's

[Callisto]

Re: Tier 2 merits?

]Late to the party a bit, but a couple of things that I think needed to be pointed out:

More merits in Slow II does not affect the actual cap of the spell, it just lessens the amount of MND needed to hit said cap, and adds a bit more accuracy to it. If you already have a strong dedicated MND build you can get by very well with only 2-3 merits in it.

I feel it's worth mentioning that fully merited Paralyze II was less potent than Ice Spikes, a level 40 spell . . . but this was back when the cap on Group 2 Merits was 3 a piece. I'm not so sure if that holds so much now that it's possible to dump 5 Merits in to it, but it's definitely something to think about.

It's true that it's less potent than Ice Spikes, but they are used independantly. If you're bloodtanking something as RDM, you use Ice Spikes, if not you use Paralyze(II), they have no bearing on each other at all.

Otherwise, like was mentioned, go off of what the other RDMs in your shell have/will plan to do. I typically have the strongest Enfeebling gear amongst the RDMs in my group, so I have 3 Para/Slow, 2 Blind, and 2 Phalanx, while some of my other shell members have higher Phalanx merits, so they get put in the tank party to handle that.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Tier 2 merits?

Pretty much always considered Paralyze II to be a complete waste of merits. Slow II 5/5 for sure, and then put at least one or two in Phalanx II and then fill in elsewhere. Pick either Dia or Bio III. Most RDMs merit Bio from what I remember, which is why I chose to go with Dia III.

Blind II is another waste of merits.

My merits were structured towards endgame and HNM fights, so I had 5/5 Slow II and capped Earth Magic Accuracy. Even with all that, you'll still need ES to reliably land Slow on mobs like Khimaira. Which is pure bullshit by the way, with capped gear and merit skill, but whatever.

[Icemage]

Re: Tier 2 merits?

One other use for Bio III I forgot to mention: Byakko. Anything that declaws that nasty fuzzball even a little bit is worthwhile (though obviously you can get by with Bio II just as well).


Icemage